The Browns Strategy Meeting
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Haslam, Farmer and Pettine off on a 3 day retreat to discuss strategy. It will be interesting to see what their strategy going forward will be? I keep seeing hints about going after the franchise qb. I don't know. We have had big problems in this area. I thought Mariota might be worth going after but I agree with some who have posted here about him playing in a gimmicky offense at Oregon. Winston has the personal issues but looks like he would be a good qb. The other option I see is trying to improve the team with our draft, signing Hoyer as a FA, Shaw as back up. That is the one I like.
Haslam, Farmer and Pettine off on a 3 day retreat to discuss strategy. It will be interesting to see what their strategy going forward will be? I keep seeing hints about going after the franchise qb. I don't know. We have had big problems in this area. I thought Mariota might be worth going after but I agree with some who have posted here about him playing in a gimmicky offense at Oregon. Winston has the personal issues but looks like he would be a good qb. The other option I see is trying to improve the team with our draft, signing Hoyer as a FA, Shaw as back up. That is the one I like.
I'd bet they are going to try and swing a trade for an existing franchise QB, possibly giving up multiple first-round picks to get one.
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I think too many of you just throw around the term "franchise" QB. There aren't that many of them in the league, and they sure as hell don' t get traded.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I think too many of you just throw around the term "franchise" QB. There aren't that many of them in the league, and they sure as hell don' t get traded.
I think too many of you just throw around the term "franchise" QB. There aren't that many of them in the league, and they sure as hell don' t get traded.
If you assume a franchise QB would be drafted at number 1, you basically would need to trade this year's firsts, as well as next, plus maybe a 2. I don't see that happening.
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I think too many of you just throw around the term "franchise" QB. There aren't that many of them in the league, and they sure as hell don' t get traded.
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I think too many of you just throw around the term "franchise" QB. There aren't that many of them in the league, and they sure as hell don' t get traded.
I think too many of you just throw around the term "franchise" QB. There aren't that many of them in the league, and they sure as hell don' t get traded.
I didn't say they'd succeed.
I said they'd try. Ok, maybe not a franchise QB, but trade for some QB. Adam Caplan thinks it is going to happen this year because the FA market for QBs is so bad this year.I wouldn't mind if they brought Locker in, though.
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If we do have Hoyer, Manziel and Shaw as quarterbacks in 2015 and Hoyer beats out Manziel to start there will be one huge difference. If Hoyer struggles during the season I doubt there will be a huge outpouring of pressure to put Manziel in and replace him if Pettine says the Browns have a better chance to win with Hoyer. I for one will believe him this time. I had to see it for myself in the Bengals game. I had it in my mind Manziel would be a spark for the anemic offense. We saw what happened.
There will, it'll just be Shaw not Manziel.
There will, it'll just be Shaw not Manziel.
Shaw will never generate the kind of public outcry pressure that JM did.
Unfortunately I don't think it helps him to make excuses like having to look over his shoulder. Everybody in the NFL looks over their shoulder.
I never saw Hoyer use that excuse, Steve. I saw him deny it was a factor many times. I just never bought that the JM pressure was never a factor in his deteriorating performance.
... why else would he have put JM in?
Because Hoyer's play deteriorated so badly that he was left with no other choice. It's really that simple.
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Haslam, Farmer and Pettine off on a 3 day retreat to discuss strategy. It will be interesting to see what their strategy going forward will be? I keep seeing hints about going after the franchise qb. I don't know. We have had big problems in this area. I thought Mariota might be worth going after but I agree with some who have posted here about him playing in a gimmicky offense at Oregon. Winston has the personal issues but looks like he would be a good qb. The other option I see is trying to improve the team with our draft, signing Hoyer as a FA, Shaw as back up. That is the one I like.
I'd bet they are going to try and swing a trade for an existing franchise QB, possibly giving up multiple first-round picks to get one.
I'd bet they are going to try and swing a trade for an existing franchise QB, possibly giving up multiple first-round picks to get one.
Name a few.
Top teams all seem to have so-called 'Franchise QBs'. Crappy teams do not.
If somebody has a 'Franchise QB' why would they trade him?
Makes not sense, IMHO
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I'd bet they are going to try and swing a trade for an existing franchise QB, possibly giving up multiple first-round picks to get one.
Name a few.
Top teams all seem to have so-called 'Franchise QBs'. Crappy teams do not.
If somebody has a 'Franchise QB' why would they trade him?
Makes not sense, IMHO
Name a few.
Top teams all seem to have so-called 'Franchise QBs'. Crappy teams do not.
If somebody has a 'Franchise QB' why would they trade him?
Makes not sense, IMHO
Name a few?
Kelly Holcomb, Mike Pagel, Trent Dilfer, Matt Schaub, Matt Flynn, Kirk Cousins now Nick Foles.
WSS
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if anything a team might trade their backup not knowing if he'll turn into a 'franchise' qb or not.
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3-Day meeting to discuss strategy and direction with an Owner that has little knowledge of football can only mean one thing.
"Fail"
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The other option I see is trying to improve the team with our draft, signing Hoyer as a FA, Shaw as back up. That is the one I like.
Thats my pick. You cant pick or sign a franchise QB that doesn't even exist
Build a bullet proof core with 2 solid lines added to that bad ass defensive backfield, and we should be fine.....
A great team will make an average QB much better......(rarely works the other way though)
Thats my pick. You cant pick or sign a franchise QB that doesn't even exist
Build a bullet proof core with 2 solid lines added to that bad ass defensive backfield, and we should be fine.....
A great team will make an average QB much better......(rarely works the other way though)
Hm.
I don't think that's the case at all.
How many average QB's have made it to the Super Bowl in the past 10 years?
Brady, Wilson, Manning, Flacco, Kaepernick, Roethlisberger, Manning, Rodgers, Warner, Brees, Grossman, Hasselbeck, McNabb
Outside of Kaepernick, Grossman and maybe Hasselbeck, seems like the common denominator has been a consistently productive to elite quarterback. There aren't many one-and-done teams in that list, but it's no coincidence that the ones that are are the ones that have the "average" quarterbacks.
While building two badass lines and a solid running game sounds great on paper, it's a lot harder in implementation. That's anywhere from 8-10 contracts that you have to both align and pay. If you want 8-10 badass players, that's 8-10 badass contracts. Say you finally get those 8-10 players all signed for varying contracts. It's highly unlikely that they'll all be rookies. It's more likely you'll have to supplement with experienced, and overpaid, veterans. Now your window is even smaller to win a championship.
You sign a guy who's 28, you have 2-3 years on him at best. You sign 2 guys that are 28, one guy that's 27, a few that are 25, and then you have 3 or 4 rookies that take time to develop? By the time the rookies develop and, the two 28 year olds and the 27 year old are done, and the 25 year olds are now 27-28. Now you've got to replace those guys that are gone with new rookies, which means they're going to take a few years to develop.
While that above system is great, it's nothing to rely on. That's what you do when you have an established, solid franchise quarterback. Not when you're trying to mask an average QB.
It's actually much easier to find a franchise quarterback.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
3-Day meeting to discuss strategy and direction with an Owner that has little knowledge of football can only mean one thing.
"Fail"
3-Day meeting to discuss strategy and direction with an Owner that has little knowledge of football can only mean one thing.
"Fail"
It's just like trying to talk football with you.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Thats my pick. You cant pick or sign a franchise QB that doesn't even exist
Build a bullet proof core with 2 solid lines added to that bad ass defensive backfield, and we should be fine.....
A great team will make an average QB much better......(rarely works the other way though)
Hm.
I don't think that's the case at all.
How many average QB's have made it to the Super Bowl in the past 10 years?
Brady, Wilson, Manning, Flacco, Kaepernick, Roethlisberger, Manning, Rodgers, Warner, Brees, Grossman, Hasselbeck, McNabb
Outside of Kaepernick, Grossman and maybe Hasselbeck, seems like the common denominator has been a consistently productive to elite quarterback. There aren't many one-and-done teams in that list, but it's no coincidence that the ones that are are the ones that have the "average" quarterbacks.
While building two badass lines and a solid running game sounds great on paper, it's a lot harder in implementation. That's anywhere from 8-10 contracts that you have to both align and pay. If you want 8-10 badass players, that's 8-10 badass contracts. Say you finally get those 8-10 players all signed for varying contracts. It's highly unlikely that they'll all be rookies. It's more likely you'll have to supplement with experienced, and overpaid, veterans. Now your window is even smaller to win a championship.
You sign a guy who's 28, you have 2-3 years on him at best. You sign 2 guys that are 28, one guy that's 27, a few that are 25, and then you have 3 or 4 rookies that take time to develop? By the time the rookies develop and, the two 28 year olds and the 27 year old are done, and the 25 year olds are now 27-28. Now you've got to replace those guys that are gone with new rookies, which means they're going to take a few years to develop.
While that above system is great, it's nothing to rely on. That's what you do when you have an established, solid franchise quarterback. Not when you're trying to mask an average QB.
It's actually much easier to find a franchise quarterback.
It's actually much easier to find a franchise quarterback.
Yeah they just fall off trees.
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It's actually much easier to find a franchise quarterback.
Yeah they just fall off trees.
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^ Internet tough guys on this board LOL
You say it's easier to find a franchise QB than to put together two good lines . . . How many elite QB's are in the league compared to good O lines and D Lines? Not to mention those elite QB's tend to operate opposite of good to very good D's and have an O-line that can block somebody. Plus you don't need every lineman to be an elite lineman and require huge contracts to have a good unit. Your post was just lacking any basis in fact.
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^ Internet tough guys on this board LOL
You say it's easier to find a franchise QB than to put together two good lines . . . How many elite QB's are in the league compared to good O lines and D Lines? Not to mention those elite QB's tend to operate opposite of good to very good D's and have an O-line that can block somebody. Plus you don't need every lineman to be an elite lineman and require huge contracts to have a good unit. Your post was just lacking any basis in fact.
^ Internet tough guys on this board LOL
You say it's easier to find a franchise QB than to put together two good lines . . . How many elite QB's are in the league compared to good O lines and D Lines? Not to mention those elite QB's tend to operate opposite of good to very good D's and have an O-line that can block somebody. Plus you don't need every lineman to be an elite lineman and require huge contracts to have a good unit. Your post was just lacking any basis in fact.
No, I said it was easier to find a franchise quarterback than win a Super Bowl with two elite lines and an average quarterback.
But if you'd like to contradict that point, I'd love to read it.
How many "average" quarterbacks have won a Super Bowl in the last 15 years? I'll wait.
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it'd be nice to have an elite D, an elite O and an elite QB.
the D is closer to becoming that. just need to beef up the line and a couple of LB positions.
once the OL is finally fixed (which has been said now by me for 4 years, at least) then we just need people at the skill positons, WR and QB to cap it off.
manziel has shown not a glimpse of being able to play in the league. i think they'll relegate him to the bench if not trade him, which means the browns resign hoyer or get a serviceable vet and then draft a late rounder hoping he can play at the nfl level.
if not set your sights on the 2016 QB class.
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it'd be nice to have an elite D, an elite O and an elite QB.
the D is closer to becoming that. just need to beef up the line and a couple of LB positions.
once the OL is finally fixed (which has been said now by me for 4 years, at least) then we just need people at the skill positons, WR and QB to cap it off.
manziel has shown not a glimpse of being able to play in the league. i think they'll relegate him to the bench if not trade him, which means the browns resign hoyer or get a serviceable vet and then draft a late rounder hoping he can play at the nfl level.
if not set your sights on the 2016 QB class.
it'd be nice to have an elite D, an elite O and an elite QB.
the D is closer to becoming that. just need to beef up the line and a couple of LB positions.
once the OL is finally fixed (which has been said now by me for 4 years, at least) then we just need people at the skill positons, WR and QB to cap it off.
Exactly, we are finally on the verge of having two respectable lines and a good D. Turning away from completing them would be a terrible decision.
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I'll give you that . . . How many elite QB's have won with no run game or run D, or effective pass blocking? It doesn't matter how elite your QB is if you have none of those things.
I'll give you that . . . How many elite QB's have won with no run game or run D, or effective pass blocking? It doesn't matter how elite your QB is if you have none of those things.
That's very true. I wasn't advocating for us to abandon the strategy of building from the inside out. I was simply pointing out that it's much more likely to stumble across a franchise quarterback than it is to juggle 10 franchise players along both lines and win a Super Bowl.
And who says we don't already have an elite offensive line? Before Mack went down with an injury, the a Browns offensive line was ranked 1st in the league by PFF.
Further, investing another first round pick doesn't guarantee it will be elite. We have two firsts and two seconds already invested in the offensive line. Compare that with Dallas, who finished the season with the first overall offensive line that features an undrafted player and a 4th round pick.
We have a strong foundation on both sides of the ball. Even if we stood pat and didn't acquire a single player on either line, we'd still be in a better position than more than half of the league.
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