Jonathan Paul Manziel
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And capable is a best case scenario. So again isn't very good at least what you want in a starter?
Here's any team's best chance to win with Brian Hoyer at the helm. Make sure your team is as good as Rex Grossman Chicago Bears or Trent Dilfer Baltimore Ravens. Frankly if the Cleveland Browns could be that good I'd be a happy guy.
But if any team is not that good why would they pay top dollar to a quarterback they can only hope will be adequate?
He may as well stay here and hope for the best. I guarantee he won't get the love and respect in a city he wasn't born in.
WSS
I just can't see us keeping Hoyer after benching him for JFF. Hoyer will be looking elsewhere. I think we should keep him, but doubt it will happen.
Hoyer seems pretty bright to me. I think he understands the business side of it. If there are no rifts with the staff I could see him here next year.I just can't see us keeping Hoyer after benching him for JFF. Hoyer will be looking elsewhere. I think we should keep him, but doubt it will happen.
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there are salary issues with half our DL who are/were hurt and have been hurt for multiple years now. sure i love phil and rubin but if you can only last 2 games a season.......
our OL has sucked on the right side now for going on 5 years but no one will accept it thinking that schwartz is fine. the stats and the OL grades might be there for him but he sure doesn't pass the eye test. and who's to say these guys come back 100%. browns came into the season with the deepest defensive back roster and they are now down to their last 2 guys. so imagine what happens when your center of your OL and DL go out for the season 3 games in?
you're pretty much fucked unless you have a great plan B which we did except for the center and DL (DT run stoppers).
plan B is now plan C with no QBs, no center, no run stoppers, no blah blahblahblah blah.
there are salary issues with half our DL who are/were hurt and have been hurt for multiple years now. sure i love phil and rubin but if you can only last 2 games a season.......
our OL has sucked on the right side now for going on 5 years but no one will accept it thinking that schwartz is fine. the stats and the OL grades might be there for him but he sure doesn't pass the eye test. and who's to say these guys come back 100%. browns came into the season with the deepest defensive back roster and they are now down to their last 2 guys. so imagine what happens when your center of your OL and DL go out for the season 3 games in?
you're pretty much fucked unless you have a great plan B which we did except for the center and DL (DT run stoppers).
plan B is now plan C with no QBs, no center, no run stoppers, no blah blahblahblah blah.
Yeah, our run defense wasn't exactly great even when everyone was healthy. Rubin is either going to have to take a massive pay cut, or he's gone.
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Drew Brees and Russell Wilson have rings. Midget QB's can thrive in the right setting. Manziel might suck, but if career backup Hoyer gets to prove he blows, at least give Johnny his chance to fail. Meaning more than a couple starts.
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If Hoyer had gone out and failed as miserably in his first two starts last year as Manziel did in his first two starts, he wouldn't be on the team this year. The reason he got more time is because we were winning games and he works his ass off.
Does anyone really have the faith that Johnny will be different this off season? I just don't. No way would I trust in that as our future franchise QB. He hasn't proven any of my doubts wrong yet. I have no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. I could care less where he was drafted. If they made a mistake like that they should own it, remove it, and cut the losses now before he sets us back further. His distraction isn't worth the risk with his skill set where it is, and his clear lack of work habits.
There was a great example of the right way to do things playing in Charlotte Sunday. Pierre Desir. He clearly has taken the job seriously, done his preparation, studied, and took the coaching given him and we now see some results. This is what Johnny should have been doing all along as well. It wouldn't shock me at all to see Shaw has done the same.
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Unfortunately, no I don't. It's a shame, though, because his ego shouldn't get in the way of the right thing to do. You don't produce, and even worse, don't properly prepare, your ass should be gone or severely demoted. Sends the wrong message to the guys who are doing things the right way.
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I guess I just don't have the patience that you display. Maybe because I'm getting older. I had more patience with Weeden and McCoy. I hope I'm wrong, but in my mind Manziel has already proven that he has no NFL potential. I don't hate him for it....I hate Farmer for drafting him.
And unfortunately it's that very kind of impatience that has kept the Browns in the toilet for over a decade.
WSS
And unfortunately it's that very kind of impatience that has kept the Browns in the toilet for over a decade.
WSS
Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.
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What can we get for him? Are you out of your fucking minds? The real question should be "WHAT DID WE GET FROM HIM"? A lot of hype, turmoil, bad press, worse play and a broken "Johnny Sideshow" and a lot of broken Aggie fanboy hearts. And you dumbasses that want to keep him want MORE of this shit? Ray Charles can see this clown's not worth the trouble. Cut ties buy him some luggage and send him packing !
GO BROWNS.
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And unfortunately it's that very kind of impatience that has kept the Browns in the toilet for over a decade.
WSS
Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.
Apologies accepted.Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.
But kidding aside I'm sure you understand my point. If you think changing everything every 15 minutes has been a great idea tell me why.
And Tour2ma yes of course even Johnny. And even though you seemed to be skeptical when I said I would have let Hoyer play out the season that's what I said a few times and still think it would have been the right move. The reason is just what we saw. Johnny is a rookie and whether he goes to the Hall of Fame or the Burger King he's going to have some rough outings among his first experiences in the NFL. That's compounded by the fact that they put him in near the end of the season when so many key players or out making it a challenge for the team to win no matter who is under center. Not to mention you are changing up the office since for the rest of the guys who are having trouble with the one they are used to!
We I would have been better served by continuity at that point in the season. If it's the decision of the coaches front office and ownership to let hoyle walk after the season c'est la vie. But that's when they should have made the decision to commit to Johnny. Or not.
We saw what happened even though Johnny did not lose the Cincinnati game.
(and before you attack he didn't do anything to win it either.)
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Actually we should announce Brian Hoyer is healthy and will start this weekend and then trade him to Denver. He can replace Peyton Manning there and they will surely go to the Superbowl. They would probably at least give us a first for the advantage it will surely give them for their last game.
Jimmy would certainly have to sell his chain of truck stops to get enough money to pay Brian Hoyer what he deserves. So the trade would solve that problem.
WSS
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Apologies accepted.Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.
But kidding aside I'm sure you understand my point. If you think changing everything every 15 minutes has been a great idea tell me why.
And Tour2ma yes of course even Johnny. And even though you seemed to be skeptical when I said I would have let Hoyer play out the season that's what I said a few times and still think it would have been the right move. The reason is just what we saw. Johnny is a rookie and whether he goes to the Hall of Fame or the Burger King he's going to have some rough outings among his first experiences in the NFL. That's compounded by the fact that they put him in near the end of the season when so many key players or out making it a challenge for the team to win no matter who is under center. Not to mention you are changing up the office since for the rest of the guys who are having trouble with the one they are used to!
We I would have been better served by continuity at that point in the season. If it's the decision of the coaches front office and ownership to let hoyle walk after the season c'est la vie. But that's when they should have made the decision to commit to Johnny. Or not.
We saw what happened even though Johnny did not lose the Cincinnati game.
(and before you attack he didn't do anything to win it either.)
WSS
Apologies accepted.
But kidding aside I'm sure you understand my point. If you think changing everything every 15 minutes has been a great idea tell me why.
And Tour2ma yes of course even Johnny. And even though you seemed to be skeptical when I said I would have let Hoyer play out the season that's what I said a few times and still think it would have been the right move. The reason is just what we saw. Johnny is a rookie and whether he goes to the Hall of Fame or the Burger King he's going to have some rough outings among his first experiences in the NFL. That's compounded by the fact that they put him in near the end of the season when so many key players or out making it a challenge for the team to win no matter who is under center. Not to mention you are changing up the office since for the rest of the guys who are having trouble with the one they are used to!
We I would have been better served by continuity at that point in the season. If it's the decision of the coaches front office and ownership to let hoyle walk after the season c'est la vie. But that's when they should have made the decision to commit to Johnny. Or not.
We saw what happened even though Johnny did not lose the Cincinnati game.
(and before you attack he didn't do anything to win it either.)
WSS
Stability is the key to being a consistent winner. However, I still think it's important to recognize your errors and correct them as soon as possible....especially with players at key positions. I would tend to give a coaching staff or individual coaches a lot more time and margin of error than has been the case here. With JM, if I could see something....anything.... that would indicate he could play effectively in the NFL, I would be a little more open minded. Our O line has sucked forever, and that doesn't help, so he looks terrible out there. Weeden, at least, showed flashes of NFL caliber play, with his big arm, but fragile mental state. I guess you could call it the Vinnie Testeverde syndrome. Hoyer has the ability to make big plays, and plays smart most of the time...just very inconsistent. Not to mention he's tough, and can take a hit. Don't forget....Hoyer was playing very well...fewest interceptions of all qb's until Mack went down. Obviously, he doesn't respond well to pressure situations, though. As long as were talking stability.....just wait until the Baltimore game. What if Conner Shaw plays really well, and maybe even wins that game? Then what?
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Are we talking about pulling the trigger? Cutting somebody after six quarters? Seems like there is an agenda underway. On the other hand in the same argument you tell me you have seen some greatness, or at least goodness, in brian.
I haven't seen what I would call flashes of greatness I've seen flashes of good enough to play in the NFL. I've also seen games we've won playing around his limitations. But regardless of the flashes he's been in the league for what 5 or 6 years already?
Look I understand the attitude, we all just want to shit can people if we don't like them personally and that's the feeling I get around here.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Speaking of Vinny Testaverde, Lobo, remember that the Bernie Kosar fans despised him.
WSS
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Stability is key, but you have to recognize the clear misses in the change ups too. Shurmur was a bad decision and had to leave asap. Same with Banner and Lombardo. Mangini should've stayed and had more time, but Lerner screwed that up with Holmgren, who is another that you can't say should've stayed for the sake of stability. With Pettine and Farmer, now is the time to keep stability. Even if they struggle to win games for the next two+ years, as long as you see progress being made and improvement, no matter how small, stick wtih it. Might be five years yet until they make the playoffs (especially if the entire AFCN keeps up like this year). That sucks when fans are at wits end, but it's the only thing that hasn't been tried yet.
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Hey it's a little harder to argue that it was a good idea to shit can everybody you've mentioned unless things took a turn for the better afterwards. They didn't. Every rebuilding process sucked. Every new regime booted out the players that weren't their guys.
So far there's no reason to think any change has been for the better. Three more years and we might have a better understanding of the personnel at the top we have today.
WSS
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What about Crennel? Should he have been given more time than the four years he had? With that 2007 season, the stability arguement would say yes.
I might have short term memory loss here when comparing, but I feel better about this staff more than any before since the '99 return. (For me, my opinion of Mangini's time here is hindsight.)
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My point is the time is now to keep things as intact as possible on key staff and FO. I hope they can keep away from the dreaded 4-12 / 5-11 seasons so judgement is easy. Biggest monkey on their back right now is, of course, the QB situation. Everything else I feel confident they will have a handle on, or will address the needs accordingly.
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What about Crennel? Should he have been given more time than the four years he had? With that 2007 season, the stability arguement would say yes.
I might have short term memory loss here when comparing, but I feel better about this staff more than any before since the '99 return. (For me, my opinion of Mangini's time here is hindsight.)
What about Crennel? Should he have been given more time than the four years he had? With that 2007 season, the stability arguement would say yes.
I might have short term memory loss here when comparing, but I feel better about this staff more than any before since the '99 return. (For me, my opinion of Mangini's time here is hindsight.)[/quote
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4 years is okay. Then what happened? Superbowl? AFC championship?
WSS
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Other teams have taken longer than 4 years to do that. So you're saying Crennel was the one exception to the stability problems? His four years was long enough? That might be true. Then a comedy of errors in hiring happened...until now. IMO.
I don't know. Quite honestly I don't know much about how he hurt or didn't hurt the team. I'm just saying it seems to me that the Browns organization is more fickle then most successful organizations. And the quick trigger hasn't seemed to produce results. We tend to focus on a personality and it just hasn't worked out yet.Other teams have taken longer than 4 years to do that. So you're saying Crennel was the one exception to the stability problems? His four years was long enough? That might be true. Then a comedy of errors in hiring happened...until now. IMO.
All I can say is look at the results. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we should replace the coaching staff every six quarters.
WSS
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