Jonathan Paul Manziel
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What reputable spots are open until 02:00 Downtown?
Regardless of reputation, who here has ever "hung out" with Mom until the wee hours?
And did Oedipus invent the money sign?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What reputable spots are open until 02:00 Downtown?
Regardless of reputation, who here has ever "hung out" with Mom until the wee hours?
And did Oedipus invent the money sign?
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Long post that really says not a fucking thing.
Long post that really says not a fucking thing.
It says who was and who was not a bust among first round drafted QBs. I mean, did you like miss that? What were you looking for? Fairy dust?
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Here's another good sign for Johnny. Colin Cowherd says he will never last in the nfl. This is easily the 5th time cowherd has done this and he's been wrong every previous time. Most famously, he said Bama would knock him out of last year's game and win by 30+. They won 49-42 and manziel put 562 yards on them.
Johnny hears this. It motivates him. When he jits the field, he will desperately want to prove he can play.
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I dont get this post?
Theres a ton of Non red letter names on there.. Why assume Johnny is one of them and not one of the good ones?
I dont get this post?
Theres a ton of Non red letter names on there.. Why assume Johnny is one of them and not one of the good ones?
Again, you all seem to be missing the point. Nothing is assumed.....it merely points out the crapshoot nature of a first round draft pick QB.
Right.....we cannot assume that Johnny will be one of the red letter names.......nor can we assume....as you seem to....that he will not be one.
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Here's another good sign for Johnny. Colin Cowherd says he will never last in the nfl. This is easily the 5th time cowherd has done this and he's been wrong every previous time. Most famously, he said Bama would knock him out of last year's game and win by 30+. They won 49-42 and manziel put 562 yards on them.
Johnny hears this. It motivates him. When he jits the field, he will desperately want to prove he can play.
Here's another good sign for Johnny.......Colin Cowherd says he will never last in the nfl.....
Johnny hears this. It motivates him. When he jits the field, he will desperately want to prove he can play.
Ahhhh......THATS IT!!!
JFF will be great BECAUSE Colin Cowhead said something to motivate him.....
Brilliant!
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List the undrafted rookie qbs and you could make a great argument against Hoyer. Chill the fuck out until Johnny actually plays. He may be a bust or he may not be a bust.
That is the exact fucking point of my post. Did you not read? It is those clamoring for JFF who think he should play now and who think he is their savior that need to chill out until he actually plays. All I am saying is that history shows that a vast perecentage of QBs taken in the first round are busts......and that to be absolutey convinced that JFF will be on the positive side of that ledger is just ignoring history.
We're 7-4, and have a rookie qb in a great situation compared to Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr ect., who are on garbage teams. Shitty teams contribute a lot more towards a qb being a bust than is giving credit for
Possibly true. On the other hand sometimes a good QB can break his team out of their shittiness. Brady may be one of those guys, since you mentioned him.
. How do you think Tom Brady (although not a first rounder) would have turned out if he would've been the Brown's starter back in the early 2000s?
I don't know....how about hopping on Mr. Sherman's way back machine and have the Browns take him instead of Spergon Wynn.
Basically your post says, "Johnny may be a bust, so let's hope he's a bust." Quit bashing our rookie qb. Did you get beat up in high school or something? Are you one of those guys that pees in a stall and is mad at everyone?
Brady did not make the Patriots great. Look at their games from a season before and although they didn't have the best record almost every loss was within 3 points. Also a season before that they were 8-8. It was hardly a shitty team that was carried by a qb.
Basically your post says, "Johnny may be a bust, so let's hope he's a bust."
No, fucking dumbass. I am saying, Johnny may be a bust, but let's hope he isn't.
Quit bashing our rookie qb. Did you get beat up in high school or something? Are you one of those guys that pees in a stall and is mad at everyone?
You seem so familiar with these events. Must be the story or your life. Certainly not mine. This is stuff I would never even imagined. Apparently you didn't have to imagine them.
Brady did not make the Patriots great. Look at their games from a season before and although they didn't have the best record almost every loss was within 3 points. Also a season before that they were 8-8. It was hardly a shitty team that was carried by a qb.
The season before Brady took over as QB of the Pats, they were 5-11. Even the Browns who went lkie 2-14 or 3-13 beat them. I know, that is the first game I went to after they "came back". You clearly have no knowledge of NFL history.
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And as you go later into the rounds, more red would appear (if held to the same standards)
I did this for AP stats in HS based on QBR and round taken. There is a correlation. At least I think it was QBR, maybe we used something slightly different. Something that was pretty fair for determining"good" vs "bad"...
And as you go later into the rounds, more red would appear (if held to the same standards)
Sure, absolutely. I would never claim otherwise. It still just shows what a crapshoot taking a QB is.
I did this for AP stats in HS based on QBR and round taken. There is a correlation. At least I think it was QBR, maybe we used something slightly different. Something that was pretty fair for determining"good" vs "bad"...
Maybe "passer rating?
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So Gipper, your point is that some QBs have been taken in the first round, some of whom have been busts, some not, and JFF might fall in to either category? Because tautologies are tautologies...
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@everlastingxxx said:
I wouldnt put Drew Bledsoe as a bust.
You are absolutely right. I made a mistake when I listed him as a bust. I have corrected that.
#1st round QBs have much better odds vs undrafted free agent QBs at not being busts.
No doubt. But my point was to show that even 1st rounders are 50/50
BTW, anyone that would call Manziel a bust without him even starting a single game is lacking football knowledge.
It was not my intention to call him a bust, but to merely point out or concern that he could be and that we should not be surprised if he becomes one of the almost 50% of first rounders that do. You haven't been a Browns fan long enough. We are batting about 100% on the bust factor with our drafted QBs. So, optimism hasn't been rewarded for us.
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Archie Manning sucked
He was a bust. He never amounted to anything except he fathered Superbowl winning QB's
Archie Manning sucked
He was a bust. He never amounted to anything except he fathered Superbowl winning QB's
No, he was a good QB that played for lousy teams. Were you even alive when Archie Manning played?
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4 Continued. If you look at his demeanor that game, look at his face, he had no doubt what he was going to do. Call it cocky, call it confident. I call it crucial for a winning qb.
5. He has a good strong arm, not great but above average.
6. He's smart. He got 33 on the Wonderlic.
7. Ability to avoid bog hits. He rushed for 1700+ yards as a Frshman and rarely took a "killshot" hit.
He's so quick and sees the field so well that he manages to avoid big hits. He took a couple big hits his second year because he had to, which leads to number...
8. Competitiveness. I've never seen anybody want to win more than Johnny. The 2 big hits I remember from year two were two plays he was trying to win the game. Once at the Auburn goal line, and once on 4th and 7 when he ran up the middle for a first down. The guy LOVES competing. He will do whatever it takes to win.
But he's not 6' 4" 230, so people doubt him. Texas fans, Baylor fans, Alabama fans all told me he wouldn't make it through a second year in the sec. "He's too small, he parties too much, he only cares about himself. SEC defenses are gonna kill him." All proven wrong.
Will Johnny prove his NFL detractors wrong? I don't know. I think he will. I hope he will. I guarantee he is not gonna be a Ryan Leaf/Jamarcus Russell type bust, though. He will work hard to make Cleveland fans proud.
Sorry for this being 2 posts, accidentally hit post on the first one.
4 Continued. If you look at his demeanor that game, look at his face, he had no doubt what he was going to do. Call it cocky, call it confident. I call it crucial for a winning qb.
5. He has a good strong arm, not great but above average.
6. He's smart. He got 33 on the Wonderlic.
7. Ability to avoid bog hits. He rushed for 1700+ yards as a Frshman and rarely took a "killshot" hit.
He's so quick and sees the field so well that he manages to avoid big hits. He took a couple big hits his second year because he had to, which leads to number...
8. Competitiveness. I've never seen anybody want to win more than Johnny. The 2 big hits I remember from year two were two plays he was trying to win the game. Once at the Auburn goal line, and once on 4th and 7 when he ran up the middle for a first down. The guy LOVES competing. He will do whatever it takes to win.
But he's not 6' 4" 230, so people doubt him. Texas fans, Baylor fans, Alabama fans all told me he wouldn't make it through a second year in the sec. "He's too small, he parties too much, he only cares about himself. SEC defenses are gonna kill him." All proven wrong.
Will Johnny prove his NFL detractors wrong? I don't know. I think he will. I hope he will. I guarantee he is not gonna be a Ryan Leaf/Jamarcus Russell type bust, though. He will work hard to make Cleveland fans proud.
Sorry for this being 2 posts, accidentally hit post on the first one.
Your two posts make fine arguments. Hopefully everything you say will be justified or come to fruition.
I predict that there is about a 50% chance of it all doing so.
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"" Ahhhh......THATS IT!!!
JFF will be great BECAUSE Colin Cowhead said something to motivate him.....""
Not what I said, genius. I said, this is another good sign. . You guys are so quick to bring up the history of the draft
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"" Ahhhh......THATS IT!!!
JFF will be great BECAUSE Colin Cowhead said something to motivate him.....""
Not what I said, genius. I said, this is another good sign. . You guys are so quick to bring up the history of the draft
Not what I said, genius..... You guys are so quick to bring up the history of the draft
Yes it is.
And, yeah, thats why they say..."Those that do not learn from history are bound to repeat it"
And those, that have a list of Johnny's college accomplishments, are bound to repeat it.....and repeat it......and repeat it.....
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"" Ahhhh......THATS IT!!!
JFF will be great BECAUSE Colin Cowhead said something to motivate him.....""
Not what I said, genius. I said, this is another good sign. . You guys are so quick to bring up the history of the draft, history of Browns qb's, but you are so quick to dismiss the history of Manziel. Everything his detractors are saying now has been said before about him. He sat the bench for a year at A&M before starting. He had off-field issues there. He was a smaller qb in the "mighty" SEC.
He dealt with all that negativity a certain way. Don't be surprised if history repeats itself. I won't.
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Just sounds like more long winded, anti JFF rhetoric to me.
Just sounds like more long winded, anti JFF rhetoric to me.
No, if you know me you know I do a lot of this sort of thing. They are just interesting tidbits.
I guess I could have shortened it a bit and instead of doing all NFL first round QB picks I could have just done the history of Browns first round QB picks.....and what would that result be? Pretty bad:
Phipps
Kosar
Couch
Quinn
Weeden
Success rate then would only be about 20%.
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Gipper, I thought you were a lawyer? This is the worst kind of pseudo-logic.
Its not logic.....it is mathematics....or probablilities, that's all.
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Here's another good sign for Johnny. Colin Cowherd says he will never last in the nfl. This is easily the 5th time cowherd has done this and he's been wrong every previous time. Most famously, he said Bama would knock him out of last year's game and win by 30+. They won 49-42 and manziel put 562 yards on them.
Johnny hears this. It motivates him. When he jits the field, he will desperately want to prove he can play.
Here's another good sign for Johnny. Colin Cowherd says he will never last in the nfl. This is easily the 5th time cowherd has done this and he's been wrong every previous time. Most famously, he said Bama would knock him out of last year's game and win by 30+. They won 49-42 and manziel put 562 yards on them.
Johnny hears this. It motivates him. When he hits the field, he will desperately want to prove he can play.
Any human being who gets in a NFL game wants to prove he can play, and play well, not just JFF.Secondly, Cow-turd is a pompous blowhard. A Jim Rome wannabe without the intelligence to pull it off. I put zero credibility in anything he says.
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Here's another good sign for Johnny. Colin Cowherd says he will never last in the nfl. This is easily the 5th time cowherd has done this and he's been wrong every previous time. Most famously, he said Bama would knock him out of last year's game and win by 30+. They won 49-42 and manziel put 562 yards on them.
Johnny hears this. It motivates him. When he jits the field, he will desperately want to prove he can play.
Here's another good sign for Johnny. Colin Cowherd says he will never last in the nfl. This is easily the 5th time cowherd has done this and he's been wrong every previous time. Most famously, he said Bama would knock him out of last year's game and win by 30+. They won 49-42 and manziel put 562 yards on them.
Johnny hears this. It motivates him. When he jits the field, he will desperately want to prove he can play.
Lets hope you are right. So you are saying that Cowherd success at his predictions have far worse odds than first round QB picks.
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