Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Add me to those who have been around long enough to see many "star" football players at the college level crash and burn in the nfl. Our skepticism is legitimate. I am also in the same boat as Tour when he mentioned the lack of respect. Johnny hasn't earned my respect yet, either. I think he's been trained to say the right thing, but I have to see that he can consistently do the right thing. That's the part that hasn't impressed me. Add to it the type of offense he ran in college is known for inflating stats and being difficult to follow up at the pro level. Can Johnny run any type of offense or only the kind that has to be catered to him? Offensive coordinators come and go and bring their own schemes with them. Ask RGIII. Are we assuming he can play in poor weather conditions? He never even saw snow until he moved to Cleveland. why would we make the assumption it won't have any affect on his game? I've seen so many comparisons to Russell Wilson, but the fact is, he's not Russell Wilson. Wilson is far more mature, and was running a pro style offense in college for a longer time. Short and quick/agile are the qualities he's shares with Wilson and one of those is a negative for his success at this level. Wilson has overcome that by playing smart. The uber competitiveness coupled with the immaturity is another thing that worries me about Johnny's transition. Will he be able to tame that wild streak that will cause him to throw INT's or take a lot of unnecessary hits? I also totally disagree that Johnny would win these games the same as Hoyer. What proof is there of that at all? Bortles, Carr, and Bridgewater? I have no idea what Johnny will or can be at this level and the fact is, no fan does. The coaches might have some idea by now, but we have none.
I can see Hoyer's limitations, but i also believe he can get better. He's not a rookie in his knowledge of the game, but he is inexperienced as a starter, and coming back from a major knee injury. We know he can learn and run different types of offenses. We know he's never out of the game. We know we have a winning record for the first time in years. We know we can count on him to do the work and prepare. I respect him and I trust him. It seems the team does as well.
It's crazy talk to me to think about benching Hoyer when we're winning for a rookie that we have no guarantees can or will do better.
I feel like we should be thanking Hoyer, not trashing him and trying to run him out of town or put him on the bench. He's put up with a lot through all the Manziel Mania and deserves nothing but respect and gratitude, IMO.
Can Johnny run any type of offense or only the kind that has to be catered to him? Offensive coordinators come and go and bring their own schemes with them.
Per one of our Senior Ag arrivals, and one of the few that is still here, Sumlin scrapped his Offense to maximize JM's playground style.
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
Yup we read posts... what a concept for a forum...
Some do say "no chance", "wasted pick" and other things. I think the odds started at "not good", but there is a chance. It is dwindling though with every "incident".
- Charlie Frye was hometown. We cut him no slack once it was clear he did not have "it".
- Bernie was hometown... loved him to death, because he loved and wanted us... and he nearly took us to the promised land. It was tough to say good-bye... but for who he was... not where he was from.
- Sipe wasn't hometown, but we loved him just the same.
Johnny is who he is. The "problems" he has off the field are the same traits that make great coaches hate playing against him on the field. His off-field actions will probably change as he gets older, but he is nowhere near the first guy who likes to have fun off the field and can still thrive on the field.
How long do we have to wait?
I assume the common trait is recklessness... yes? Exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good.
The way I put it through our Pre and Post draft JM debates is: Can you take away what makes JM risky without also taking away what makes him special?
I did not think so then. I do not think so now. Thanks for your support...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why?
Listen....we all hear ya.....90% of us.....but, no matter what, there are gonna be people who disagree with you. Especially with a figure as polarizing as Johnny...why bang your head against the wall trying to get EVERYONE to agree with you?.....
The only people who "WANT" JFF to actually fail are people with a personal agenda. Not a Browns agenda. As there is no real fan that doesn't want our players to do well.
So, if someone wants JFF to fail, they are:
A ) A rival fan
B ) A Hoyer homer
C ) Someone that wants to be able to say "I told ya so"
D ) Someone who just doesn't like him personally
So, until he plays and this is settled once and for all, the extremists need to understand that the other extremists aint changing their minds.
10% = POSITIVE he'll be a bust
10% = POSITIVE he'll be a Superstar
80% = Hmmm, dunno, but I sure hope he does well
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Being a professional is NOT just working hard.. being a professional is precisely the daily habits [arrives early, leaves late] that are JFF's weakness.
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Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
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Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
You keep defending his activities, instead understand that "perception" is everything.
Whether they are horrible acts or not...and whether they have an ultimate bearing on his play or not......they create an image that a lot of people dont like.....it's that simple.......like I said above, he is "polarizing".....love him or hate him...
Now, what you should at least TRY to accept, is that GIVEN THE CHOICE, we'd prefer to have a QB who we "perceive" to be mature, likable and hardworking.
Doesn't mean we wont take him. But it's more fun to be a fan when you REALLY like the player and it's easier to get behind them when they are VISIBLY more into the community and the team, than themselves, their brand, trademarks, partying, hanging with celebs, etc........
So, compared to a Bernie, Hoyer, Brady or Manning.....Johnny comes off as a bit of an immature schmuck. And a lot of people would rather he didn't. Thats all.
And PLEASE.....NO NEED to give me the whole "Johnnys great Because" list AGAIN.....I get it, you disagree. I get it. really.
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Mudfly, agreed. I'm in the 80%, though some don't believe that. I am banging my head against a wall when neither of the 10%'ers will be convinced either way til Johnny hits the field.
No more, let's just beat the shit outta the Bills.
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He can't control people's perceptions, and he won't let that change his lifestyle. He is who he is, on the field and off.
Believe it or not, he is likeable and hardworking, but you rarely hear about that.
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I'm with you on Hoyer, he has exceeded all expectations and it should be his team the rest of the season, barring something crazy happening.
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Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
Did anyone use the adjective "horrible" besides you?
It's called a "pattern of behavior".
While I know you'd prefer that use of JM's collegiate record be restricted to on-field performance, there were a few incidents back then as well.
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No, you call them "incidents". They are not that, either. They are overblown reactions to a guy living his life.
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I'm talking about since he was a brown. But I would expect you to bring that up since its 2 and a half years ago. Whatever, it proves my point even more. Even with this arrest, he went on to have a great two years at A&M.
Off-field pictures, trips to Vegas, etc, will have NOTHIMG to do with his success or failure in the NFL.
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At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
I wasn't really calling him a bust.....at least that is not my intent. I merely pointed out that mathematically about 50% of the people in his same situation, i.e. first round QBs were historically busts. That is a concern for the Browns fans....as this team has contributed mightily to that stat with the likes of Quinn/Weeden/Phipps/Agannis/Garrett. (and I was not even counting Couch as a bust)
I am only hoping that they odds turn in our favor for once.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
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I agree, for the most part, people on this site want Johnny to succeed. Undoubtedly, there are many who don't. Whether that's because they like hoyer or don't like Johnny, it's indisputable.
And I get it. Many Aggie fans were glad to see Johnny go. They were tired of the off-field stuff. But my answer to that is that he is the same person on and off the field. You don't respect him. He doesn't care. You don't want him going to Vegas on his own time, hurting nobody in the process, screw you. You have by far the better team and are going to pound his skinny ass, he is not phased and puts 600 yards on you.
Johnny is who he is. The "problems" he has off the field are the same traits that make great coaches hate playing against him on the field. His off-field actions will probably change as he gets older, but he is nowhere near the first guy who likes to have fun off the field and can still thrive on the field.
It won't be easy, and he will have struggles, but it took Hoyer 5 years to become a starter. It's been 8 months since Johnny became a Brown. Cut him some slack. What has he done off the field that's so bad??? Rape? Domestic violence? Drunk driving? Positive drug tests?
No. Commercials, pictures, some idiot accosting him at 2 am, a Vegas trip. Is that really so bad?
And btw, I'm not a young 'un. I just see greatness in Manziel and I can't wait to see him get on the field to prove me right (or wrong).
I agree, for the most part, people on this site want Johnny to succeed. Undoubtedly, there are many who don't. Whether that's because they like hoyer or don't like Johnny, it's indisputable.
Or, I think a lot are against Johnny not because they are against Johnny but because they are against the army of Johnny sycophants.
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Can Johnny run any type of offense or only the kind that has to be catered to him? Offensive coordinators come and go and bring their own schemes with them.
Per one of our Senior Ag arrivals, and one of the few that is still here, Sumlin scrapped his Offense to maximize JM's playground style.
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
Yup we read posts... what a concept for a forum...
Some do say "no chance", "wasted pick" and other things. I think the odds started at "not good", but there is a chance. It is dwindling though with every "incident".
- Charlie Frye was hometown. We cut him no slack once it was clear he did not have "it".
- Bernie was hometown... loved him to death, because he loved and wanted us... and he nearly took us to the promised land. It was tough to say good-bye... but for who he was... not where he was from.
- Sipe wasn't hometown, but we loved him just the same.
Johnny is who he is. The "problems" he has off the field are the same traits that make great coaches hate playing against him on the field. His off-field actions will probably change as he gets older, but he is nowhere near the first guy who likes to have fun off the field and can still thrive on the field.
How long do we have to wait?
I assume the common trait is recklessness... yes? Exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good.
The way I put it through our Pre and Post draft JM debates is: Can you take away what makes JM risky without also taking away what makes him special?
I did not think so then. I do not think so now. Thanks for your support...
Per one of our Senior Ag arrivals, and one of the few that is still here, Sumlin scrapped his Offense to maximize JM's playground style.
Yup we read posts... what a concept for a forum...
Some do say "no chance", "wasted pick" and other things. I think the odds started at "not good", but there is a chance. It is dwindling though with every "incident".
- Charlie Frye was hometown. We cut him no slack once it was clear he did not have "it".
- Bernie was hometown... loved him to death, because he loved and wanted us... and he nearly took us to the promised land. It was tough to say good-bye... but for who he was... not where he was from.
- Sipe wasn't hometown, but we loved him just the same.
How long do we have to wait?
I assume the common trait is recklessness... yes? Exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good.
The way I put it through our Pre and Post draft JM debates is: Can you take away what makes JM risky without also taking away what makes him special?
I did not think so then. I do not think so now. Thanks for your support...
See this is the kind of stuff im talking about "exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good."... what is that? Johnny has the same odds as everyone else. Actaully.. his odds are better than most others due to his draft vstatus.. as there are more successful QBs drafted in the first round than any other round... Period.
Also to addres your Brian Hoyer comment.. c'mon.. do you really think if Brian Hoyer wasnt from Cleveland that he wouldnt have been pulled by now? Honestly? He never would have had had as much fan support if he wasnt from here... it has been made a very big deal. Yes his play backed it up.. but it wouldve been much EASIER for the staff to make a change if he wasnt.
Being a professional is NOT just working hard.. being a professional is precisely the daily habits [arrives early, leaves late] that are JFF's weakness.
weaknesses?
Johnny as said by the coaching staff is the epitome of a profesisonal in building. Hes in the playbook.. comes in early stays late gets extra reps in with the WRs.. he's done all that. o Im not sure where you are getting this from?
The only difference between him and Hoyer is Brian has a wife.. Johnny doesnt.. so when Johnny is out on the town.. Brian is home watching movies with his wife.
How does these 2 things affect football? Do you think Brian is at home breaking down film with his wife.. going over X's and O's? get real.. they all have free time.. just because Johnny spends his out and about doesnt make him any less of a professional
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/11/johnny_manziel_has_his_say_abo.html
BEREA, Ohio -- Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel gave his version of the fight story from Friday night, stressing that he was accosted by a "very intoxicated, very aggressive person'' who was "putting his hands on'' Manziel and "toying'' with him.
Here are few excerpts:
"My mom was in town over the course of this past week, ended up going to dinner with my mother and my roommate. As I got back to my apartment (at The 9) later that night, my apartment is located in the lobby of a hotel as well, and as I was waiting for an elevator, I was approached by what has been made out to be a fan.
"And at this point in the night this was a very intoxicated, very aggressive person that approached me in the lobby, putting his hands on me, kind of toying with me as I got back, just kind of trying to kind my own business and get upstairs to my room.
"As this man kept attempting to come at me, just being extremely aggressive, and as we tried to coax him into getting into his elevator and going on about the night, the guy got very aggressive and luckily for us....security was able to get things under wraps.
"(He) came at my roommate. It all happened very fast...There was no entourage with me. I was with one other person and my mother was upstairs, so it's about as much entourage as you get being with my mom.
"As it escalated and it got a little out of control, security got it under wraps and I was able to get up into my room.''
He said it was a situation that "tried to be averted at all costs and one that unfortunately (I was) not able to really get away from.''
Manziel's face showed no signs that someone "smashed him in the face, smashed him, smashed him'' as Sandusky native Chris Gonos, the man who first approached Manziel, described to clevescene.com.
Manziel wouldn't say if he was hit or if he threw punches. Gonos told clevescene.com that Manziel "sucker-punched'' his brother. Manziel said it was more about what was happening to his roommate, Dana Kirk. He declined to elaborate on the details of the scuffle.
He said neither he nor Kirk plans to press charges and that the security video would corroborate his version of the story.
More to come soon on Manziel's version of events.
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Browns board becoming TMZ.
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That makes me feel even better about it. Tell em how it is Johnny!
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Good to hear his side.
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