Jonathan Paul Manziel
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@everlastingxxx said:
I wouldnt put Drew Bledsoe as a bust.
You are absolutely right. I made a mistake when I listed him as a bust. I have corrected that.
#1st round QBs have much better odds vs undrafted free agent QBs at not being busts.
No doubt. But my point was to show that even 1st rounders are 50/50
BTW, anyone that would call Manziel a bust without him even starting a single game is lacking football knowledge.
It was not my intention to call him a bust, but to merely point out or concern that he could be and that we should not be surprised if he becomes one of the almost 50% of first rounders that do. You haven't been a Browns fan long enough. We are batting about 100% on the bust factor with our drafted QBs. So, optimism hasn't been rewarded for us.
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Archie Manning sucked
He was a bust. He never amounted to anything except he fathered Superbowl winning QB's
Archie Manning sucked
He was a bust. He never amounted to anything except he fathered Superbowl winning QB's
No, he was a good QB that played for lousy teams. Were you even alive when Archie Manning played?
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4 Continued. If you look at his demeanor that game, look at his face, he had no doubt what he was going to do. Call it cocky, call it confident. I call it crucial for a winning qb.
5. He has a good strong arm, not great but above average.
6. He's smart. He got 33 on the Wonderlic.
7. Ability to avoid bog hits. He rushed for 1700+ yards as a Frshman and rarely took a "killshot" hit.
He's so quick and sees the field so well that he manages to avoid big hits. He took a couple big hits his second year because he had to, which leads to number...
8. Competitiveness. I've never seen anybody want to win more than Johnny. The 2 big hits I remember from year two were two plays he was trying to win the game. Once at the Auburn goal line, and once on 4th and 7 when he ran up the middle for a first down. The guy LOVES competing. He will do whatever it takes to win.
But he's not 6' 4" 230, so people doubt him. Texas fans, Baylor fans, Alabama fans all told me he wouldn't make it through a second year in the sec. "He's too small, he parties too much, he only cares about himself. SEC defenses are gonna kill him." All proven wrong.
Will Johnny prove his NFL detractors wrong? I don't know. I think he will. I hope he will. I guarantee he is not gonna be a Ryan Leaf/Jamarcus Russell type bust, though. He will work hard to make Cleveland fans proud.
Sorry for this being 2 posts, accidentally hit post on the first one.
4 Continued. If you look at his demeanor that game, look at his face, he had no doubt what he was going to do. Call it cocky, call it confident. I call it crucial for a winning qb.
5. He has a good strong arm, not great but above average.
6. He's smart. He got 33 on the Wonderlic.
7. Ability to avoid bog hits. He rushed for 1700+ yards as a Frshman and rarely took a "killshot" hit.
He's so quick and sees the field so well that he manages to avoid big hits. He took a couple big hits his second year because he had to, which leads to number...
8. Competitiveness. I've never seen anybody want to win more than Johnny. The 2 big hits I remember from year two were two plays he was trying to win the game. Once at the Auburn goal line, and once on 4th and 7 when he ran up the middle for a first down. The guy LOVES competing. He will do whatever it takes to win.
But he's not 6' 4" 230, so people doubt him. Texas fans, Baylor fans, Alabama fans all told me he wouldn't make it through a second year in the sec. "He's too small, he parties too much, he only cares about himself. SEC defenses are gonna kill him." All proven wrong.
Will Johnny prove his NFL detractors wrong? I don't know. I think he will. I hope he will. I guarantee he is not gonna be a Ryan Leaf/Jamarcus Russell type bust, though. He will work hard to make Cleveland fans proud.
Sorry for this being 2 posts, accidentally hit post on the first one.
Your two posts make fine arguments. Hopefully everything you say will be justified or come to fruition.
I predict that there is about a 50% chance of it all doing so.
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"" Ahhhh......THATS IT!!!
JFF will be great BECAUSE Colin Cowhead said something to motivate him.....""
Not what I said, genius. I said, this is another good sign. . You guys are so quick to bring up the history of the draft
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"" Ahhhh......THATS IT!!!
JFF will be great BECAUSE Colin Cowhead said something to motivate him.....""
Not what I said, genius. I said, this is another good sign. . You guys are so quick to bring up the history of the draft
Not what I said, genius..... You guys are so quick to bring up the history of the draft
Yes it is.
And, yeah, thats why they say..."Those that do not learn from history are bound to repeat it"
And those, that have a list of Johnny's college accomplishments, are bound to repeat it.....and repeat it......and repeat it.....
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"" Ahhhh......THATS IT!!!
JFF will be great BECAUSE Colin Cowhead said something to motivate him.....""
Not what I said, genius. I said, this is another good sign. . You guys are so quick to bring up the history of the draft, history of Browns qb's, but you are so quick to dismiss the history of Manziel. Everything his detractors are saying now has been said before about him. He sat the bench for a year at A&M before starting. He had off-field issues there. He was a smaller qb in the "mighty" SEC.
He dealt with all that negativity a certain way. Don't be surprised if history repeats itself. I won't.
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Just sounds like more long winded, anti JFF rhetoric to me.
Just sounds like more long winded, anti JFF rhetoric to me.
No, if you know me you know I do a lot of this sort of thing. They are just interesting tidbits.
I guess I could have shortened it a bit and instead of doing all NFL first round QB picks I could have just done the history of Browns first round QB picks.....and what would that result be? Pretty bad:
Phipps
Kosar
Couch
Quinn
Weeden
Success rate then would only be about 20%.
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Gipper, I thought you were a lawyer? This is the worst kind of pseudo-logic.
Its not logic.....it is mathematics....or probablilities, that's all.
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Here's another good sign for Johnny. Colin Cowherd says he will never last in the nfl. This is easily the 5th time cowherd has done this and he's been wrong every previous time. Most famously, he said Bama would knock him out of last year's game and win by 30+. They won 49-42 and manziel put 562 yards on them.
Johnny hears this. It motivates him. When he jits the field, he will desperately want to prove he can play.
Here's another good sign for Johnny. Colin Cowherd says he will never last in the nfl. This is easily the 5th time cowherd has done this and he's been wrong every previous time. Most famously, he said Bama would knock him out of last year's game and win by 30+. They won 49-42 and manziel put 562 yards on them.
Johnny hears this. It motivates him. When he hits the field, he will desperately want to prove he can play.
Any human being who gets in a NFL game wants to prove he can play, and play well, not just JFF.Secondly, Cow-turd is a pompous blowhard. A Jim Rome wannabe without the intelligence to pull it off. I put zero credibility in anything he says.
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Here's another good sign for Johnny. Colin Cowherd says he will never last in the nfl. This is easily the 5th time cowherd has done this and he's been wrong every previous time. Most famously, he said Bama would knock him out of last year's game and win by 30+. They won 49-42 and manziel put 562 yards on them.
Johnny hears this. It motivates him. When he jits the field, he will desperately want to prove he can play.
Here's another good sign for Johnny. Colin Cowherd says he will never last in the nfl. This is easily the 5th time cowherd has done this and he's been wrong every previous time. Most famously, he said Bama would knock him out of last year's game and win by 30+. They won 49-42 and manziel put 562 yards on them.
Johnny hears this. It motivates him. When he jits the field, he will desperately want to prove he can play.
Lets hope you are right. So you are saying that Cowherd success at his predictions have far worse odds than first round QB picks.
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Mudfly, I made a list of reasons I think Manziel will succeed. You didn't reply. Then I mention one thing about Cowherd and you respond as if that's all I've said. That's not productive. Itakes you look like a troll.
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Its not logic.....it is mathematics....or probablilities, that's all.
Which mean shit all on an individual basis.
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Whatever man....you keep saying "you guys", as if Im beating down on Johnny. ....stop with the man love already...
Haha...Im no troll....but I could say the same about you, considering you've made the same post/list 10, 000 times....
Listen, my stance all along has been "let's wait and see"....
Most of us(me, at least) only post in these threads because YOU refuse to "wait and see" and, instead, go on and on and on and on about JFF, his college game and how great he is....blah blah blah.....(are you related to Stockton??)
Cant you see that???....I dont hate JFF. I hate all the NON STOP Johnny man love posts....
Figure it out....
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So Gipper, your point is that some QBs have been taken in the first round, some of whom have been busts, some not, and JFF might fall in to either category? Because tautologies are tautologies...
So Gipper, your point is that some QBs have been taken in the first round, some of whom have been busts, some not, and JFF might fall in to either category? Because tautologies are tautologies...
Yes, that's it. I am saying that he will be good...or he will be a bust. Unlike his chances I am more likely to be right.
(though....he could fall into that category of being "just OK". or just above or below average.
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So Gipper, your point is that some QBs have been taken in the first round, some of whom have been busts, some not, and JFF might fall in to either category? Because tautologies are tautologies...
Yes, that's it. I am saying that he will be good...or he will be a bust. Unlike his chances I am more likely to be right.
(though....he could fall into that category of being "just OK". or just above or below average.
Yes, that's it. I am saying that he will be good...or he will be a bust. Unlike his chances I am more likely to be right.
(though....he could fall into that category of being "just OK". or just above or below average.
So, you have no point? I mean, do you really think anybody here needed you to point all that out for them? Did anybody think all first round QBs go on to be hall of famers? Because if so I suspect they have bigger issues.
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Its not logic.....it is mathematics....or probablilities, that's all.
Which mean shit all on an individual basis.
Which mean shit all on an individual basis.
I thought the term was "fuck all".......but yes, this was not intended to apply specifically to JFF....or to predict his future. It was simply meant to point out that historically speaking, QBs in his similar situation have been good, bad, and indifferent.
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Gip, something like that... I know exactly what cowherd is, and it's ALWAYS a good sign when he trashes Johnny. You should have heard him after last year's bama game. "That Manziel guy is better than I thought. He has a stronger arm than I thought, etc."
Btw, the Aggies lost to bama 59-0 this year. I bet all those Aggie fans that were glad Johnny and his "issues" went to the nfl are now maybe wishing he'd stayed another year.
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Just sounds like more long winded, anti JFF rhetoric to me.
No, if you know me you know I do a lot of this sort of thing. They are just interesting tidbits.
I guess I could have shortened it a bit and instead of doing all NFL first round QB picks I could have just done the history of Browns first round QB picks.....and what would that result be? Pretty bad:
Phipps
Kosar
Couch
Quinn
Weeden
Success rate then would only be about 20%.
No, if you know me you know I do a lot of this sort of thing. They are just interesting tidbits.
I guess I could have shortened it a bit and instead of doing all NFL first round QB picks I could have just done the history of Browns first round QB picks.....and what would that result be? Pretty bad:
Phipps
Kosar
Couch
Quinn
Weeden
Success rate then would only be about 20%.
Given the success rate of 1st round QBs in general is higher than 20%, the logical conclusion is the Browns have historically been worse than most teams at drafting QBs.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
Hope has two beautiful daughters: Their names are Anger and Courage. Anger that things are the way they are. Courage to make them the way they ought to be. - St. Augustine. Throughout the centuries there were men who took first steps down new roads armed with nothing but their vision. - Ayn Rand
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