Jonathan Paul Manziel
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He can't control people's perceptions, and he won't let that change his lifestyle. He is who he is, on the field and off.
Believe it or not, he is likeable and hardworking, but you rarely hear about that.
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I'm with you on Hoyer, he has exceeded all expectations and it should be his team the rest of the season, barring something crazy happening.
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Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
Not recklessness, fearlessness. I admit, one can turn into the other, but I wouldn't call him reckless. He May always have such terrible off-field "incidents" as:
1. Going to cavs games and hanging out with Lebron.
2. Using his own money to go to places like Vegas.
3. Having pictures taken of him at those places.
4. Trying to get into his home when accosted by someone who recognizes him.
These horrible "incidents" will have no bearing on his success or failure.
But I'm sure the rest of the league is crying in their glasses of tea while reading the Bible when they hear about these terrible "incidents" Johnny is involved in.
Did anyone use the adjective "horrible" besides you?
It's called a "pattern of behavior".
While I know you'd prefer that use of JM's collegiate record be restricted to on-field performance, there were a few incidents back then as well.
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No, you call them "incidents". They are not that, either. They are overblown reactions to a guy living his life.
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I'm talking about since he was a brown. But I would expect you to bring that up since its 2 and a half years ago. Whatever, it proves my point even more. Even with this arrest, he went on to have a great two years at A&M.
Off-field pictures, trips to Vegas, etc, will have NOTHIMG to do with his success or failure in the NFL.
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At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
Im not saying Johnny is "Cant Miss".. There is no such thing.. not even Luck or Manning were "Cant Miss" prospects.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
I wasn't really calling him a bust.....at least that is not my intent. I merely pointed out that mathematically about 50% of the people in his same situation, i.e. first round QBs were historically busts. That is a concern for the Browns fans....as this team has contributed mightily to that stat with the likes of Quinn/Weeden/Phipps/Agannis/Garrett. (and I was not even counting Couch as a bust)
I am only hoping that they odds turn in our favor for once.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
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I agree, for the most part, people on this site want Johnny to succeed. Undoubtedly, there are many who don't. Whether that's because they like hoyer or don't like Johnny, it's indisputable.
And I get it. Many Aggie fans were glad to see Johnny go. They were tired of the off-field stuff. But my answer to that is that he is the same person on and off the field. You don't respect him. He doesn't care. You don't want him going to Vegas on his own time, hurting nobody in the process, screw you. You have by far the better team and are going to pound his skinny ass, he is not phased and puts 600 yards on you.
Johnny is who he is. The "problems" he has off the field are the same traits that make great coaches hate playing against him on the field. His off-field actions will probably change as he gets older, but he is nowhere near the first guy who likes to have fun off the field and can still thrive on the field.
It won't be easy, and he will have struggles, but it took Hoyer 5 years to become a starter. It's been 8 months since Johnny became a Brown. Cut him some slack. What has he done off the field that's so bad??? Rape? Domestic violence? Drunk driving? Positive drug tests?
No. Commercials, pictures, some idiot accosting him at 2 am, a Vegas trip. Is that really so bad?
And btw, I'm not a young 'un. I just see greatness in Manziel and I can't wait to see him get on the field to prove me right (or wrong).
I agree, for the most part, people on this site want Johnny to succeed. Undoubtedly, there are many who don't. Whether that's because they like hoyer or don't like Johnny, it's indisputable.
Or, I think a lot are against Johnny not because they are against Johnny but because they are against the army of Johnny sycophants.
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Can Johnny run any type of offense or only the kind that has to be catered to him? Offensive coordinators come and go and bring their own schemes with them.
Per one of our Senior Ag arrivals, and one of the few that is still here, Sumlin scrapped his Offense to maximize JM's playground style.
At least I know what Im saying isnt falling on Deaf ears.
What I am trying to curb is people calling him a bust and saying he has no chance in the NFL before he even sets foot on the field.
Im guessing the raging against Manziel is all Hyperbole due to the neccesity of protecting the Home Town Hero who is winning us games.. I get it.. really I do.. we are winning and I am happy, and I thank Brian for all he has done. However I just cant help but feel due to some of the responses in this thread and others that for some reason.. SOME people.. WANT Johnny to fail. They WANT our first round draft pick who we traded up to get to fail.. why? BEcause they just dont like him. They dont like the way he plays, or the way he walks, talks, etc.. Which I can understand for some types of people.. but dont wish for him to fail. He wears Brown and Orange.. and as long as those are the colors he represents.. we should support him
Yup we read posts... what a concept for a forum...
Some do say "no chance", "wasted pick" and other things. I think the odds started at "not good", but there is a chance. It is dwindling though with every "incident".
- Charlie Frye was hometown. We cut him no slack once it was clear he did not have "it".
- Bernie was hometown... loved him to death, because he loved and wanted us... and he nearly took us to the promised land. It was tough to say good-bye... but for who he was... not where he was from.
- Sipe wasn't hometown, but we loved him just the same.
Johnny is who he is. The "problems" he has off the field are the same traits that make great coaches hate playing against him on the field. His off-field actions will probably change as he gets older, but he is nowhere near the first guy who likes to have fun off the field and can still thrive on the field.
How long do we have to wait?
I assume the common trait is recklessness... yes? Exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good.
The way I put it through our Pre and Post draft JM debates is: Can you take away what makes JM risky without also taking away what makes him special?
I did not think so then. I do not think so now. Thanks for your support...
Per one of our Senior Ag arrivals, and one of the few that is still here, Sumlin scrapped his Offense to maximize JM's playground style.
Yup we read posts... what a concept for a forum...
Some do say "no chance", "wasted pick" and other things. I think the odds started at "not good", but there is a chance. It is dwindling though with every "incident".
- Charlie Frye was hometown. We cut him no slack once it was clear he did not have "it".
- Bernie was hometown... loved him to death, because he loved and wanted us... and he nearly took us to the promised land. It was tough to say good-bye... but for who he was... not where he was from.
- Sipe wasn't hometown, but we loved him just the same.
How long do we have to wait?
I assume the common trait is recklessness... yes? Exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good.
The way I put it through our Pre and Post draft JM debates is: Can you take away what makes JM risky without also taking away what makes him special?
I did not think so then. I do not think so now. Thanks for your support...
See this is the kind of stuff im talking about "exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good."... what is that? Johnny has the same odds as everyone else. Actaully.. his odds are better than most others due to his draft vstatus.. as there are more successful QBs drafted in the first round than any other round... Period.
Also to addres your Brian Hoyer comment.. c'mon.. do you really think if Brian Hoyer wasnt from Cleveland that he wouldnt have been pulled by now? Honestly? He never would have had had as much fan support if he wasnt from here... it has been made a very big deal. Yes his play backed it up.. but it wouldve been much EASIER for the staff to make a change if he wasnt.
Being a professional is NOT just working hard.. being a professional is precisely the daily habits [arrives early, leaves late] that are JFF's weakness.
weaknesses?
Johnny as said by the coaching staff is the epitome of a profesisonal in building. Hes in the playbook.. comes in early stays late gets extra reps in with the WRs.. he's done all that. o Im not sure where you are getting this from?
The only difference between him and Hoyer is Brian has a wife.. Johnny doesnt.. so when Johnny is out on the town.. Brian is home watching movies with his wife.
How does these 2 things affect football? Do you think Brian is at home breaking down film with his wife.. going over X's and O's? get real.. they all have free time.. just because Johnny spends his out and about doesnt make him any less of a professional
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/11/johnny_manziel_has_his_say_abo.html
BEREA, Ohio -- Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel gave his version of the fight story from Friday night, stressing that he was accosted by a "very intoxicated, very aggressive person'' who was "putting his hands on'' Manziel and "toying'' with him.
Here are few excerpts:
"My mom was in town over the course of this past week, ended up going to dinner with my mother and my roommate. As I got back to my apartment (at The 9) later that night, my apartment is located in the lobby of a hotel as well, and as I was waiting for an elevator, I was approached by what has been made out to be a fan.
"And at this point in the night this was a very intoxicated, very aggressive person that approached me in the lobby, putting his hands on me, kind of toying with me as I got back, just kind of trying to kind my own business and get upstairs to my room.
"As this man kept attempting to come at me, just being extremely aggressive, and as we tried to coax him into getting into his elevator and going on about the night, the guy got very aggressive and luckily for us....security was able to get things under wraps.
"(He) came at my roommate. It all happened very fast...There was no entourage with me. I was with one other person and my mother was upstairs, so it's about as much entourage as you get being with my mom.
"As it escalated and it got a little out of control, security got it under wraps and I was able to get up into my room.''
He said it was a situation that "tried to be averted at all costs and one that unfortunately (I was) not able to really get away from.''
Manziel's face showed no signs that someone "smashed him in the face, smashed him, smashed him'' as Sandusky native Chris Gonos, the man who first approached Manziel, described to clevescene.com.
Manziel wouldn't say if he was hit or if he threw punches. Gonos told clevescene.com that Manziel "sucker-punched'' his brother. Manziel said it was more about what was happening to his roommate, Dana Kirk. He declined to elaborate on the details of the scuffle.
He said neither he nor Kirk plans to press charges and that the security video would corroborate his version of the story.
More to come soon on Manziel's version of events.
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Browns board becoming TMZ.
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That makes me feel even better about it. Tell em how it is Johnny!
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Good to hear his side.
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Better to just see the video and be done with it.
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He can't control people's perceptions, and he won't let that change his lifestyle. He is who he is, on the field and off.
Believe it or not, he is likeable and hardworking, but you rarely hear about that.
He can't control people's perceptions, and he won't let that change his lifestyle. He is who he is, on the field and off.
Believe it or not, he is likeable and hardworking, but you rarely hear about that.
Well, before this likable and hard working guy showed up for training camp in August- he was acting like a drunken sailor with a big wad of cash on shore leave. Sorry if that's the perception a lot of Browns fans got.
I'm talking about since he was a brown. But I would expect you to bring that up since its 2 and a half years ago. Whatever, it proves my point even more. Even with this arrest, he went on to have a great two years at A&M.
Off-field pictures, trips to Vegas, etc, will have NOTHING to do with his success or failure in the NFL.
Some guys can pull that off- like Ken Stabler, Joe Namath, and Charles Barkley. That would be AFTER they've made a name for themselves in the pros- not before. I'm not going to rehash all the bozo stuff he pulled post draft, pre training camp- it's been beaten to death, save one example. Hell, Mike Vick got thrown in jail and got a pass after he cleaned up his act. What did Agasse's commercial say "Image is Everything"? Sorry if JFF's off-field "image" needs some cleaning up. You don't have to be a saint- but having a drunk youtube flashing the "money phone" didn't exactly endear you to a lot of fans. As Tour said- immaturity.
So if Manziel wants to flip off the rest of the world- "F-you this is who I am", well it's a two way street. Plenty of the rest of the world is saying "F-you we don't like who you are.".
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If Johnny turns out to be a Superbowl winning QB for the Browns, he can flip off my mom.
It would be tough defending that to my mom, because she's not really a football fan, but that's a sacrifice l'm willing to make.
Seriously. My mom would be pissed, but l would do my damnedest to make her understand.
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If Johnny turns out to be a Superbowl winning QB for the Browns, he can flip off my mom.
It would be tough defending that to my mom, because she's not really a football fan, but that's a sacrifice l'm willing to make.
Seriously. My mom would be pissed, but l would do my damnedest to make her understand.
If Johnny turns out to be a Superbowl winning QB for the Browns, he can flip off my mom.
It would be tough defending that to my mom, because she's not really a football fan, but that's a sacrifice l'm willing to make.
Seriously. My mom would be pissed, but l would do my damnedest to make her understand.
Well, he already flipped off the fans in a preseason game- so he's practicing.
Listening to ESPN tonight- that's a slippery slope. Not saying Manziel is going to do this sort of stuff- but where's your cutoff to a player, any player where "I don't care what he does, as long as he wins?"
Love Boat chicks? Daunte Culpepper, Bryant McKinnie?
Bust up bars? Packman Jones?
Kill dogs? Vick?
Beat girlfriends senseless? Rice, Hardy?
Get drunk and run over a pedestrian? Donte Stalworth?
Saw a couple guys get killed , but I don't really remember what happened? Ray Lewis.?
I could go on to a couple others that are in jail- Rae Carruth, or dead- Bengals Chris Henry.
See what I mean?
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I was 15 when the Browns beat the Baltimore Colts 27-0 in 1964. Having been a diehard Browns fan for 65 years I'm behind any man that is QB for the Cleveland Browns. I'm so sick of these Anti-Manziel posts. Will he be a bust or HOF QB? No one will know until he plays. And I love the home Town kid Hoyer but if anyone thinks he is a franchise QB and will lead this team to the play-offs your going to be sadly mistaken. His production is falling off week by week. Only the stupidity of Atlanta's HC with clock management saved us from a loss to a sub 500 team. No way the Browns are going to pay Hoyer what he thinks he's worth. Big desions await the Browns front office. If we lose to the Bills I would play Manziel the rest of the season to atleast find out what you have before the 2015 draft. JMHO.
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He can't control people's perceptions, and he won't let that change his lifestyle. He is who he is, on the field and off.
Believe it or not, he is likeable and hardworking, but you rarely hear about that.
He can't control people's perceptions, and he won't let that change his lifestyle. He is who he is, on the field and off.
Believe it or not, he is likeable and hardworking, but you rarely hear about that.
Yes, he can control perceptions by controlling the circumstances he puts himself in. If that means he has to sacrifice a little of who he is, what he chooses to do, then so be it.
I believe he "works hard" at a game... a pastime, just like I work hard at my hobbies. But nothing I put into a hobby has ever come close to the "hard work" I put into my profession, my "job". Nothing, not even the year I "devoted" to my golf game when I took my stroke index from 18.1 to 9.9, ever came close to working hard at work.
I'm talking about since he was a brown. But I would expect you to bring that up since its 2 and a half years ago. Whatever, it proves my point even more. Even with this arrest, he went on to have a great two years at A&M.
Off-field pictures, trips to Vegas, etc, will have NOTHIMG to do with his success or failure in the NFL.
I am glad I did not fail you. And know that you did not fail me. For "I knew" that in your world, referring to JM's on-field exploits at A&M would be perfectly acceptable to any discussion, whereas his off-field would not be. Why is that?
What I did not expect, however, is that you would demonstrate both in a single sentence now underlined for posterity. Well done...
See this is the kind of stuff im talking about "exactly why I did not want to draft him high and still believe the odds of his success at the Pro level are not good."... what is that?
An opinion?
Johnny has the same odds as everyone else. Actaully.. his odds are better than most others due to his draft vstatus.. as there are more successful QBs drafted in the first round than any other round... Period.
Do you understand how odds work?
By "Draft status" (I assume the 'v' was a typo) you seem to be referring to JM being a first rounder. I think Gip has shown time and again that the chances of a first rounder "making it" are indeed the highest overall at around 50/50, but vary very little with position within the first round... a good thing for JM since we was drafted #22. So the odds are that 1 in 2 first rounders will make it.
In 2014 there were 3 QBs taken in the first round, Bortles, Manziel, and Bridgewater. As more of them show promise in their rookie seasons, the odds that the remaining #1's will make it drop.
Luckily for you Carr just missed inclusion at 36th overall or I think from an odds perspective, it would be all over. As it is, however, it's going to be a while before we see whether the top of the 2014 QB Class exceeds or underperforms the odds.
Also to addres your Brian Hoyer comment.. c'mon.. do you really think if Brian Hoyer wasnt from Cleveland that he wouldnt have been pulled by now? Honestly?
Absolutely... hand to your preferred deity... I think where BH was born and raised has nothing to do with him still starting... and I have Charlie Frye to prove it... and Charlie did not even have a hotshot, Heisman baby sitting behind him.
Do you really think that if JM was ready, that BH's performance to date would have kept JM on the sideline this long? Be honest...
He never would have had had as much fan support if he wasnt from here... it has been made a very big deal. Yes his play backed it up.. but it wouldve been much EASIER for the staff to make a change if he wasnt.
First, Why would a staff make a change if "his play back(s)" up his starting? Shouldn't that alone rule out a starter change?
Second, are you sure that Hoyer's homie pressure was greater than Manziel's Star power at:
- Pre-season game 3?
- season start?
- Week 5 coming out of the bye at 1-2?
- Week 7, after JAX?
Third, name one other move that this staff has made that was dictated, or even influenced, by fan pressure.
I'm not in NE Ohio to guage the homer talk first hand. I get that it is mentioned in every article, but to me as a colorful sideline, not job-insuring hype. That you and other JM supporters raise it as a determining factor simply indicate, IMO, that you have to rationalize JM's continued benching... and that is all you have.
weaknesses?
Yes... immaturity and his accompanying lack of self-discipline...
Johnny as said by the coaching staff is the epitome of a profesisonal in building. Hes in the playbook.. comes in early stays late gets extra reps in with the WRs.. he's done all that. o Im not sure where you are getting this from?
I remember those comments, but when was the last time you saw them? I ask because I have not in a while. What I have seen is that he is still, surprisingly, not ready to play. It was one of the "sources inside the Browns" things, so I take it with a grain of salt, but it better fits the circumstances, as I see them, than your Hometown theory.
The only difference between him and Hoyer is Brian has a wife.. Johnny doesnt.. so when Johnny is out on the town.. Brian is home watching movies with his wife.
How does these 2 things affect football? Do you think Brian is at home breaking down film with his wife.. going over X's and O's? get real.. they all have free time.. just because Johnny spends his out and about doesnt make him any less of a professional
How much would you like to bet that he hasn't watched game film with his wife?
Home resting, taking care of your body vs. partying until the wee hours night before the night before a game? No difference? No "impact"?
Guess not... if you're not the starter...
I was 15 when the Browns beat the Baltimore Colts 27-0 in 1964. Having been a diehard Browns fan for 65 years I'm behind any man that is QB for the Cleveland Browns. I'm so sick of these Anti-Manziel posts. Will he be a bust or HOF QB? No one will know until he plays. And I love the home Town kid Hoyer but if anyone thinks he is a franchise QB and will lead this team to the play-offs your going to be sadly mistaken. His production is falling off week by week. Only the stupidity of Atlanta's HC with clock management saved us from a loss to a sub 500 team. No way the Browns are going to pay Hoyer what he thinks he's worth. Big desions await the Browns front office. If we lose to the Bills I would play Manziel the rest of the season to atleast find out what you have before the 2015 draft. JMHO.
Cool... another member that is older than I am... albeit only slightly.
Welcome to the Hoyer train...
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