Jonathan Paul Manziel
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all this hoyer v. manziel talk is just that....at the end of the season the brown's management will make their decision re hoyer and manziel.....maybe hoyer will play lights out and take the browns to the Super Bowl and get the big long term contract he wants, but then again, maybe he won't.....anyone can have an opinion, but until the season's over, or the browns lose 2-3 in a row, with real bad qb play, that status quo will remain.....in the meantime, if he's smart, manziel will make good use of this time and work as hard as he can to learn all that he can......it should have become obvious to him by now that a large part of a quarter back's success in the nfl is a function of what goes on in his head, can he quickly make good reads, decipher defenses, manage the offense to get it in a positive rhythm, etc......manziel may provide an extra dimension because of his athleticism but that alone isn't sufficient, he needs to learn how to be a smart nfl quarterback.....i look forward to seeing him play, hopefully with the browns, but if not there, for another team.....my sense is he will succeed, but only time will tell....
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What reputable spots are open until 02:00 Downtown?
Regardless of reputation, who here has ever "hung out" with Mom until the wee hours?
And did Oedipus invent the money sign?
What reputable spots are open until 02:00 Downtown?
Regardless of reputation, who here has ever "hung out" with Mom until the wee hours?
And did Oedipus invent the money sign?
Your anti JFF is showing loud and clear, again.
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Your anti JFF is showing loud and clear, again.
At least you didn't play the "hater" card...
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The Browns did not draft Manziel as a "marketing ploy" otherwise Jacksonville would have snatched him up. The Browns don't have problems selling tickets.
He was their #1 ranked QB. End of story.
Nobody knows what he will do on the field and that can be debated all day.
The Browns did not draft Manziel as a "marketing ploy" otherwise Jacksonville would have snatched him up. The Browns don't have problems selling tickets.
He was their #1 ranked QB. End of story.
Nobody knows what he will do on the field and that can be debated all day.
Doubt it.
Bottles was likely their #1 ranked QB.
You don't trade back when your #1 ranked QB is on the board.
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Because the # of qbs under 6' 2' who went on to have HOF careers is damn short. Look it up PGL. Maybe you don't remember all the hoopla about RG III's height- or lack of. Manziel is even shorter. Again- I'm not saying Manziel will bust- but it was, and is a factor in his long term success in the NFL.
Another factor in his long term success is if JFF has learned he can't throw passes of his back foot into a triple covered Mike Evans for jump balls either. I'm sure Shanny has told him that crap won't fly in the NFL. You might have forgotten that little detail- I haven't. Playbook? You talking PLAYBOOK????
, Michael
Problem I have with the Manzealots is they're (the more blinded ones at least) putting JFF in the Andrew Luck category of consensus #1 overall. Sure some guys thought he should be the #1 qb off the board- a bunch of others gave him a third round grade- and quite justifiably, I might add.
Oh- I'll pull a Shepsterism on ya- go ask him if he now wants to flip flop on the issue. Once upon a time he posited one of the best predictors of NFL success was the # of college starts a qb had. Andrew Luck, pass. JFF flunk.
Hoorta..
Why did we trade up to select Johnny? Did we do it because we think he will boom or bust?
Height means absolutely nothing... 0... zilch.. Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Frank Tarkenton, Otto Grahm, Doug Flutie, Michael Vick, Joe Theisman, Eddie LeBaron, Sonny Jurgensen... I mean it goes on..
Short QB's that actually get drafted end up playing pretty well.
RG3 isnt short.. he's average coming in at a shade over 6"2
The toss ups to Evans? Sure.. that happened on a handful of occasions.. just like any QB.. all QBs toss balls up every now and then.
Johnny almost every record there is. He put up POINTS.. hes FAST.. he is ACCURATE.. he has a GREAT ARM.. and he has excellent INSTINCTS.. he has a HIGH IQ... he is a LEADER.. he WORKS HARD (like before training camp he was working with the QB trainer every day in the sun for 6 months leading up to the draft)!! He PLAYS HARD! He NEVER GIVES UP (like on Gruden QB camp.. John showed Johnny his favorite play.. when Johnnys RB fumbled the ball.. Johnny ran down the field, STRIPPED THE BALL from the defender... then another defender picked it up.. Johnny got up and continued to pursue and took him down! Thats heart!)
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.. thats why he was worth a first rounder.. and that is why he is worth your time as a fan.
Ive been an avid Browns fan all my life.. I joined this forum for the first time back in 2006 when I was 17 yearls old. Im not a "Manzealot" Im a BROWNS FANATIC. I want what is best for this team MOVING FORWARD. I think that whats best.. is JOHNNY MANZIEL
Johnny almost every record there is. He put up POINTS.. hes FAST.. he is ACCURATE.. he has a GREAT ARM.. and he has excellent INSTINCTS.. he has a HIGH IQ... he is a LEADER.. he WORKS HARD (like before training camp he was working with the QB trainer every day in the sun for 6 months leading up to the draft)!! He PLAYS HARD! He NEVER GIVES UP...
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.
Mostly what you wrote are subjective things that are true for you... not me... not at the Pro level anyway.
As for the couple objective things you list... Points? Sure. IQ? Maybe, if you buy the Wunderlich. But FAST? No...
Sorry, but 4.63 is not "FAST" in the NFL. LBs run 4.63 in the NFL. What he objectively is, however, is agile. He is also subjectively COMPETITVE... even hyper-competitive... which is what a number of your hand-waving "truths" boil down to, IMO. Channeled, COMPETITIVENESS is a very powerful trait for propelling excellence. Unchanneled, it's a recipe for disaster.
Unfortunately JM is also very IMMATURE and maturity is the key ingredient in controlling, or channeling, talent.
I am a skeptic (surprise). So far JM has done nothing as a Brown to earn my fan loyalty... moreover he hasn't yet earned my fan respect. That is our, JM's and my, first step. Earning my fan respect does not even require him to step on the field.
So far it been one-step forward (usually by saying the "right things"), followed by a "doing-something-thoughtlessly-stupid", one-step back.
Still stuck in neutral here... and waiting. apparently just like the Browns' Staff and FO.
Johnny is in a great situation, I agree. He doesn't need any help working like a professional, though. He's always worked hard and been a good teammate.
It would help if the media and crazy "fans" didn't follow him around like the pied piper, but Manziel sells. It's the price you pay for being a superstar. Johnny didn't ask for that, his play on the field made him an espn darling, and "Manziel news" has been beaten to death ever since.
Wow... hadn't heard this line of rationalization since Week 4 or so...
Have you checked his jersey sales lately?
Tim Couch ran the Air Raid.. Nick Foles.. Kevin Kolb..John Beck.. Case Keenum..Brandon Weeden..Geno Smith.. Max Hall..
Not the best track record I will admit
However.. I would also like to talk about Case Keenum.. EXTREMELY underrated in the NFL.. the kid put up #'s but is getting looked over in my opinion.. Hes pretty good
lol... Understate much?
I liked Case, too. Saw a few of his UH games and thought he had a shot at being a good Pro QB. He may still, but in his 8 starts for HOU he did not display the capability I would have expected. The pro game looked to fast for him.
Maybe it was a system issue? Maybe in Kelly's system in Philly he'd fare better, but then I think a lot of QBs would fair well in Kelly's system.
Then again... Is it as odd as it looks to think that Kelly's system might cure a case of the "too fasts"???
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Johnny almost every record there is. He put up POINTS.. hes FAST.. he is ACCURATE.. he has a GREAT ARM.. and he has excellent INSTINCTS.. he has a HIGH IQ... he is a LEADER.. he WORKS HARD (like before training camp he was working with the QB trainer every day in the sun for 6 months leading up to the draft)!! He PLAYS HARD! He NEVER GIVES UP...
Every one of the things I wrote up there are true.
Mostly what you wrote are subjective things that are true for you... not me... not at the Pro level anyway.
As for the couple objective things you list... Points? Sure. IQ? Maybe, if you buy the Wunderlich. But FAST? No...
Sorry, but 4.63 is not "FAST" in the NFL. LBs run 4.63 in the NFL. What he objectively is, however, is agile. He is also subjectively COMPETITVE... even hyper-competitive... which is what a number of your hand-waving "truths" boil down to, IMO. Channeled, COMPETITIVENESS is a very powerful trait for propelling excellence. Unchanneled, it's a recipe for disaster.
Unfortunately JM is also very IMMATURE and maturity is the key ingredient in controlling, or channeling, talent.
I am a skeptic (surprise). So far JM has done nothing as a Brown to earn my fan loyalty... moreover he hasn't yet earned my fan respect. That is our, JM's and my, first step. Earning my fan respect does not even require him to step on the field.
So far it been one-step forward (usually by saying the "right things"), followed by a "doing-something-thoughtlessly-stupid", one-step back.
Still stuck in neutral here... and waiting. apparently just like the Browns' Staff and FO.
Johnny is in a great situation, I agree. He doesn't need any help working like a professional, though. He's always worked hard and been a good teammate.
It would help if the media and crazy "fans" didn't follow him around like the pied piper, but Manziel sells. It's the price you pay for being a superstar. Johnny didn't ask for that, his play on the field made him an espn darling, and "Manziel news" has been beaten to death ever since.
Wow... hadn't heard this line of rationalization since Week 4 or so...
Have you checked his jersey sales lately?
Tim Couch ran the Air Raid.. Nick Foles.. Kevin Kolb..John Beck.. Case Keenum..Brandon Weeden..Geno Smith.. Max Hall..
Not the best track record I will admit
However.. I would also like to talk about Case Keenum.. EXTREMELY underrated in the NFL.. the kid put up #'s but is getting looked over in my opinion.. Hes pretty good
lol... Understate much?
I liked Case, too. Saw a few of his UH games and thought he had a shot at being a good Pro QB. He may still, but in his 8 starts for HOU he did not display the capability I would have expected. The pro game looked to fast for him.
Maybe it was a system issue? Maybe in Kelly's system in Philly he'd fare better, but then I think a lot of QBs would fair well in Kelly's system.
Then again... Is it as odd as it looks to think that Kelly's system might cure a case of the "too fasts"???
Mostly what you wrote are subjective things that are true for you... not me... not at the Pro level anyway.
As for the couple objective things you list... Points? Sure. IQ? Maybe, if you buy the Wunderlich. But FAST? No...
Sorry, but 4.63 is not "FAST" in the NFL. LBs run 4.63 in the NFL. What he objectively is, however, is agile. He is also subjectively COMPETITVE... even hyper-competitive... which is what a number of your hand-waving "truths" boil down to, IMO. Channeled, COMPETITIVENESS is a very powerful trait for propelling excellence. Unchanneled, it's a recipe for disaster.
Right "fast" in the NFL is around 4.4 or better. Darryl Green ran a clocked 4.2 now that's "fast".
Unfortunately JM is also very IMMATURE and maturity is the key ingredient in controlling, or channeling, talent.
I am a skeptic (surprise). So far JM has done nothing as a Brown to earn my fan loyalty... moreover he hasn't yet earned my fan respect. That is our, JM's and my, first step. Earning my fan respect does not even require him to step on the field.
So far it been one-step forward (usually by saying the "right things"), followed by a "doing-something-thoughtlessly-stupid", one-step back.
Still stuck in neutral here... and waiting. apparently just like the Browns' Staff and FO.
Wow... hadn't heard this line of rationalization since Week 4 or so...
Have you checked his jersey sales lately?
lol... Understate much?
I liked Case, too. Saw a few of his UH games and thought he had a shot at being a good Pro QB. He may still, but in his 8 starts for HOU he did not display the capability I would have expected. The pro game looked to fast for him.
Maybe it was a system issue? Maybe in Kelly's system in Philly he'd fare better, but then I think a lot of QBs would fair well in Kelly's system.
Then again... Is it as odd as it looks to think that Kelly's system might cure a case of the "too fasts"???
I watched most of the Eagle's game today- Kelley has apparently performed the miracle of turning Sanchez into a competent qb.
To the Manziel fans- Tour pretty much echoes my sentiments. Sure he was a great COLLEGE qb. Until he can replicate that in the Pros, it doesn't mean diddly-doo.
The young 'uns think JFF flipping off that world is a cool thing, getting plastered all over Youtube and Instagram - well, Tour nailed it. Immaturity. Guess what- that real Cleveland Icon- you know- the guy who has a 80' poster of himself outside Quicken, the guy who has a couple MVPs, and Championship rings- the guy who was practicing with the Cavs when he was in eighth grade- seems he has NO trouble staying out of the spotlight with his personal life. Funny funny you can ditto that with Andrew Luck - managed to get himself the key code to the private entrance at St Elmo's in Indy- just like Peyton Manning when he wants to take his pals out to dinner. Until JFF drops the attention whore attitude, he's going to get everything he's asking for- and a whole lot more.
Some of us old farts have been around long enough to see guys who were stud qbs- and put up huge numbers in the NCAA flame out like a meteor in the NFL. All I think we're saying is if you think Manziel "cant miss" we've seen far too many guys with that tag- miss.
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Mostly what you wrote are subjective things that are true for you... not me... not at the Pro level anyway.
As for the couple objective things you list... Points? Sure. IQ? Maybe, if you buy the Wunderlich. But FAST? No...
Sorry, but 4.63 is not "FAST" in the NFL. LBs run 4.63 in the NFL. What he objectively is, however, is agile. He is also subjectively COMPETITVE... even hyper-competitive... which is what a number of your hand-waving "truths" boil down to, IMO. Channeled, COMPETITIVENESS is a very powerful trait for propelling excellence. Unchanneled, it's a recipe for disaster.
Right "fast" in the NFL is around 4.4 or better. Darryl Green ran a clocked 4.2 now that's "fast".
Unfortunately JM is also very IMMATURE and maturity is the key ingredient in controlling, or channeling, talent.
I am a skeptic (surprise). So far JM has done nothing as a Brown to earn my fan loyalty... moreover he hasn't yet earned my fan respect. That is our, JM's and my, first step. Earning my fan respect does not even require him to step on the field.
So far it been one-step forward (usually by saying the "right things"), followed by a "doing-something-thoughtlessly-stupid", one-step back.
Still stuck in neutral here... and waiting. apparently just like the Browns' Staff and FO.
Wow... hadn't heard this line of rationalization since Week 4 or so...
Have you checked his jersey sales lately?
lol... Understate much?
I liked Case, too. Saw a few of his UH games and thought he had a shot at being a good Pro QB. He may still, but in his 8 starts for HOU he did not display the capability I would have expected. The pro game looked to fast for him.
Maybe it was a system issue? Maybe in Kelly's system in Philly he'd fare better, but then I think a lot of QBs would fair well in Kelly's system.
Then again... Is it as odd as it looks to think that Kelly's system might cure a case of the "too fasts"???
I watched most of the Eagle's game today- Kelley has apparently performed the miracle of turning Sanchez into a competent qb.
To the Manziel fans- Tour pretty much echoes my sentiments. Sure he was a great COLLEGE qb. Until he can replicate that in the Pros, it doesn't mean diddly-doo.
The young 'uns think JFF flipping off that world is a cool thing, getting plastered all over Youtube and Instagram - well, Tour nailed it. Immaturity. Guess what- that real Cleveland Icon- you know- the guy who has a 80' poster of himself outside Quicken, the guy who has a couple MVPs, and Championship rings- the guy who was practicing with the Cavs when he was in eighth grade- seems he has NO trouble staying out of the spotlight with his personal life. Funny funny you can ditto that with Andrew Luck - managed to get himself the key code to the private entrance at St Elmo's in Indy- just like Peyton Manning when he wants to take his pals out to dinner. Until JFF drops the attention whore attitude, he's going to get everything he's asking for- and a whole lot more.
Some of us old farts have been around long enough to see guys who were stud qbs- and put up huge numbers in the NCAA flame out like a meteor in the NFL. All I think we're saying is if you think Manziel "cant miss" we've seen far too many guys with that tag- miss.
Some of us old farts have been around long enough to see guys who were stud qbs- and put up huge numbers in the NCAA flame out like a meteor in the NFL. All I think we're saying is if you think Manziel "cant miss" we've seen far too many guys with that tag- miss.
This says it all for me......
Ive seen SO many "once in a lifetime" cant miss talents flame out that Ive lost count. And JFF's not even that.....just another #21like weeden and quinn.....
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Add me to those who have been around long enough to see many "star" football players at the college level crash and burn in the nfl. Our skepticism is legitimate. I am also in the same boat as Tour when he mentioned the lack of respect. Johnny hasn't earned my respect yet, either. I think he's been trained to say the right thing, but I have to see that he can consistently do the right thing. That's the part that hasn't impressed me. Add to it the type of offense he ran in college is known for inflating stats and being difficult to follow up at the pro level. Can Johnny run any type of offense or only the kind that has to be catered to him? Offensive coordinators come and go and bring their own schemes with them. Ask RGIII. Are we assuming he can play in poor weather conditions? He never even saw snow until he moved to Cleveland. why would we make the assumption it won't have any affect on his game? I've seen so many comparisons to Russell Wilson, but the fact is, he's not Russell Wilson. Wilson is far more mature, and was running a pro style offense in college for a longer time. Short and quick/agile are the qualities he's shares with Wilson and one of those is a negative for his success at this level. Wilson has overcome that by playing smart. The uber competitiveness coupled with the immaturity is another thing that worries me about Johnny's transition. Will he be able to tame that wild streak that will cause him to throw INT's or take a lot of unnecessary hits? I also totally disagree that Johnny would win these games the same as Hoyer. What proof is there of that at all? Bortles, Carr, and Bridgewater? I have no idea what Johnny will or can be at this level and the fact is, no fan does. The coaches might have some idea by now, but we have none.
I can see Hoyer's limitations, but i also believe he can get better. He's not a rookie in his knowledge of the game, but he is inexperienced as a starter, and coming back from a major knee injury. We know he can learn and run different types of offenses. We know he's never out of the game. We know we have a winning record for the first time in years. We know we can count on him to do the work and prepare. I respect him and I trust him. It seems the team does as well.
It's crazy talk to me to think about benching Hoyer when we're winning for a rookie that we have no guarantees can or will do better.
I feel like we should be thanking Hoyer, not trashing him and trying to run him out of town or put him on the bench. He's put up with a lot through all the Manziel Mania and deserves nothing but respect and gratitude, IMO.
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At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
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At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
I disagree. I'm sure one or two would love nothing more than for Johnny Football to be Johnny Bust, but for the most part, people are concerned with his body, whether his style of play will translate well to the NFL and, if it does, his body will stand up to it. What we (and yes, I'm in this group) are longing to see is him being devoted to the team and the craft in a similar way to Hoyer - who was just as professional I'm sure in his other teams - but instead, in the offseason particularly, we see him up to all sorts of things, and then more news coming out about his off-field distractions - whether he earned it or not.
Personally, I'd love to see him get a game or two at the end of the season if our playoff fate is already determined, as I think he'd be well suited to the offense we have, but there are, IMO, legitimate concerns about his transition to the NFL, both on and off the field.
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I agree, for the most part, people on this site want Johnny to succeed. Undoubtedly, there are many who don't. Whether that's because they like hoyer or don't like Johnny, it's indisputable.
And I get it. Many Aggie fans were glad to see Johnny go. They were tired of the off-field stuff. But my answer to that is that he is the same person on and off the field. You don't respect him. He doesn't care. You don't want him going to Vegas on his own time, hurting nobody in the process, screw you. You have by far the better team and are going to pound his skinny ass, he is not phased and puts 600 yards on you.
Johnny is who he is. The "problems" he has off the field are the same traits that make great coaches hate playing against him on the field. His off-field actions will probably change as he gets older, but he is nowhere near the first guy who likes to have fun off the field and can still thrive on the field.
It won't be easy, and he will have struggles, but it took Hoyer 5 years to become a starter. It's been 8 months since Johnny became a Brown. Cut him some slack. What has he done off the field that's so bad??? Rape? Domestic violence? Drunk driving? Positive drug tests?
No. Commercials, pictures, some idiot accosting him at 2 am, a Vegas trip. Is that really so bad?
And btw, I'm not a young 'un. I just see greatness in Manziel and I can't wait to see him get on the field to prove me right (or wrong).
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Add me to those who have been around long enough to see many "star" football players at the college level crash and burn in the nfl. Our skepticism is legitimate. I am also in the same boat as Tour when he mentioned the lack of respect. Johnny hasn't earned my respect yet, either. I think he's been trained to say the right thing, but I have to see that he can consistently do the right thing. That's the part that hasn't impressed me. Add to it the type of offense he ran in college is known for inflating stats and being difficult to follow up at the pro level. Can Johnny run any type of offense or only the kind that has to be catered to him? Offensive coordinators come and go and bring their own schemes with them. Ask RGIII. Are we assuming he can play in poor weather conditions? He never even saw snow until he moved to Cleveland. why would we make the assumption it won't have any affect on his game? I've seen so many comparisons to Russell Wilson, but the fact is, he's not Russell Wilson. Wilson is far more mature, and was running a pro style offense in college for a longer time. Short and quick/agile are the qualities he's shares with Wilson and one of those is a negative for his success at this level. Wilson has overcome that by playing smart. The uber competitiveness coupled with the immaturity is another thing that worries me about Johnny's transition. Will he be able to tame that wild streak that will cause him to throw INT's or take a lot of unnecessary hits? I also totally disagree that Johnny would win these games the same as Hoyer. What proof is there of that at all? Bortles, Carr, and Bridgewater? I have no idea what Johnny will or can be at this level and the fact is, no fan does. The coaches might have some idea by now, but we have none.
I can see Hoyer's limitations, but i also believe he can get better. He's not a rookie in his knowledge of the game, but he is inexperienced as a starter, and coming back from a major knee injury. We know he can learn and run different types of offenses. We know he's never out of the game. We know we have a winning record for the first time in years. We know we can count on him to do the work and prepare. I respect him and I trust him. It seems the team does as well.
It's crazy talk to me to think about benching Hoyer when we're winning for a rookie that we have no guarantees can or will do better.
I feel like we should be thanking Hoyer, not trashing him and trying to run him out of town or put him on the bench. He's put up with a lot through all the Manziel Mania and deserves nothing but respect and gratitude, IMO.
Can Johnny run any type of offense or only the kind that has to be catered to him? Offensive coordinators come and go and bring their own schemes with them.
Per one of our Senior Ag arrivals, and one of the few that is still here, Sumlin scrapped his Offense to maximize JM's playground style.
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
Yup we read posts... what a concept for a forum...
Some do say "no chance", "wasted pick" and other things. I think the odds started at "not good", but there is a chance. It is dwindling though with every "incident".
- Charlie Frye was hometown. We cut him no slack once it was clear he did not have "it".
- Bernie was hometown... loved him to death, because he loved and wanted us... and he nearly took us to the promised land. It was tough to say good-bye... but for who he was... not where he was from.
- Sipe wasn't hometown, but we loved him just the same.
Johnny is who he is. The "problems" he has off the field are the same traits that make great coaches hate playing against him on the field. His off-field actions will probably change as he gets older, but he is nowhere near the first guy who likes to have fun off the field and can still thrive on the field.
How long do we have to wait?
I assume the common trait is recklessness... yes? Exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good.
The way I put it through our Pre and Post draft JM debates is: Can you take away what makes JM risky without also taking away what makes him special?
I did not think so then. I do not think so now. Thanks for your support...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why?
Listen....we all hear ya.....90% of us.....but, no matter what, there are gonna be people who disagree with you. Especially with a figure as polarizing as Johnny...why bang your head against the wall trying to get EVERYONE to agree with you?.....
The only people who "WANT" JFF to actually fail are people with a personal agenda. Not a Browns agenda. As there is no real fan that doesn't want our players to do well.
So, if someone wants JFF to fail, they are:
A ) A rival fan
B ) A Hoyer homer
C ) Someone that wants to be able to say "I told ya so"
D ) Someone who just doesn't like him personally
So, until he plays and this is settled once and for all, the extremists need to understand that the other extremists aint changing their minds.
10% = POSITIVE he'll be a bust
10% = POSITIVE he'll be a Superstar
80% = Hmmm, dunno, but I sure hope he does well
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Being a professional is NOT just working hard.. being a professional is precisely the daily habits [arrives early, leaves late] that are JFF's weakness.
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Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
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Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
You keep defending his activities, instead understand that "perception" is everything.
Whether they are horrible acts or not...and whether they have an ultimate bearing on his play or not......they create an image that a lot of people dont like.....it's that simple.......like I said above, he is "polarizing".....love him or hate him...
Now, what you should at least TRY to accept, is that GIVEN THE CHOICE, we'd prefer to have a QB who we "perceive" to be mature, likable and hardworking.
Doesn't mean we wont take him. But it's more fun to be a fan when you REALLY like the player and it's easier to get behind them when they are VISIBLY more into the community and the team, than themselves, their brand, trademarks, partying, hanging with celebs, etc........
So, compared to a Bernie, Hoyer, Brady or Manning.....Johnny comes off as a bit of an immature schmuck. And a lot of people would rather he didn't. Thats all.
And PLEASE.....NO NEED to give me the whole "Johnnys great Because" list AGAIN.....I get it, you disagree. I get it. really.
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Mudfly, agreed. I'm in the 80%, though some don't believe that. I am banging my head against a wall when neither of the 10%'ers will be convinced either way til Johnny hits the field.
No more, let's just beat the shit outta the Bills.
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He can't control people's perceptions, and he won't let that change his lifestyle. He is who he is, on the field and off.
Believe it or not, he is likeable and hardworking, but you rarely hear about that.
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