Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I thought Manziel was being very honest - in the game, he hesitated, and screwed up.
I met a Bengal fan at the Dallas airport last night - I congratulated him for a great payback,
even though I only like paybacks when it's the Browns doing the paybacking...
He was a classy guy - said the Browns humiliated Dalton and the Bengals at home, and
it was the Bengals' turn - and the Browns have injuries etc. Said the Browns were getting
very close, though, to being a power in the division - which will be great next year when they
fill in a few more pieces, because they hate the Steelers.
I just think that Hawkins was the distracting factor, and let the team down in their focus.
And the Bengals were sky high with emotion - the Browns, not so much. and...
Hoyer would have played a lot better, but the Browns would still have lost.
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Otto Graham and Joe Theismann both used to play QBs and return punts. JFF would do no worse at the job than who we have doing it now.
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All I heard all week was that Shanny would call plays to Johnny's strengths. Well that didn't happen
No one EVER thought Johnny could stand back there and read defenses.
But yet that's what we did.
I saw 1 and I mean 1 REAL rollout play. Not that would have helped, but it hurt BIG TIME
also the bungles were 27th against the run, we ran right up the middle ALL DAY
All I heard all week was that Shanny would call plays to Johnny's strengths. Well that didn't happen
No one EVER thought Johnny could stand back there and read defenses. But yet that's what we did.
I saw 1 and I mean 1 REAL rollout play. Not that would have helped, but it hurt BIG TIME
Just what passing plays do not require reads? Roll outs simply cut the field in half.
And then there's the pre-snap reads that include line calls. Not sure if BH had been involved in those, but I am pretty sure JM was not. Still want to see this asked.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
All I heard all week was that Shanny would call plays to Johnny's strengths. Well that didn't happen
No one EVER thought Johnny could stand back there and read defenses.
But yet that's what we did.
I saw 1 and I mean 1 REAL rollout play. Not that would have helped, but it hurt BIG TIME
also the bungles were 27th against the run, we ran right up the middle ALL DAY
All I heard all week was that Shanny would call plays to Johnny's strengths. Well that didn't happen
No one EVER thought Johnny could stand back there and read defenses.
But yet that's what we did.
I saw 1 and I mean 1 REAL rollout play. Not that would have helped, but it hurt BIG TIME
also the bungles were 27th against the run, we ran right up the middle ALL DAY
Holy fuck, you're kidding right? Those who wanted Manziel to start, what did you expect him to do? Take a snap and just wait to see someone run open?
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@everlastingxxx said:
Nothing to laugh about when your team is losing. I'm old school, that's just how I see it.
I thought you were too young to be "old school".
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Oh come on Z, a punt returner?? He's way too slow for that....... Holder maybe?
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Hoyer: Johnny you suck! haha
Johnny: I can't believe Haslam is paying this much to suck! haha
Shanny: I need a fucking QB
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I think Brandon Weedon looked better on his first start, and on a lot worse team.
At this point might as well let Midge finish the season, but if he looks like he does after another two games, I wouldn't commit a season next season.
There was a reason that Brady Quinn slipped in the draft. There might be a reason Colt Manziel slid, too. And we probably didn't need to trade up to get him....
You might be a Retard. On his first start, Weeden threw 4 picks and got stuck underneath the flag.
You might be a Retard. On his first start, Weeden threw 4 picks and got stuck underneath the flag.
God the flag moment was so good.
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I think he breaks down and tries to improvise plays too quickly. I think he is a college qb whose game won't translate well to the NFL. I thought he would be a bust, and I was pissed that we picked him. All that being said, he is our guy for now and probably next year so I am going to try and be as optimistic as I can. I think (more like hope) if we build the team we are trying to build, and he matures in his game, he could be our Russell Wilson.
Everyone saying how awful he was needs to calm down, this loss is not on him. This was one of the worst overall games I have seen by us I can remember. Everything sucked. After all the smack talk by the bungles, in a must win, playoff atmosphere, at home, to come out and play like that is disgraceful. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was like our whole team conspired to suck because JF was in. We were suppose to play like last week, I'd like to see what he can do with us playing at that level.
The premature bailing out of the pocket was in evidence yesterday.
Exact same pre-draft analysis here.
Exact same post-draft hopes as well. Better skill set than Wilson. Question is "the head".
I know you are not suggesting that the whole team actually "conspired to suck", but I think it is fair to say that they were looking for inspiration from JM that never came.
I know you are not suggesting that the whole team actually "conspired to suck", but I think it is fair to say that they were looking for inspiration from JM that never came.
Yea I wasn't suggesting that but you are right that johnny showed nothing inspiring yesterday. Even with the team sucking, a couple decent plays, which people said he could make by himself when the rest of the team was sucking, would have maybe gotten some sort of spark out of the team. Maybe at least enough for a TD, a fg, anything. Instead he just maybe inspirationally bad rookie plays and throws.
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Don't really see what this has to do with the original post but again you misrepresented what he had to say in the press conference. That's all.And analyzers gonna analyze...
Specific names? Correct, none mentioned save Hawk (except in passing), and Hawk's was a positive ref. But I do not feel I am misrepresenting anything, Steve. There is a fair amount of the all inclusive "We have to play better"... same as Hoyer.
Just did a count..
I's - ~18 including a surprising amount of deluded, self-appraisal, e.g. "I did not think the game was too fast for me." "I was prepared."
We's - ~22 including the above example plus, "team thing" and "we did not make plays on 3rd down."
My original point was simply that many statements were identical to those Hoyer made in his pressers. Statements that lovers here jumped upon...
Lovers gonna love...
He did not shy away from the blame.
(and from my point of view the other facets of the game or a lot worse than they were last week. A lot.)
And he sucked too.
WSS
Don't really see what this has to do with the original post but again you misrepresented what he had to say in the press conference. That's all.
I restated what I originally said, but you appeared to not comprehend. I took a shot.
JM said what I said he said. A lot of we's... even gave you a count.
He said other stuff as well, credible "my bad" stuff. And he said other stuff that was self-serving and delusional.
You think I'm misrepresenting...
I think you're being intentionally dense...
Let's move on.
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All I heard all week was that Shanny would call plays to Johnny's strengths. Well that didn't happen
No one EVER thought Johnny could stand back there and read defenses.
But yet that's what we did.
I saw 1 and I mean 1 REAL rollout play. Not that would have helped, but it hurt BIG TIME
also the bungles were 27th against the run, we ran right up the middle ALL DAY
No one EVER thought Johnny could stand back there and read defenses.
Which is the reason so many didn't want to pick him in the first place
But yet that's what we did.
Because thats what NFL QB's need to do to succeed in this league
I saw 1 and I mean 1 REAL rollout play. Not that would have helped, but it hurt BIG TIME
Im confused. Your mad that he stayed in the pocket, but mad that he rolled out?
also the bungles were 27th against the run, we ran right up the middle ALL DAY
Confused again. So we were wrong to run at the 27th worst run defense?
Your killing me with this stuff. Next thing you know you'll be blaming this loss on the coin toss
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Oh we can certainly move on bud. I'm not angry, & I hope you're not. It seems to me the point you want to make is that someone here thought Brian Hoyer failed to take enough personal responsibility in his press conference. Now you think Johnny Manziel fell short on the same subject.
As dense as I probably am that's my guess as to the reason for your post.
(it does remind me of the history of the team at the point of the Vinnie V Bernie debate. For some reason if you liked one guy you are required by some ridiculous Browns rules to hate the other one.)
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
No one EVER thought Johnny could stand back there and read defenses.
Which is the reason so many didn't want to pick him in the first place
But yet that's what we did.
Because thats what NFL QB's need to do to succeed in this league
I saw 1 and I mean 1 REAL rollout play. Not that would have helped, but it hurt BIG TIME
Im confused. Your mad that he stayed in the pocket, but mad that he rolled out?
also the bungles were 27th against the run, we ran right up the middle ALL DAY
Confused again. So we were wrong to run at the 27th worst run defense?
Your killing me with this stuff. Next thing you know you'll be blaming this loss on the coin toss
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Oh we can certainly move on bud. I'm not angry, & I hope you're not. It seems to me the point you want to make is that someone here thought Brian Hoyer failed to take enough personal responsibility in his press conference. Now you think Johnny Manziel fell short on the same subject.
As dense as I probably am that's my guess as to the reason for your post.
(it does remind me of the history of the team at the point of the Vinnie V Bernie debate. For some reason if you liked one guy you are required by some ridiculous Browns rules to hate the other one.)
WSS
For some reason if you like one guy you are required by some ridiculous Browns rules to hate the other one.
WSS
This is my pain. The polarizing nature of these 2 QB's. And the inability of those that love them(or hate them) to accept objective analysis. So many are too fast to condemn. And on the other side, so many feel the need to defend, even in the face of horrible play.
And its so extreme(the love and hate for one) that now that we have lost 4 out of 5 games, we are debating how our QB's respond verbally to their terrible play at press conferences?? Which one grovels best?.
Im more worried how he'll respond next week on the field.
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No one EVER thought Johnny could stand back there and read defenses.
Which is the reason so many didn't want to pick him in the first place
But yet that's what we did.
Because thats what NFL QB's need to do to succeed in this league
I saw 1 and I mean 1 REAL rollout play. Not that would have helped, but it hurt BIG TIME
Im confused. Your mad that he stayed in the pocket, but mad that he rolled out?
also the bungles were 27th against the run, we ran right up the middle ALL DAY
Confused again. So we were wrong to run at the 27th worst run defense?
Your killing me with this stuff. Next thing you know you'll be blaming this loss on the coin toss
Your killing me with this stuff. Next thing you know you'll be blaming this loss on the coin toss
Nah... that's a different thread...
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Oh we can certainly move on bud. I'm not angry, & I hope you're not. It seems to me the point you want to make is that someone here thought Brian Hoyer failed to take enough personal responsibility in his press conference. Now you think Johnny Manziel fell short on the same subject.
As dense as I probably am that's my guess as to the reason for your post.
(it does remind me of the history of the team at the point of the Vinnie V Bernie debate. For some reason if you liked one guy you are required by some ridiculous Browns rules to hate the other one.)
WSS
Oh we can certainly move on bud. I'm not angry, & I hope you're not. It seems to me the point you want to make is that someone here thought Brian Hoyer failed to take enough personal responsibility in his press conference. Now you think Johnny Manziel fell short on the same subject.
As dense as I probably am that's my guess as to the reason for your post.
Not angry either, Steve, just incredulous... until your latest installment. Now I see the issue and that you batted .500 in what you said above about "my points".
You were right to take as my point that Manziel said many of the same things Hoyer said and was criticized by many Manziel backers for saying.
You wrong to take as a point that I was saying Manziel "fell short" for saying the same. Completely beside the point.
My intent was to point out to the JM backers that their boy was saying much of the same. Either both were in the wrong or both were in the right. I lean toward the latter. There have been a lot of "we" failures for weeks now.
Peace...
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Oh come on Z, a punt returner?? He's way too slow for that....... Holder maybe?
Punt holder?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Oh we can certainly move on bud. I'm not angry, & I hope you're not. It seems to me the point you want to make is that someone here thought Brian Hoyer failed to take enough personal responsibility in his press conference. Now you think Johnny Manziel fell short on the same subject.
As dense as I probably am that's my guess as to the reason for your post.
(it does remind me of the history of the team at the point of the Vinnie V Bernie debate. For some reason if you liked one guy you are required by some ridiculous Browns rules to hate the other one.)
WSS
Oh we can certainly move on bud. I'm not angry, & I hope you're not. It seems to me the point you want to make is that someone here thought Brian Hoyer failed to take enough personal responsibility in his press conference. Now you think Johnny Manziel fell short on the same subject.
As dense as I probably am that's my guess as to the reason for your post.
(it does remind me of the history of the team at the point of the Vinnie V Bernie debate. For some reason if you liked one guy you are required by some ridiculous Browns rules to hate the other one.)
WSS
Ginger on Mary Ann? One must have been a stinker, right?
:lol: 
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