Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I have no patience left for Johnny Manziel. I don't care how much he promises to work harder in the off season. I don't believe him. Why should I? He said all the right things about changing his off the field habits before the draft and did manage to at least keep his head down until he got drafted. Then he promptly went out and acted the fool all off season, showed up to camp unprepared and told everyone he was "gonna do" Johnny. He wasn't doing anything wrong and could do whatever he wanted in his own time. He has had 14 weeks this season to absorb everything Brian was doing to prepare every week. If he did any of that, then he just sucks and will never make it, or he wasn't paying nearly the attention he should have been. Why should we believe he will do anything different this off season? He's a circus clown, and an ass clown that has earned no trust from anyone in the organization, or any of us. I can't see what we could get out if him in trade, but I'd take whatever I could and cut ties. Allowing him another chance is what everyone has done for him all his life and he still don't get it and he won't until he suffers the consequences. If we can't trade him, I'd take the hit and release him. He's brought nothing positive to this team except ONE drive. Three or four minutes. All season. The rest has been drama and negative press. IMO, if this FO is going into next season HOPING he will do better, they're crazy.
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we will be lucky to get a 6th round pick for the midget.
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Manziel is 22 years old right. He's just a kid. Give him some time to develop. There is no rush on Manziel. Don't give in to the Manzielmaniacs of there. You bring Hoyer back for a Veteran Journeyman's salary, nothing more, if he wants to be here then good. We need a serviceable QB. If you can hit on Mariota or whoever he is then strike. Keep striking on QB's until we find the next big one. We missed on Carr, I believe. But, Manziel just has some developing to do. He started this season really late and under immense pressure, under playoff implications and being the second coming and all that. He will do fine in an offseason training program and come back stronger and faster, with an offense suited to his strengths, with players capable to capitalize on his abilities. Find a way to sign Mike Evans.
Really Evans made a ton of plays for Manziel, but it wasn't just Evans. Manziel must have cohesion within the offense. They have to sync and come back to the QB, make plays in a freestyle manner when he's scrambling. That is going to be the hardest part, finding the guys able to do that. High football IQs and big bodies, good hands; no, great hands. We also have been spoiled with Alex Mack. What a tank. Losing him was like losing half the country in a war. What an impact a player like that has. Even Joe Thomas struggled without Mack anchoring the line.
Gotta get some really good "big uglies" to finish that damn line, once and for all.
Manziel is 22 years old right. He's just a kid. Give him some time to develop. There is no rush on Manziel. Don't give in to the Manzielmaniacs of there. You bring Hoyer back for a Veteran Journeyman's salary, nothing more, if he wants to be here then good. We need a serviceable QB. If you can hit on Mariota or whoever he is then strike. Keep striking on QB's until we find the next big one. We missed on Carr, I believe. But, Manziel just has some developing to do. He started this season really late and under immense pressure, under playoff implications and being the second coming and all that. He will do fine in an offseason training program and come back stronger and faster, with an offense suited to his strengths, with players capable to capitalize on his abilities. Find a way to sign Mike Evans.
Really Evans made a ton of plays for Manziel, but it wasn't just Evans. Manziel must have cohesion within the offense. They have to sync and come back to the QB, make plays in a freestyle manner when he's scrambling. That is going to be the hardest part, finding the guys able to do that. High football IQs and big bodies, good hands; no, great hands. We also have been spoiled with Alex Mack. What a tank. Losing him was like losing half the country in a war. What an impact a player like that has. Even Joe Thomas struggled without Mack anchoring the line.
Gotta get some really good "big uglies" to finish that damn line, once and for all.
Agreed on pretty much everything. Getting rid of Manziel isn't worth what you'd get for him. Not to sure Hoyer would return next year, so there may have to be another veteran worth picking up to hold us over. I wouldn't mind giving Mallet a shot.
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I sure wish you had influence on Stephen then.@everlastingxxx said:
Id give up a second rounder. Claiborne sucks btw. He is a bust. You could probably get Bruce Carter too.
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And capable is a best case scenario. So again isn't very good at least what you want in a starter?
Here's any team's best chance to win with Brian Hoyer at the helm. Make sure your team is as good as Rex Grossman Chicago Bears or Trent Dilfer Baltimore Ravens. Frankly if the Cleveland Browns could be that good I'd be a happy guy.
But if any team is not that good why would they pay top dollar to a quarterback they can only hope will be adequate?
He may as well stay here and hope for the best. I guarantee he won't get the love and respect in a city he wasn't born in.
WSS
I just can't see us keeping Hoyer after benching him for JFF. Hoyer will be looking elsewhere. I think we should keep him, but doubt it will happen.
Hoyer seems pretty bright to me. I think he understands the business side of it. If there are no rifts with the staff I could see him here next year.I just can't see us keeping Hoyer after benching him for JFF. Hoyer will be looking elsewhere. I think we should keep him, but doubt it will happen.
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there are salary issues with half our DL who are/were hurt and have been hurt for multiple years now. sure i love phil and rubin but if you can only last 2 games a season.......
our OL has sucked on the right side now for going on 5 years but no one will accept it thinking that schwartz is fine. the stats and the OL grades might be there for him but he sure doesn't pass the eye test. and who's to say these guys come back 100%. browns came into the season with the deepest defensive back roster and they are now down to their last 2 guys. so imagine what happens when your center of your OL and DL go out for the season 3 games in?
you're pretty much fucked unless you have a great plan B which we did except for the center and DL (DT run stoppers).
plan B is now plan C with no QBs, no center, no run stoppers, no blah blahblahblah blah.
there are salary issues with half our DL who are/were hurt and have been hurt for multiple years now. sure i love phil and rubin but if you can only last 2 games a season.......
our OL has sucked on the right side now for going on 5 years but no one will accept it thinking that schwartz is fine. the stats and the OL grades might be there for him but he sure doesn't pass the eye test. and who's to say these guys come back 100%. browns came into the season with the deepest defensive back roster and they are now down to their last 2 guys. so imagine what happens when your center of your OL and DL go out for the season 3 games in?
you're pretty much fucked unless you have a great plan B which we did except for the center and DL (DT run stoppers).
plan B is now plan C with no QBs, no center, no run stoppers, no blah blahblahblah blah.
Yeah, our run defense wasn't exactly great even when everyone was healthy. Rubin is either going to have to take a massive pay cut, or he's gone.
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Drew Brees and Russell Wilson have rings. Midget QB's can thrive in the right setting. Manziel might suck, but if career backup Hoyer gets to prove he blows, at least give Johnny his chance to fail. Meaning more than a couple starts.
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If Hoyer had gone out and failed as miserably in his first two starts last year as Manziel did in his first two starts, he wouldn't be on the team this year. The reason he got more time is because we were winning games and he works his ass off.
Does anyone really have the faith that Johnny will be different this off season? I just don't. No way would I trust in that as our future franchise QB. He hasn't proven any of my doubts wrong yet. I have no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. I could care less where he was drafted. If they made a mistake like that they should own it, remove it, and cut the losses now before he sets us back further. His distraction isn't worth the risk with his skill set where it is, and his clear lack of work habits.
There was a great example of the right way to do things playing in Charlotte Sunday. Pierre Desir. He clearly has taken the job seriously, done his preparation, studied, and took the coaching given him and we now see some results. This is what Johnny should have been doing all along as well. It wouldn't shock me at all to see Shaw has done the same.
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Unfortunately, no I don't. It's a shame, though, because his ego shouldn't get in the way of the right thing to do. You don't produce, and even worse, don't properly prepare, your ass should be gone or severely demoted. Sends the wrong message to the guys who are doing things the right way.
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I guess I just don't have the patience that you display. Maybe because I'm getting older. I had more patience with Weeden and McCoy. I hope I'm wrong, but in my mind Manziel has already proven that he has no NFL potential. I don't hate him for it....I hate Farmer for drafting him.
And unfortunately it's that very kind of impatience that has kept the Browns in the toilet for over a decade.
WSS
And unfortunately it's that very kind of impatience that has kept the Browns in the toilet for over a decade.
WSS
Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.
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What can we get for him? Are you out of your fucking minds? The real question should be "WHAT DID WE GET FROM HIM"? A lot of hype, turmoil, bad press, worse play and a broken "Johnny Sideshow" and a lot of broken Aggie fanboy hearts. And you dumbasses that want to keep him want MORE of this shit? Ray Charles can see this clown's not worth the trouble. Cut ties buy him some luggage and send him packing !
GO BROWNS.
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And unfortunately it's that very kind of impatience that has kept the Browns in the toilet for over a decade.
WSS
Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.
Apologies accepted.Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.
But kidding aside I'm sure you understand my point. If you think changing everything every 15 minutes has been a great idea tell me why.
And Tour2ma yes of course even Johnny. And even though you seemed to be skeptical when I said I would have let Hoyer play out the season that's what I said a few times and still think it would have been the right move. The reason is just what we saw. Johnny is a rookie and whether he goes to the Hall of Fame or the Burger King he's going to have some rough outings among his first experiences in the NFL. That's compounded by the fact that they put him in near the end of the season when so many key players or out making it a challenge for the team to win no matter who is under center. Not to mention you are changing up the office since for the rest of the guys who are having trouble with the one they are used to!
We I would have been better served by continuity at that point in the season. If it's the decision of the coaches front office and ownership to let hoyle walk after the season c'est la vie. But that's when they should have made the decision to commit to Johnny. Or not.
We saw what happened even though Johnny did not lose the Cincinnati game.
(and before you attack he didn't do anything to win it either.)
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Actually we should announce Brian Hoyer is healthy and will start this weekend and then trade him to Denver. He can replace Peyton Manning there and they will surely go to the Superbowl. They would probably at least give us a first for the advantage it will surely give them for their last game.
Jimmy would certainly have to sell his chain of truck stops to get enough money to pay Brian Hoyer what he deserves. So the trade would solve that problem.
WSS
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Apologies accepted.Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.
But kidding aside I'm sure you understand my point. If you think changing everything every 15 minutes has been a great idea tell me why.
And Tour2ma yes of course even Johnny. And even though you seemed to be skeptical when I said I would have let Hoyer play out the season that's what I said a few times and still think it would have been the right move. The reason is just what we saw. Johnny is a rookie and whether he goes to the Hall of Fame or the Burger King he's going to have some rough outings among his first experiences in the NFL. That's compounded by the fact that they put him in near the end of the season when so many key players or out making it a challenge for the team to win no matter who is under center. Not to mention you are changing up the office since for the rest of the guys who are having trouble with the one they are used to!
We I would have been better served by continuity at that point in the season. If it's the decision of the coaches front office and ownership to let hoyle walk after the season c'est la vie. But that's when they should have made the decision to commit to Johnny. Or not.
We saw what happened even though Johnny did not lose the Cincinnati game.
(and before you attack he didn't do anything to win it either.)
WSS
Apologies accepted.
But kidding aside I'm sure you understand my point. If you think changing everything every 15 minutes has been a great idea tell me why.
And Tour2ma yes of course even Johnny. And even though you seemed to be skeptical when I said I would have let Hoyer play out the season that's what I said a few times and still think it would have been the right move. The reason is just what we saw. Johnny is a rookie and whether he goes to the Hall of Fame or the Burger King he's going to have some rough outings among his first experiences in the NFL. That's compounded by the fact that they put him in near the end of the season when so many key players or out making it a challenge for the team to win no matter who is under center. Not to mention you are changing up the office since for the rest of the guys who are having trouble with the one they are used to!
We I would have been better served by continuity at that point in the season. If it's the decision of the coaches front office and ownership to let hoyle walk after the season c'est la vie. But that's when they should have made the decision to commit to Johnny. Or not.
We saw what happened even though Johnny did not lose the Cincinnati game.
(and before you attack he didn't do anything to win it either.)
WSS
Stability is the key to being a consistent winner. However, I still think it's important to recognize your errors and correct them as soon as possible....especially with players at key positions. I would tend to give a coaching staff or individual coaches a lot more time and margin of error than has been the case here. With JM, if I could see something....anything.... that would indicate he could play effectively in the NFL, I would be a little more open minded. Our O line has sucked forever, and that doesn't help, so he looks terrible out there. Weeden, at least, showed flashes of NFL caliber play, with his big arm, but fragile mental state. I guess you could call it the Vinnie Testeverde syndrome. Hoyer has the ability to make big plays, and plays smart most of the time...just very inconsistent. Not to mention he's tough, and can take a hit. Don't forget....Hoyer was playing very well...fewest interceptions of all qb's until Mack went down. Obviously, he doesn't respond well to pressure situations, though. As long as were talking stability.....just wait until the Baltimore game. What if Conner Shaw plays really well, and maybe even wins that game? Then what?
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Are we talking about pulling the trigger? Cutting somebody after six quarters? Seems like there is an agenda underway. On the other hand in the same argument you tell me you have seen some greatness, or at least goodness, in brian.
I haven't seen what I would call flashes of greatness I've seen flashes of good enough to play in the NFL. I've also seen games we've won playing around his limitations. But regardless of the flashes he's been in the league for what 5 or 6 years already?
Look I understand the attitude, we all just want to shit can people if we don't like them personally and that's the feeling I get around here.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Speaking of Vinny Testaverde, Lobo, remember that the Bernie Kosar fans despised him.
WSS
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Stability is key, but you have to recognize the clear misses in the change ups too. Shurmur was a bad decision and had to leave asap. Same with Banner and Lombardo. Mangini should've stayed and had more time, but Lerner screwed that up with Holmgren, who is another that you can't say should've stayed for the sake of stability. With Pettine and Farmer, now is the time to keep stability. Even if they struggle to win games for the next two+ years, as long as you see progress being made and improvement, no matter how small, stick wtih it. Might be five years yet until they make the playoffs (especially if the entire AFCN keeps up like this year). That sucks when fans are at wits end, but it's the only thing that hasn't been tried yet.
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Hey it's a little harder to argue that it was a good idea to shit can everybody you've mentioned unless things took a turn for the better afterwards. They didn't. Every rebuilding process sucked. Every new regime booted out the players that weren't their guys.
So far there's no reason to think any change has been for the better. Three more years and we might have a better understanding of the personnel at the top we have today.
WSS
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What about Crennel? Should he have been given more time than the four years he had? With that 2007 season, the stability arguement would say yes.
I might have short term memory loss here when comparing, but I feel better about this staff more than any before since the '99 return. (For me, my opinion of Mangini's time here is hindsight.)
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