The Browns Strategy Meeting
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I can't think of anything better for an owner, GM and HC to do than getting together to work on bettering a team.
I can't think of anything better for an owner, GM and HC to do than getting together to work on bettering a team.
cut out the locker room cancer should be the first move, admit the mistake cut Gordon and Johnny Fuckstain.
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The results of the retreat will be interesting, but doubt we'll get much of an insight into their thinking for a while.
On the QB set up for 2015...
I'm not seeing a great deal of downside to the same trio as we sported in 2014. Compete again in TC and move on with the winner as our 2015 starter. Maybe Manziel "gets it" and emerges, but I doubt it and if he does not, then Hoyer would have no reason to look over his shoulder.
If we do enough to shore up the O-line so it can withstand an injury (or two), then the run game/ play action theme is viable for 16 weeks. Hoyer in that system is a better option than forcing a QB move that is really not there.
That said, I do have a feeling that something is going to emerge on the QB horizon that is a viable improvement.
As for Gordon... not sweating him one way or the other. He did not show enough in his limited 2014 to warrant any sweat.
The results of the retreat will be interesting, but doubt we'll get much of an insight into their thinking for a while.
On the QB set up for 2015...
I'm not seeing a great deal of downside to the same trio as we sported in 2014. Compete again in TC and move on with the winner as our 2015 starter. Maybe Manziel "gets it" and emerges, but I doubt it and if he does not, then Hoyer would have no reason to look over his shoulder.
If we do enough to shore up the O-line so it can withstand an injury (or two), then the run game/ play action theme is viable for 16 weeks. Hoyer in that system is a better option than forcing a QB move that is really not there.
That said, I do have a feeling that something is going to emerge on the QB horizon that is a viable improvement.
As for Gordon... not sweating him one way or the other. He did not show enough in his limited 2014 to warrant any sweat.
^ This 100%
Plus as much as I don't sweat Gordon, it's just so sad to see him waste his God-given talents..
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So Gordon and Cameron will be gone... What next?
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If we do have Hoyer, Manziel and Shaw as quarterbacks in 2015 and Hoyer beats out Manziel to start there will be one huge difference. If Hoyer struggles during the season I doubt there will be a huge outpouring of pressure to put Manziel in and replace him if Pettine says the Browns have a better chance to win with Hoyer. I for one will believe him this time. I had to see it for myself in the Bengals game. I had it in my mind Manziel would be a spark for the anemic offense. We saw what happened.
So if I had to guess one deciding factor between Brian Hoyer and Johnny Manziel would be BHs actual NFL experience.If we do have Hoyer, Manziel and Shaw as quarterbacks in 2015 and Hoyer beats out Manziel to start there will be one huge difference. If Hoyer struggles during the season I doubt there will be a huge outpouring of pressure to put Manziel in and replace him if Pettine says the Browns have a better chance to win with Hoyer. I for one will believe him this time. I had to see it for myself in the Bengals game. I had it in my mind Manziel would be a spark for the anemic offense. We saw what happened.
Unfortunately I don't think it helps him to make excuses like having to look over his shoulder. Everybody in the NFL looks over their shoulder.
And whether or not coach Mike decides to stay with him after a few disappointing games the fans will be screaming for his head after a couple.
I have a hard time believing that a professional coaching staff makes his decisions based upon the squealing of the fans. At least I would hope they don't.
WSS
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There was pressure from the fans and also looks like the front office to put Manziel in. I like Pettine but why else would he have put JM in? It certainly wasn't anything he saw from JM in practice.
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There was pressure from the fans and also looks like the front office to put Manziel in. I like Pettine but why else would he have put JM in? It certainly wasn't anything he saw from JM in practice.
Fair enough. Coach Mike is an idiot and/or a pussy if the fans pushed him into this. And Ray farmer is a liar. Neither option really cheers me up. And you have no idea what he saw from JM in practice. None of the pundits, not Tony Grossi nor Mary Kay Cabot nor Patrick McManamon nor Fowler attend practices and all get their information from the same place. Unidentified sources. It seems if you believe Mike Pettine is that stupid then how could you not have the shitty attitude of I told you or junk yard dog?There was pressure from the fans and also looks like the front office to put Manziel in. I like Pettine but why else would he have put JM in? It certainly wasn't anything he saw from JM in practice.
Because you can't have it both ways. Either he had no clue or he knew and allowed the fans to push him to throw away a game.
Or maybe the coaching staff had less love for Brian Hoyer than the Cleveland fans and wondered how much worse could it get with Johnny?
WSS
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I think Pettine made a mistake. I still think he is a great coach. He is a first year head coach. He will only get better. He made some mistakes as well with clock management this year. I am not expecting perfection. The only thing i don't want to see are the same mistakes being made again. You learn from them.
I am not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There are lot's of good things I see right now with the Browns and it is not fair to blame all the failures of the last 15 years on the new HC, GM, and Owner who have only been here a short time.
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Haslam, Farmer and Pettine off on a 3 day retreat to discuss strategy. It will be interesting to see what their strategy going forward will be? I keep seeing hints about going after the franchise qb. I don't know. We have had big problems in this area. I thought Mariota might be worth going after but I agree with some who have posted here about him playing in a gimmicky offense at Oregon. Winston has the personal issues but looks like he would be a good qb. The other option I see is trying to improve the team with our draft, signing Hoyer as a FA, Shaw as back up. That is the one I like.
Haslam, Farmer and Pettine off on a 3 day retreat to discuss strategy. It will be interesting to see what their strategy going forward will be? I keep seeing hints about going after the franchise qb. I don't know. We have had big problems in this area. I thought Mariota might be worth going after but I agree with some who have posted here about him playing in a gimmicky offense at Oregon. Winston has the personal issues but looks like he would be a good qb. The other option I see is trying to improve the team with our draft, signing Hoyer as a FA, Shaw as back up. That is the one I like.
I'd bet they are going to try and swing a trade for an existing franchise QB, possibly giving up multiple first-round picks to get one.
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I think too many of you just throw around the term "franchise" QB. There aren't that many of them in the league, and they sure as hell don' t get traded.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I think too many of you just throw around the term "franchise" QB. There aren't that many of them in the league, and they sure as hell don' t get traded.
I think too many of you just throw around the term "franchise" QB. There aren't that many of them in the league, and they sure as hell don' t get traded.
If you assume a franchise QB would be drafted at number 1, you basically would need to trade this year's firsts, as well as next, plus maybe a 2. I don't see that happening.
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I think too many of you just throw around the term "franchise" QB. There aren't that many of them in the league, and they sure as hell don' t get traded.
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I think too many of you just throw around the term "franchise" QB. There aren't that many of them in the league, and they sure as hell don' t get traded.
I think too many of you just throw around the term "franchise" QB. There aren't that many of them in the league, and they sure as hell don' t get traded.
I didn't say they'd succeed.
I said they'd try. Ok, maybe not a franchise QB, but trade for some QB. Adam Caplan thinks it is going to happen this year because the FA market for QBs is so bad this year.I wouldn't mind if they brought Locker in, though.
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If we do have Hoyer, Manziel and Shaw as quarterbacks in 2015 and Hoyer beats out Manziel to start there will be one huge difference. If Hoyer struggles during the season I doubt there will be a huge outpouring of pressure to put Manziel in and replace him if Pettine says the Browns have a better chance to win with Hoyer. I for one will believe him this time. I had to see it for myself in the Bengals game. I had it in my mind Manziel would be a spark for the anemic offense. We saw what happened.
There will, it'll just be Shaw not Manziel.
There will, it'll just be Shaw not Manziel.
Shaw will never generate the kind of public outcry pressure that JM did.
Unfortunately I don't think it helps him to make excuses like having to look over his shoulder. Everybody in the NFL looks over their shoulder.
I never saw Hoyer use that excuse, Steve. I saw him deny it was a factor many times. I just never bought that the JM pressure was never a factor in his deteriorating performance.
... why else would he have put JM in?
Because Hoyer's play deteriorated so badly that he was left with no other choice. It's really that simple.
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Haslam, Farmer and Pettine off on a 3 day retreat to discuss strategy. It will be interesting to see what their strategy going forward will be? I keep seeing hints about going after the franchise qb. I don't know. We have had big problems in this area. I thought Mariota might be worth going after but I agree with some who have posted here about him playing in a gimmicky offense at Oregon. Winston has the personal issues but looks like he would be a good qb. The other option I see is trying to improve the team with our draft, signing Hoyer as a FA, Shaw as back up. That is the one I like.
I'd bet they are going to try and swing a trade for an existing franchise QB, possibly giving up multiple first-round picks to get one.
I'd bet they are going to try and swing a trade for an existing franchise QB, possibly giving up multiple first-round picks to get one.
Name a few.
Top teams all seem to have so-called 'Franchise QBs'. Crappy teams do not.
If somebody has a 'Franchise QB' why would they trade him?
Makes not sense, IMHO
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I'd bet they are going to try and swing a trade for an existing franchise QB, possibly giving up multiple first-round picks to get one.
Name a few.
Top teams all seem to have so-called 'Franchise QBs'. Crappy teams do not.
If somebody has a 'Franchise QB' why would they trade him?
Makes not sense, IMHO
Name a few.
Top teams all seem to have so-called 'Franchise QBs'. Crappy teams do not.
If somebody has a 'Franchise QB' why would they trade him?
Makes not sense, IMHO
Name a few?
Kelly Holcomb, Mike Pagel, Trent Dilfer, Matt Schaub, Matt Flynn, Kirk Cousins now Nick Foles.
WSS
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if anything a team might trade their backup not knowing if he'll turn into a 'franchise' qb or not.
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3-Day meeting to discuss strategy and direction with an Owner that has little knowledge of football can only mean one thing.
"Fail"
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The other option I see is trying to improve the team with our draft, signing Hoyer as a FA, Shaw as back up. That is the one I like.
Thats my pick. You cant pick or sign a franchise QB that doesn't even exist
Build a bullet proof core with 2 solid lines added to that bad ass defensive backfield, and we should be fine.....
A great team will make an average QB much better......(rarely works the other way though)
Thats my pick. You cant pick or sign a franchise QB that doesn't even exist
Build a bullet proof core with 2 solid lines added to that bad ass defensive backfield, and we should be fine.....
A great team will make an average QB much better......(rarely works the other way though)
Hm.
I don't think that's the case at all.
How many average QB's have made it to the Super Bowl in the past 10 years?
Brady, Wilson, Manning, Flacco, Kaepernick, Roethlisberger, Manning, Rodgers, Warner, Brees, Grossman, Hasselbeck, McNabb
Outside of Kaepernick, Grossman and maybe Hasselbeck, seems like the common denominator has been a consistently productive to elite quarterback. There aren't many one-and-done teams in that list, but it's no coincidence that the ones that are are the ones that have the "average" quarterbacks.
While building two badass lines and a solid running game sounds great on paper, it's a lot harder in implementation. That's anywhere from 8-10 contracts that you have to both align and pay. If you want 8-10 badass players, that's 8-10 badass contracts. Say you finally get those 8-10 players all signed for varying contracts. It's highly unlikely that they'll all be rookies. It's more likely you'll have to supplement with experienced, and overpaid, veterans. Now your window is even smaller to win a championship.
You sign a guy who's 28, you have 2-3 years on him at best. You sign 2 guys that are 28, one guy that's 27, a few that are 25, and then you have 3 or 4 rookies that take time to develop? By the time the rookies develop and, the two 28 year olds and the 27 year old are done, and the 25 year olds are now 27-28. Now you've got to replace those guys that are gone with new rookies, which means they're going to take a few years to develop.
While that above system is great, it's nothing to rely on. That's what you do when you have an established, solid franchise quarterback. Not when you're trying to mask an average QB.
It's actually much easier to find a franchise quarterback.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
3-Day meeting to discuss strategy and direction with an Owner that has little knowledge of football can only mean one thing.
"Fail"
3-Day meeting to discuss strategy and direction with an Owner that has little knowledge of football can only mean one thing.
"Fail"
It's just like trying to talk football with you.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Thats my pick. You cant pick or sign a franchise QB that doesn't even exist
Build a bullet proof core with 2 solid lines added to that bad ass defensive backfield, and we should be fine.....
A great team will make an average QB much better......(rarely works the other way though)
Hm.
I don't think that's the case at all.
How many average QB's have made it to the Super Bowl in the past 10 years?
Brady, Wilson, Manning, Flacco, Kaepernick, Roethlisberger, Manning, Rodgers, Warner, Brees, Grossman, Hasselbeck, McNabb
Outside of Kaepernick, Grossman and maybe Hasselbeck, seems like the common denominator has been a consistently productive to elite quarterback. There aren't many one-and-done teams in that list, but it's no coincidence that the ones that are are the ones that have the "average" quarterbacks.
While building two badass lines and a solid running game sounds great on paper, it's a lot harder in implementation. That's anywhere from 8-10 contracts that you have to both align and pay. If you want 8-10 badass players, that's 8-10 badass contracts. Say you finally get those 8-10 players all signed for varying contracts. It's highly unlikely that they'll all be rookies. It's more likely you'll have to supplement with experienced, and overpaid, veterans. Now your window is even smaller to win a championship.
You sign a guy who's 28, you have 2-3 years on him at best. You sign 2 guys that are 28, one guy that's 27, a few that are 25, and then you have 3 or 4 rookies that take time to develop? By the time the rookies develop and, the two 28 year olds and the 27 year old are done, and the 25 year olds are now 27-28. Now you've got to replace those guys that are gone with new rookies, which means they're going to take a few years to develop.
While that above system is great, it's nothing to rely on. That's what you do when you have an established, solid franchise quarterback. Not when you're trying to mask an average QB.
It's actually much easier to find a franchise quarterback.
It's actually much easier to find a franchise quarterback.
Yeah they just fall off trees.
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