Jonathan Paul Manziel
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EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
Because the # of qbs under 6' 2' who went on to have HOF careers is damn short. Look it up PGL. Maybe you don't remember all the hoopla about RG III's height- or lack of. Manziel is even shorter. Again- I'm not saying Manziel will bust- but it was, and is a factor in his long term success in the NFL.
Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either. I'm sure Shanny has told him that crap won't fly in the NFL. You might have forgotten that little detail- I haven't. Playbook? You talking PLAYBOOK????
Problem I have with the Manzealots is they're (the more blinded ones at least) putting JFF in the Andrew Luck category of consensus #1 overall. Sure some guys thought he should be the #1 qb off the board- a bunch of others gave him a third round grade- and quite justifiably, I might add.
Oh- I'll pull a Shepsterism on ya- go ask him if he now wants to flip flop on the issue. Once upon a time he posited one of the best predictors of NFL success was the # of college starts a qb had. Andrew Luck, pass. JFF flunk.
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"" Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either.""
This is so overblown. Almost every "jump ball" to Mike Evans had to be thrown. Down 10 to Ole Miss with 5 minutes left from the 1 yard line on 3rd amd 30 is the most famous. Down 14 to bama with 30 seconds left is another.
And there's a reason Evans is known for catching these. Manziel wasn't stupid enough to throw those to a 5' 7" guy. He threw it up for his 6' 5" stud receiver to go get, and he did it maybe 10 times in 26 games and they almost always worked.
26 starts isn't enough in college? Thats how many Johnny started.
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"" Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either.""
This is so overblown. Almost every "jump ball" to Mike Evans had to be thrown. Down 10 to Ole Miss with 5 minutes left from the 1 yard line on 3rd amd 30 is the most famous. Down 14 to bama with 30 seconds left is another.
And there's a reason Evans is known for catching these. Manziel wasn't stupid enough to throw those to a 5' 7" guy. He threw it up for his 6' 5" stud receiver to go get, and he did it maybe 10 times in 26 games and they almost always worked.
26 starts isn't enough in college? Thats how many Johnny started.
26 starts isn't enough in college? Thats how many Johnny started.
It only matters in the draft. It means squat in the NFL. He's got to prove himself. We'll just have to wait and see.
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" It only matters in the draft. It means squat in the NFL. He's got to prove himself. We'll just have to wait and see."
I agrree.
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EXACTLY GIP...
50%... Just like you said..
So why do you assume he will be on the bust side instead of the boom side?
Because the # of qbs under 6' 2' who went on to have HOF careers is damn short. Look it up PGL. Maybe you don't remember all the hoopla about RG III's height- or lack of. Manziel is even shorter. Again- I'm not saying Manziel will bust- but it was, and is a factor in his long term success in the NFL.
Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either. I'm sure Shanny has told him that crap won't fly in the NFL. You might have forgotten that little detail- I haven't. Playbook? You talking PLAYBOOK????
Problem I have with the Manzealots is they're (the more blinded ones at least) putting JFF in the Andrew Luck category of consensus #1 overall. Sure some guys thought he should be the #1 qb off the board- a bunch of others gave him a third round grade- and quite justifiably, I might add.
Oh- I'll pull a Shepsterism on ya- go ask him if he now wants to flip flop on the issue. Once upon a time he posited one of the best predictors of NFL success was the # of college starts a qb had. Andrew Luck, pass. JFF flunk.
Because the # of qbs under 6' 2' who went on to have HOF careers is damn short. Look it up PGL. Maybe you don't remember all the hoopla about RG III's height- or lack of. Manziel is even shorter. Again- I'm not saying Manziel will bust- but it was, and is a factor in his long term success in the NFL.
Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either. I'm sure Shanny has told him that crap won't fly in the NFL. You might have forgotten that little detail- I haven't. Playbook? You talking PLAYBOOK????
, Michael
Problem I have with the Manzealots is they're (the more blinded ones at least) putting JFF in the Andrew Luck category of consensus #1 overall. Sure some guys thought he should be the #1 qb off the board- a bunch of others gave him a third round grade- and quite justifiably, I might add.
Oh- I'll pull a Shepsterism on ya- go ask him if he now wants to flip flop on the issue. Once upon a time he posited one of the best predictors of NFL success was the # of college starts a qb had. Andrew Luck, pass. JFF flunk.
Hoorta..
Why did we trade up to select Johnny? Did we do it because we think he will boom or bust?
Height means absolutely nothing... 0... zilch.. Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Frank Tarkenton, Otto Grahm, Doug Flutie, Michael Vick, Joe Theisman, Eddie LeBaron, Sonny Jurgensen... I mean it goes on..
Short QB's that actually get drafted end up playing pretty well.
RG3 isnt short.. he's average coming in at a shade over 6"2
The toss ups to Evans? Sure.. that happened on a handful of occasions.. just like any QB.. all QBs toss balls up every now and then.
Johnny almost every record there is. He put up POINTS.. hes FAST.. he is ACCURATE.. he has a GREAT ARM.. and he has excellent INSTINCTS.. he has a HIGH IQ... he is a LEADER.. he WORKS HARD (like before training camp he was working with the QB trainer every day in the sun for 6 months leading up to the draft)!! He PLAYS HARD! He NEVER GIVES UP (like on Gruden QB camp.. John showed Johnny his favorite play.. when Johnnys RB fumbled the ball.. Johnny ran down the field, STRIPPED THE BALL from the defender... then another defender picked it up.. Johnny got up and continued to pursue and took him down! Thats heart!)
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.. thats why he was worth a first rounder.. and that is why he is worth your time as a fan.
Ive been an avid Browns fan all my life.. I joined this forum for the first time back in 2006 when I was 17 yearls old. Im not a "Manzealot" Im a BROWNS FANATIC. I want what is best for this team MOVING FORWARD. I think that whats best.. is JOHNNY MANZIEL
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Because the # of qbs under 6' 2' who went on to have HOF careers is damn short. Look it up PGL. Maybe you don't remember all the hoopla about RG III's height- or lack of. Manziel is even shorter. Again- I'm not saying Manziel will bust- but it was, and is a factor in his long term success in the NFL.
Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either. I'm sure Shanny has told him that crap won't fly in the NFL. You might have forgotten that little detail- I haven't. Playbook? You talking PLAYBOOK????
, Michael
Problem I have with the Manzealots is they're (the more blinded ones at least) putting JFF in the Andrew Luck category of consensus #1 overall. Sure some guys thought he should be the #1 qb off the board- a bunch of others gave him a third round grade- and quite justifiably, I might add.
Oh- I'll pull a Shepsterism on ya- go ask him if he now wants to flip flop on the issue. Once upon a time he posited one of the best predictors of NFL success was the # of college starts a qb had. Andrew Luck, pass. JFF flunk.
Hoorta..
Why did we trade up to select Johnny? Did we do it because we think he will boom or bust?
Height means absolutely nothing... 0... zilch.. Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Frank Tarkenton, Otto Grahm, Doug Flutie, Michael Vick, Joe Theisman, Eddie LeBaron, Sonny Jurgensen... I mean it goes on..
Short QB's that actually get drafted end up playing pretty well.
RG3 isnt short.. he's average coming in at a shade over 6"2
The toss ups to Evans? Sure.. that happened on a handful of occasions.. just like any QB.. all QBs toss balls up every now and then.
Johnny almost every record there is. He put up POINTS.. hes FAST.. he is ACCURATE.. he has a GREAT ARM.. and he has excellent INSTINCTS.. he has a HIGH IQ... he is a LEADER.. he WORKS HARD (like before training camp he was working with the QB trainer every day in the sun for 6 months leading up to the draft)!! He PLAYS HARD! He NEVER GIVES UP (like on Gruden QB camp.. John showed Johnny his favorite play.. when Johnnys RB fumbled the ball.. Johnny ran down the field, STRIPPED THE BALL from the defender... then another defender picked it up.. Johnny got up and continued to pursue and took him down! Thats heart!)
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.. thats why he was worth a first rounder.. and that is why he is worth your time as a fan.
Ive been an avid Browns fan all my life.. I joined this forum for the first time back in 2006 when I was 17 yearls old. Im not a "Manzealot" Im a BROWNS FANATIC. I want what is best for this team MOVING FORWARD. I think that whats best.. is JOHNNY MANZIEL
Hoorta..
Why did we trade up to select Johnny? Did we do it because we think he will boom or bust?
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.. thats why he was worth a first rounder.. and that is why he is worth your time as a fan.
Ive been an avid Browns fan all my life.. I joined this forum for the first time back in 2006 when I was 17 yearls old. Im not a "Manzealot" Im a BROWNS FANATIC. I want what is best for this team MOVING FORWARD. I think that whats best.. is JOHNNY MANZIEL
Of course we drafted him in the first round because we thought he'd be great. LOL, you think teams draft players in the first round because the FO thought they would bust?
FWIW, I do think Manziel will eventually supplant Hoyer as the starter. When and how that happens remains to be seen. MHO is that time isn't now- as long as the Browns are in the playoff hunt. Right now JFF is the best situation possible- learning the pro game, learning the playbook, and learning from a TOTAL professional in Hoyer how to prepare for a game.
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Nice post PL.
Johnny is in a great situation, I agree. He doesn't need any help working like a professional, though. He's always worked hard and been a good teammate.
It would help if the media and crazy "fans" didn't follow him around like the pied piper, but Manziel sells. It's the price you pay for being a superstar. Johnny didn't ask for that, his play on the field made him an espn darling, and "Manziel news" has been beaten to death ever since.
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How many QB's who ran the air raid offense in college have successfully transitioned to the nfl? Honest question. Anyone done that research?
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Tim Couch ran the Air Raid.. Nick Foles.. Kevin Kolb..John Beck.. Case Keenum..Brandon Weeden..Geno Smith.. Max Hall..
Not the best track record I will admit
However.. I would also like to talk about Case Keenum.. EXTREMELY underrated in the NFL.. the kid put up #'s but is getting looked over in my opinion.. Hes pretty good
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all this hoyer v. manziel talk is just that....at the end of the season the brown's management will make their decision re hoyer and manziel.....maybe hoyer will play lights out and take the browns to the Super Bowl and get the big long term contract he wants, but then again, maybe he won't.....anyone can have an opinion, but until the season's over, or the browns lose 2-3 in a row, with real bad qb play, that status quo will remain.....in the meantime, if he's smart, manziel will make good use of this time and work as hard as he can to learn all that he can......it should have become obvious to him by now that a large part of a quarter back's success in the nfl is a function of what goes on in his head, can he quickly make good reads, decipher defenses, manage the offense to get it in a positive rhythm, etc......manziel may provide an extra dimension because of his athleticism but that alone isn't sufficient, he needs to learn how to be a smart nfl quarterback.....i look forward to seeing him play, hopefully with the browns, but if not there, for another team.....my sense is he will succeed, but only time will tell....
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What reputable spots are open until 02:00 Downtown?
Regardless of reputation, who here has ever "hung out" with Mom until the wee hours?
And did Oedipus invent the money sign?
What reputable spots are open until 02:00 Downtown?
Regardless of reputation, who here has ever "hung out" with Mom until the wee hours?
And did Oedipus invent the money sign?
Your anti JFF is showing loud and clear, again.
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Your anti JFF is showing loud and clear, again.
At least you didn't play the "hater" card...
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The Browns did not draft Manziel as a "marketing ploy" otherwise Jacksonville would have snatched him up. The Browns don't have problems selling tickets.
He was their #1 ranked QB. End of story.
Nobody knows what he will do on the field and that can be debated all day.
The Browns did not draft Manziel as a "marketing ploy" otherwise Jacksonville would have snatched him up. The Browns don't have problems selling tickets.
He was their #1 ranked QB. End of story.
Nobody knows what he will do on the field and that can be debated all day.
Doubt it.
Bottles was likely their #1 ranked QB.
You don't trade back when your #1 ranked QB is on the board.
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Because the # of qbs under 6' 2' who went on to have HOF careers is damn short. Look it up PGL. Maybe you don't remember all the hoopla about RG III's height- or lack of. Manziel is even shorter. Again- I'm not saying Manziel will bust- but it was, and is a factor in his long term success in the NFL.
Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either. I'm sure Shanny has told him that crap won't fly in the NFL. You might have forgotten that little detail- I haven't. Playbook? You talking PLAYBOOK????
, Michael
Problem I have with the Manzealots is they're (the more blinded ones at least) putting JFF in the Andrew Luck category of consensus #1 overall. Sure some guys thought he should be the #1 qb off the board- a bunch of others gave him a third round grade- and quite justifiably, I might add.
Oh- I'll pull a Shepsterism on ya- go ask him if he now wants to flip flop on the issue. Once upon a time he posited one of the best predictors of NFL success was the # of college starts a qb had. Andrew Luck, pass. JFF flunk.
Hoorta..
Why did we trade up to select Johnny? Did we do it because we think he will boom or bust?
Height means absolutely nothing... 0... zilch.. Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Frank Tarkenton, Otto Grahm, Doug Flutie, Michael Vick, Joe Theisman, Eddie LeBaron, Sonny Jurgensen... I mean it goes on..
Short QB's that actually get drafted end up playing pretty well.
RG3 isnt short.. he's average coming in at a shade over 6"2
The toss ups to Evans? Sure.. that happened on a handful of occasions.. just like any QB.. all QBs toss balls up every now and then.
Johnny almost every record there is. He put up POINTS.. hes FAST.. he is ACCURATE.. he has a GREAT ARM.. and he has excellent INSTINCTS.. he has a HIGH IQ... he is a LEADER.. he WORKS HARD (like before training camp he was working with the QB trainer every day in the sun for 6 months leading up to the draft)!! He PLAYS HARD! He NEVER GIVES UP (like on Gruden QB camp.. John showed Johnny his favorite play.. when Johnnys RB fumbled the ball.. Johnny ran down the field, STRIPPED THE BALL from the defender... then another defender picked it up.. Johnny got up and continued to pursue and took him down! Thats heart!)
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.. thats why he was worth a first rounder.. and that is why he is worth your time as a fan.
Ive been an avid Browns fan all my life.. I joined this forum for the first time back in 2006 when I was 17 yearls old. Im not a "Manzealot" Im a BROWNS FANATIC. I want what is best for this team MOVING FORWARD. I think that whats best.. is JOHNNY MANZIEL
Johnny almost every record there is. He put up POINTS.. hes FAST.. he is ACCURATE.. he has a GREAT ARM.. and he has excellent INSTINCTS.. he has a HIGH IQ... he is a LEADER.. he WORKS HARD (like before training camp he was working with the QB trainer every day in the sun for 6 months leading up to the draft)!! He PLAYS HARD! He NEVER GIVES UP...
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.
Mostly what you wrote are subjective things that are true for you... not me... not at the Pro level anyway.
As for the couple objective things you list... Points? Sure. IQ? Maybe, if you buy the Wunderlich. But FAST? No...
Sorry, but 4.63 is not "FAST" in the NFL. LBs run 4.63 in the NFL. What he objectively is, however, is agile. He is also subjectively COMPETITVE... even hyper-competitive... which is what a number of your hand-waving "truths" boil down to, IMO. Channeled, COMPETITIVENESS is a very powerful trait for propelling excellence. Unchanneled, it's a recipe for disaster.
Unfortunately JM is also very IMMATURE and maturity is the key ingredient in controlling, or channeling, talent.
I am a skeptic (surprise). So far JM has done nothing as a Brown to earn my fan loyalty... moreover he hasn't yet earned my fan respect. That is our, JM's and my, first step. Earning my fan respect does not even require him to step on the field.
So far it been one-step forward (usually by saying the "right things"), followed by a "doing-something-thoughtlessly-stupid", one-step back.
Still stuck in neutral here... and waiting. apparently just like the Browns' Staff and FO.
Johnny is in a great situation, I agree. He doesn't need any help working like a professional, though. He's always worked hard and been a good teammate.
It would help if the media and crazy "fans" didn't follow him around like the pied piper, but Manziel sells. It's the price you pay for being a superstar. Johnny didn't ask for that, his play on the field made him an espn darling, and "Manziel news" has been beaten to death ever since.
Wow... hadn't heard this line of rationalization since Week 4 or so...
Have you checked his jersey sales lately?
Tim Couch ran the Air Raid.. Nick Foles.. Kevin Kolb..John Beck.. Case Keenum..Brandon Weeden..Geno Smith.. Max Hall..
Not the best track record I will admit
However.. I would also like to talk about Case Keenum.. EXTREMELY underrated in the NFL.. the kid put up #'s but is getting looked over in my opinion.. Hes pretty good
lol... Understate much?
I liked Case, too. Saw a few of his UH games and thought he had a shot at being a good Pro QB. He may still, but in his 8 starts for HOU he did not display the capability I would have expected. The pro game looked to fast for him.
Maybe it was a system issue? Maybe in Kelly's system in Philly he'd fare better, but then I think a lot of QBs would fair well in Kelly's system.
Then again... Is it as odd as it looks to think that Kelly's system might cure a case of the "too fasts"???
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Johnny almost every record there is. He put up POINTS.. hes FAST.. he is ACCURATE.. he has a GREAT ARM.. and he has excellent INSTINCTS.. he has a HIGH IQ... he is a LEADER.. he WORKS HARD (like before training camp he was working with the QB trainer every day in the sun for 6 months leading up to the draft)!! He PLAYS HARD! He NEVER GIVES UP...
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.
Mostly what you wrote are subjective things that are true for you... not me... not at the Pro level anyway.
As for the couple objective things you list... Points? Sure. IQ? Maybe, if you buy the Wunderlich. But FAST? No...
Sorry, but 4.63 is not "FAST" in the NFL. LBs run 4.63 in the NFL. What he objectively is, however, is agile. He is also subjectively COMPETITVE... even hyper-competitive... which is what a number of your hand-waving "truths" boil down to, IMO. Channeled, COMPETITIVENESS is a very powerful trait for propelling excellence. Unchanneled, it's a recipe for disaster.
Unfortunately JM is also very IMMATURE and maturity is the key ingredient in controlling, or channeling, talent.
I am a skeptic (surprise). So far JM has done nothing as a Brown to earn my fan loyalty... moreover he hasn't yet earned my fan respect. That is our, JM's and my, first step. Earning my fan respect does not even require him to step on the field.
So far it been one-step forward (usually by saying the "right things"), followed by a "doing-something-thoughtlessly-stupid", one-step back.
Still stuck in neutral here... and waiting. apparently just like the Browns' Staff and FO.
Johnny is in a great situation, I agree. He doesn't need any help working like a professional, though. He's always worked hard and been a good teammate.
It would help if the media and crazy "fans" didn't follow him around like the pied piper, but Manziel sells. It's the price you pay for being a superstar. Johnny didn't ask for that, his play on the field made him an espn darling, and "Manziel news" has been beaten to death ever since.
Wow... hadn't heard this line of rationalization since Week 4 or so...
Have you checked his jersey sales lately?
Tim Couch ran the Air Raid.. Nick Foles.. Kevin Kolb..John Beck.. Case Keenum..Brandon Weeden..Geno Smith.. Max Hall..
Not the best track record I will admit
However.. I would also like to talk about Case Keenum.. EXTREMELY underrated in the NFL.. the kid put up #'s but is getting looked over in my opinion.. Hes pretty good
lol... Understate much?
I liked Case, too. Saw a few of his UH games and thought he had a shot at being a good Pro QB. He may still, but in his 8 starts for HOU he did not display the capability I would have expected. The pro game looked to fast for him.
Maybe it was a system issue? Maybe in Kelly's system in Philly he'd fare better, but then I think a lot of QBs would fair well in Kelly's system.
Then again... Is it as odd as it looks to think that Kelly's system might cure a case of the "too fasts"???
Mostly what you wrote are subjective things that are true for you... not me... not at the Pro level anyway.
As for the couple objective things you list... Points? Sure. IQ? Maybe, if you buy the Wunderlich. But FAST? No...
Sorry, but 4.63 is not "FAST" in the NFL. LBs run 4.63 in the NFL. What he objectively is, however, is agile. He is also subjectively COMPETITVE... even hyper-competitive... which is what a number of your hand-waving "truths" boil down to, IMO. Channeled, COMPETITIVENESS is a very powerful trait for propelling excellence. Unchanneled, it's a recipe for disaster.
Right "fast" in the NFL is around 4.4 or better. Darryl Green ran a clocked 4.2 now that's "fast".
Unfortunately JM is also very IMMATURE and maturity is the key ingredient in controlling, or channeling, talent.
I am a skeptic (surprise). So far JM has done nothing as a Brown to earn my fan loyalty... moreover he hasn't yet earned my fan respect. That is our, JM's and my, first step. Earning my fan respect does not even require him to step on the field.
So far it been one-step forward (usually by saying the "right things"), followed by a "doing-something-thoughtlessly-stupid", one-step back.
Still stuck in neutral here... and waiting. apparently just like the Browns' Staff and FO.
Wow... hadn't heard this line of rationalization since Week 4 or so...
Have you checked his jersey sales lately?
lol... Understate much?
I liked Case, too. Saw a few of his UH games and thought he had a shot at being a good Pro QB. He may still, but in his 8 starts for HOU he did not display the capability I would have expected. The pro game looked to fast for him.
Maybe it was a system issue? Maybe in Kelly's system in Philly he'd fare better, but then I think a lot of QBs would fair well in Kelly's system.
Then again... Is it as odd as it looks to think that Kelly's system might cure a case of the "too fasts"???
I watched most of the Eagle's game today- Kelley has apparently performed the miracle of turning Sanchez into a competent qb.
To the Manziel fans- Tour pretty much echoes my sentiments. Sure he was a great COLLEGE qb. Until he can replicate that in the Pros, it doesn't mean diddly-doo.
The young 'uns think JFF flipping off that world is a cool thing, getting plastered all over Youtube and Instagram - well, Tour nailed it. Immaturity. Guess what- that real Cleveland Icon- you know- the guy who has a 80' poster of himself outside Quicken, the guy who has a couple MVPs, and Championship rings- the guy who was practicing with the Cavs when he was in eighth grade- seems he has NO trouble staying out of the spotlight with his personal life. Funny funny you can ditto that with Andrew Luck - managed to get himself the key code to the private entrance at St Elmo's in Indy- just like Peyton Manning when he wants to take his pals out to dinner. Until JFF drops the attention whore attitude, he's going to get everything he's asking for- and a whole lot more.
Some of us old farts have been around long enough to see guys who were stud qbs- and put up huge numbers in the NCAA flame out like a meteor in the NFL. All I think we're saying is if you think Manziel "cant miss" we've seen far too many guys with that tag- miss.
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Mostly what you wrote are subjective things that are true for you... not me... not at the Pro level anyway.
As for the couple objective things you list... Points? Sure. IQ? Maybe, if you buy the Wunderlich. But FAST? No...
Sorry, but 4.63 is not "FAST" in the NFL. LBs run 4.63 in the NFL. What he objectively is, however, is agile. He is also subjectively COMPETITVE... even hyper-competitive... which is what a number of your hand-waving "truths" boil down to, IMO. Channeled, COMPETITIVENESS is a very powerful trait for propelling excellence. Unchanneled, it's a recipe for disaster.
Right "fast" in the NFL is around 4.4 or better. Darryl Green ran a clocked 4.2 now that's "fast".
Unfortunately JM is also very IMMATURE and maturity is the key ingredient in controlling, or channeling, talent.
I am a skeptic (surprise). So far JM has done nothing as a Brown to earn my fan loyalty... moreover he hasn't yet earned my fan respect. That is our, JM's and my, first step. Earning my fan respect does not even require him to step on the field.
So far it been one-step forward (usually by saying the "right things"), followed by a "doing-something-thoughtlessly-stupid", one-step back.
Still stuck in neutral here... and waiting. apparently just like the Browns' Staff and FO.
Wow... hadn't heard this line of rationalization since Week 4 or so...
Have you checked his jersey sales lately?
lol... Understate much?
I liked Case, too. Saw a few of his UH games and thought he had a shot at being a good Pro QB. He may still, but in his 8 starts for HOU he did not display the capability I would have expected. The pro game looked to fast for him.
Maybe it was a system issue? Maybe in Kelly's system in Philly he'd fare better, but then I think a lot of QBs would fair well in Kelly's system.
Then again... Is it as odd as it looks to think that Kelly's system might cure a case of the "too fasts"???
I watched most of the Eagle's game today- Kelley has apparently performed the miracle of turning Sanchez into a competent qb.
To the Manziel fans- Tour pretty much echoes my sentiments. Sure he was a great COLLEGE qb. Until he can replicate that in the Pros, it doesn't mean diddly-doo.
The young 'uns think JFF flipping off that world is a cool thing, getting plastered all over Youtube and Instagram - well, Tour nailed it. Immaturity. Guess what- that real Cleveland Icon- you know- the guy who has a 80' poster of himself outside Quicken, the guy who has a couple MVPs, and Championship rings- the guy who was practicing with the Cavs when he was in eighth grade- seems he has NO trouble staying out of the spotlight with his personal life. Funny funny you can ditto that with Andrew Luck - managed to get himself the key code to the private entrance at St Elmo's in Indy- just like Peyton Manning when he wants to take his pals out to dinner. Until JFF drops the attention whore attitude, he's going to get everything he's asking for- and a whole lot more.
Some of us old farts have been around long enough to see guys who were stud qbs- and put up huge numbers in the NCAA flame out like a meteor in the NFL. All I think we're saying is if you think Manziel "cant miss" we've seen far too many guys with that tag- miss.
Some of us old farts have been around long enough to see guys who were stud qbs- and put up huge numbers in the NCAA flame out like a meteor in the NFL. All I think we're saying is if you think Manziel "cant miss" we've seen far too many guys with that tag- miss.
This says it all for me......
Ive seen SO many "once in a lifetime" cant miss talents flame out that Ive lost count. And JFF's not even that.....just another #21like weeden and quinn.....
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Add me to those who have been around long enough to see many "star" football players at the college level crash and burn in the nfl. Our skepticism is legitimate. I am also in the same boat as Tour when he mentioned the lack of respect. Johnny hasn't earned my respect yet, either. I think he's been trained to say the right thing, but I have to see that he can consistently do the right thing. That's the part that hasn't impressed me. Add to it the type of offense he ran in college is known for inflating stats and being difficult to follow up at the pro level. Can Johnny run any type of offense or only the kind that has to be catered to him? Offensive coordinators come and go and bring their own schemes with them. Ask RGIII. Are we assuming he can play in poor weather conditions? He never even saw snow until he moved to Cleveland. why would we make the assumption it won't have any affect on his game? I've seen so many comparisons to Russell Wilson, but the fact is, he's not Russell Wilson. Wilson is far more mature, and was running a pro style offense in college for a longer time. Short and quick/agile are the qualities he's shares with Wilson and one of those is a negative for his success at this level. Wilson has overcome that by playing smart. The uber competitiveness coupled with the immaturity is another thing that worries me about Johnny's transition. Will he be able to tame that wild streak that will cause him to throw INT's or take a lot of unnecessary hits? I also totally disagree that Johnny would win these games the same as Hoyer. What proof is there of that at all? Bortles, Carr, and Bridgewater? I have no idea what Johnny will or can be at this level and the fact is, no fan does. The coaches might have some idea by now, but we have none.
I can see Hoyer's limitations, but i also believe he can get better. He's not a rookie in his knowledge of the game, but he is inexperienced as a starter, and coming back from a major knee injury. We know he can learn and run different types of offenses. We know he's never out of the game. We know we have a winning record for the first time in years. We know we can count on him to do the work and prepare. I respect him and I trust him. It seems the team does as well.
It's crazy talk to me to think about benching Hoyer when we're winning for a rookie that we have no guarantees can or will do better.
I feel like we should be thanking Hoyer, not trashing him and trying to run him out of town or put him on the bench. He's put up with a lot through all the Manziel Mania and deserves nothing but respect and gratitude, IMO.
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At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
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