So what does Cleveland do about Gordon?
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I am upset with some of the Browns players as well. Where was the mentoring and guidance for someone like Gordon? I read where the photos of the Browns players partying on the plane with Gordon and putting out some photos on instagram which someone in the NFL saw is the reason why when the plane landed Gordon had 4 hours to report for a drug test.
Well I agree with that wholeheartedly. It sure seems like there's an old pro or two that could put his arm around the kid and say dude watch out, you're throwing your life away. Too bad. It's not like Gordon is a genius to begin with.
WSS
Well I agree with that wholeheartedly. It sure seems like there's an old pro or two that could put his arm around the kid and say dude watch out, you're throwing your life away. Too bad. It's not like Gordon is a genius to begin with.
WSS
Any possibility that has already happened? Many times even? Who's to say?
Lets not knock the team leaders just because someone hasnt followed their example.
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Well I agree with that wholeheartedly. It sure seems like there's an old pro or two that could put his arm around the kid and say dude watch out, you're throwing your life away. Too bad. It's not like Gordon is a genius to begin with.
WSS
Any possibility that has already happened? Many times even? Who's to say?
Lets not knock the team leaders just because someone hasnt followed their example.
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APOLLO Vs CLUBBER LANG (Mr.T) - Face Off! in High Definition in HD:
Gordon and Chris Carter.
WSS
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we had veterans calling out these guys in public and a lot of folks said it was wrong and they shouldn't have done it. So, lets assume that BEFORE they went public, they tried in private. It only seems reasonable. Josh was surrounded by leaders who worked hard, stayed clean, showed up and gave effort every day, which is HOW you lead.
It's insane to lump any of this on his team mates. And if "he" is, then he is the worst team player ever
Finally, whether he is "awed" by other players or not is irrelevant and a kind of stupid. What does that have to do with anything???
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we had veterans calling out these guys in public and a lot of folks said it was wrong and they shouldn't have done it. So, lets assume that BEFORE they went public, they tried in private. It only seems reasonable. Josh was surrounded by leaders who worked hard, stayed clean, showed up and gave effort every day, which is HOW you lead.
It's insane to lump any of this on his team mates. And if "he" is, then he is the worst team player ever
Finally, whether he is "awed" by other players or not is irrelevant and a kind of stupid. What does that have to do with anything???
It mens that unfortunately he doesn't seem to respect some of the great veterans in the league. I thought that was clear.we had veterans calling out these guys in public and a lot of folks said it was wrong and they shouldn't have done it. So, lets assume that BEFORE they went public, they tried in private. It only seems reasonable. Josh was surrounded by leaders who worked hard, stayed clean, showed up and gave effort every day, which is HOW you lead.
It's insane to lump any of this on his team mates. And if "he" is, then he is the worst team player ever
Finally, whether he is "awed" by other players or not is irrelevant and a kind of stupid. What does that have to do with anything???
WSS
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It mens that unfortunately he doesn't seem to respect some of the great veterans in the league. I thought that was clear.we had veterans calling out these guys in public and a lot of folks said it was wrong and they shouldn't have done it. So, lets assume that BEFORE they went public, they tried in private. It only seems reasonable. Josh was surrounded by leaders who worked hard, stayed clean, showed up and gave effort every day, which is HOW you lead.
It's insane to lump any of this on his team mates. And if "he" is, then he is the worst team player ever
Finally, whether he is "awed" by other players or not is irrelevant and a kind of stupid. What does that have to do with anything???
WSS
It mens that unfortunately he doesn't seem to respect some of the great veterans in the league. I thought that was clear.
WSS
It wasn't. But now it is.
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cbbacker said:
I don't see what value he has? You do understand he isn't just suspended, he is banished essentially. He has continually broken the rules, while it's unlikely; he could be left out longer than a year. Even if he comes back what value does he have? No team will chance anything more then a 6 or 7 at best for a guy who is 1 incident from a lifetime ban.
He could have an amazing year and he would still be worthless to most teams. He would need to have like 4 years clean, and playing at a high level before he has any real value.
I hate the idea of cutting a talented player, but some people just will not learn until they have their livelyhood taken away. You cannot continue to let him make the organization look bad. If you do, it invites not only Gordon to continue breaking the rules, but also shows his teamates that they can get away with it as well. That kind of attitude can permeate a locker room and cause some real issues. Some team mates will hate him, and others will act like him.
I just don't think it's worth it.
I agree with you except that I believe a team WILL take a chance with him & I would wish him well. For the Browns, I don't think it's worth it to keep him. Not only does he make bad decisions, he plays without PRIDE. If he played with pride, he would play hard EVERY down & he clearly does not. He put himself under the microscope & has to live with being highly scrutinized. Sorry Josh, but YOU live with the consequences of your actions. Playing in the NFL is a privilege to be earned, not a right based on talent alone. Cutting him makes a strong & positive statement to those Browns' players who have worked their butts off to earn the privilege to be here, especially a few who have overcome previous off field issues. If he had HALF their pride & work ethic, he wouldn't be where he is now. Let another team babysit him. The Browns have supported him long enough. Also keep in mind that we won FOUR games in his ONE productive season & were more successful with him OFF the field than ON it in 2014. Could he come back to hurt us?..Possibly, but we don't know that. What we DO know is that he has & is hurting the Browns now as they are working to reverse a negative culture. Josh Gordon lacks the pride real winners have. Real winners don't blame their past for their shortcomings, they forge ahead to positive growth.
The Browns & their Fans deserve better.
Mike
I agree with you except that I believe a team WILL take a chance with him & I would wish him well. For the Browns, I don't think it's worth it to keep him. Not only does he make bad decisions, he plays without PRIDE. If he played with pride, he would play hard EVERY down & he clearly does not. He put himself under the microscope & has to live with being highly scrutinized. Sorry Josh, but YOU live with the consequences of your actions. Playing in the NFL is a privilege to be earned, not a right based on talent alone. Cutting him makes a strong & positive statement to those Browns' players who have worked their butts off to earn the privilege to be here, especially a few who have overcome previous off field issues. If he had HALF their pride & work ethic, he wouldn't be where he is now. Let another team babysit him. The Browns have supported him long enough. Also keep in mind that we won FOUR games in his ONE productive season & were more successful with him OFF the field than ON it in 2014. Could he come back to hurt us?..Possibly, but we don't know that. What we DO know is that he has & is hurting the Browns now as they are working to reverse a negative culture. Josh Gordon lacks the pride real winners have. Real winners don't blame their past for their shortcomings, they forge ahead to positive growth.
The Browns & their Fans deserve better.
Mike
You are 100% right. A team WILL sign him. That sadly is unfortunate for the Browns. Teams will always try and find a steal when they can. The Patriots have been doing it for years. The problem is, usually it takes that life hit of hitting bottom, and having your dream taken away before they realize they truly have something to lose. Until then, the Browns are nothing more then an organization of excuses when it comes to Gordon.
I don't want to lose a dynamic playmaker such as Gordon either, but he is a bad influence on this team whether he means to be or not. I wish him the best, but how can you expect anything other then the worst? He hasn't proven he can make good decisions. Even in his letter he makes excuses of not knowing, or he was just around weed, but didn't smoke. etc. This kid is damaged, and even with his future in doubt, still believes he didn't do anything wrong. That isn't the sign of a mature kid who understands his place in this world, and on this team. If he isn't mature enough to stay away from his so called friends who do this garbage, then he doesn't deserve anymore chances. He has had plenty of them. I wonder how many on this board, would continually fail like he has making bad decision after decision since high school? I bet 95% would have shaped up by now.
At some point you just have to cut the cord and let them fall on their face.
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I feel like a lot of the people of this board don't know what it is like to grow up without a father. I personally don't know what it's like, but I imagine that you lack the discipline you would otherwise have if you did have a father. Personally, I know that I was always frightened by disappointing my father. Your mother is always there to coddle you, but your father is there to turn you into a man that will force you to own up to your own personal responsibilities. Not really defending Josh (he's a dumbass from my perspective), but you gotta walk a mile in his shoes before you scream "CUT HIM".
I feel like a lot of the people of this board don't know what it is like to grow up without a father. I personally don't know what it's like, but I imagine that you lack the discipline you would otherwise have if you did have a father. Personally, I know that I was always frightened by disappointing my father. Your mother is always there to coddle you, but your father is there to turn you into a man that will force you to own up to your own personal responsibilities. Not really defending Josh (he's a dumbass from my perspective), but you gotta walk a mile in his shoes before you scream "CUT HIM".
I am sorry but this has nothing to do with Josh Gordon. Can only a father teach a son right from wrong? Can only a mother teach a daughter right from wrong? Can only a married couple only teach kids there are consequences to your decisions? A missing father might have had some impact on him, but to say that is the reason he is who he is; is just crazy. There are untold amounts of people who had no father, and grew up and became at least upstanding citizens, if not successful citizens DESPITE not having a father. This is one of the all time biggest copouts to the upbringing of our children.
I am sure his mother taught him right from wrong, I am sure he learned and experienced what happens when you break the rules ( like getting kicked out of Baylor). This is his fault alone, and no other outside forces caused this. I personally cannot stand copouts, Life is simple, make good choices, and life will be better.
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I feel like a lot of the people of this board don't know what it is like to grow up without a father. I personally don't know what it's like, but I imagine that you lack the discipline you would otherwise have if you did have a father. Personally, I know that I was always frightened by disappointing my father. Your mother is always there to coddle you, but your father is there to turn you into a man that will force you to own up to your own personal responsibilities. Not really defending Josh (he's a dumbass from my perspective), but you gotta walk a mile in his shoes before you scream "CUT HIM".
I am sorry but this has nothing to do with Josh Gordon. Can only a father teach a son right from wrong? Can only a mother teach a daughter right from wrong? Can only a married couple only teach kids there are consequences to your decisions? A missing father might have had some impact on him, but to say that is the reason he is who he is; is just crazy. There are untold amounts of people who had no father, and grew up and became at least upstanding citizens, if not successful citizens DESPITE not having a father. This is one of the all time biggest copouts to the upbringing of our children.
I am sure his mother taught him right from wrong, I am sure he learned and experienced what happens when you break the rules ( like getting kicked out of Baylor). This is his fault alone, and no other outside forces caused this. I personally cannot stand copouts, Life is simple, make good choices, and life will be better.
cbbacker said:
Life is simple, make good choices, and life will be better.
and try and be the best person you can be along the way, especially to those who have gone out of their way to help you.
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I put it like this...
If I own a business, and hired somebody who showed in one year that he COULD be great I'd be excited about what he COULD do in the future. BUT if he couldn't stay at work b/c he kept getting suspended (especially for a WHOLE YEAR), I'm pretty sure it'd be time to cut bait and move forward...
It's not impossible to find another good WR.
Also, it's not guaranteed that Gordon will ever be as great again as we saw in a small, 14-game sample size... Some players are one-and-done (Peyton Hillis anybody)...
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Let's not make a story bigger. How do we know if nothing was said to Josh about Drinking?? Not Team Babysitter's, Josh states he blew it and thought drinking suspension ended to league at end of season, (Yes Dumb) but if was asked by teammate's I would think that was his answer. Josh adult and responsible for his own suspension violations, I am sure he signed his restrictions and sounds like a agent should have told him soon as he heard the word Las Vegas..
Let's not make a story bigger. How do we know if nothing was said to Josh about Drinking?? Not Team Babysitter's, Josh states he blew it and thought drinking suspension ended to league at end of season, (Yes Dumb) but if was asked by teammate's I would think that was his answer. Josh adult and responsible for his own suspension violations, I am sure he signed his restrictions and sounds like a agent should have told him soon as he heard the word Las Vegas..
You're kidding me Josh- when they suspended you I'm 99.9% certain they spelled out exactly what you could and couldn't do- and when. Too thick to listen?
it's not a warning from the Browns is a warning from the league. How much worse off is he if we cut him? None. Where is the punishment? There isn't any.
And the benefit for the Browns? None.
WSS
Ask anyone who's been fired from a high paying job if they were better off? Cutting Gordon says- there are limits as to how much we're going to tolerate around here- regardless of how talented you are.
It's a tough call Steve- and the fans aren't the ones who will make it. It would be a nightmare if the Browns do cut Gordon and he straightens out his act and has a great career with another team. How many chances does the guy deserve? He's had plenty of them.
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I would get rid of any car that is unreliable and is hardly ever in running condition.
So are you spoiled, stupid or just merely allow your emotions to govern how you act, or more aptly, react?
I don't give shit away for free. No person who understands the concept of value does. It's called capitalism and it's kind of a big deal around these parts.
So are you spoiled, stupid or just merely allow your emotions to govern how you act, or more aptly, react?
I don't give shit away for free. No person who understands the concept of value does. It's called capitalism and it's kind of a big deal around these parts.
Insults aside, I'd say it's ignorant to expect a car with a blown engine to miraculously start running like a top the next day. Also, smart capitalism also involves cutting your losses instead of wasting resources on a failed endeavor. It's called opportunity cost. Even without counting towards the cap and not taking a roster spot, the opportunity cost of keeping Gordon is too high. It's time to move on and invest in a player who might someday contribute to the Cleveland Browns. Ya dicknuts.
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I think you can make a good argument for or against keeping Gordon. I don't see anything telling me he is ever going to learn but on the other hand I hate not getting any value for him in return.
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So are you spoiled, stupid or just merely allow your emotions to govern how you act, or more aptly, react?
I don't give shit away for free. No person who understands the concept of value does. It's called capitalism and it's kind of a big deal around these parts.
Insults aside, I'd say it's ignorant to expect a car with a blown engine to miraculously start running like a top the next day. Also, smart capitalism also involves cutting your losses instead of wasting resources on a failed endeavor. It's called opportunity cost. Even without counting towards the cap and not taking a roster spot, the opportunity cost of keeping Gordon is too high. It's time to move on and invest in a player who might someday contribute to the Cleveland Browns. Ya dicknuts.
Insults aside, I'd say it's ignorant to expect a car with a blown engine to miraculously start running like a top the next day. Also, smart capitalism also involves cutting your losses instead of wasting resources on a failed endeavor. It's called opportunity cost. Even without counting towards the cap and not taking a roster spot, the opportunity cost of keeping Gordon is too high. It's time to move on and invest in a player who might someday contribute to the Cleveland Browns. Ya dicknuts.
I apologize for the insults, they were unwarranted, I'll admit.
We disagree on the opportunity cost. If he does come back, awesome. If he doesn't, well he can't play anywhere else. I see no downside and a lot of risk by letting him go. It might be a tad vindictive but then again I am a dicknuts so it makes sense.
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Cut him/keep him it doesn't matter. The roster for this year will look the same either way, the payroll for this year will look the same either way.
Let's revisit this once it actually means something to an upcoming Browns season...
Who are you guys voting for in 2020?
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Cut him/keep him it doesn't matter. The roster for this year will look the same either way, the payroll for this year will look the same either way.
Let's revisit this once it actually means something to an upcoming Browns season...
Who are you guys voting for in 2020?
Who are you guys voting for in 2020?
I usually just write myself in on the ballot.
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No... you send a message to the rest of the locker room.
"we want you for your athletic talent, and you can screw up
3 times, 4 times, and we still won't have the nads to dump
you off this team."
I'm all for second chances, but this ignorant, entitled, enabled guy
needs to go.
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Some of us are talking like Josh just "made a mistake" and everyone deserves a second chance.
Hey, I believe in second chances--I wouldn't be where I am in life without a couple of second chances
over the years.
Here's the problem: this shit has been going on since October 2010 when he fell asleep in the
drive-thru of a Taco Bell and police found weed in his car. I've read the accounts of his fuck-ups
and in every single one he says he has learned his lesson and is going to apply himself and how
tough it is to watch his teammates on the field blah, blah, blah. His recent heart-warming letter is
just more of the same---"I've made bad choices, I need to grow up, I won't let you down, etc., etc.
The ONLY reason to keep him around is that he won't cost us anything, but how much time do we spend
spinning our wheels, running in place with this guy? Does anyone, based on his past conduct, honestly
expect him to suddenly change? I'm sorry, I just see more and more and more of the same in the
future for Josh Gordon.
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Douche,
About the only place I disagree with your last 3 posts is that I am NOT yet ready to throw the towel in on Johnny. We'll see what happens there.
As far as Josh goes, in a nutshell, your statement "Getting rid of him is addition by subtraction" is exactly what I feel. People are thinking that not cutting him costs us nothing. BULLCRAP! Keeping him costs us FAR MORE than "immediate" money.Keeping him perpetuates the widespread negative perception of the Browns that still exists. Let's get rid of the negative & go forward
As Farmer indicated about Johnny, "talk's cheap". Haven't we heard Gordon's talk long enough?
I'm for sending a strong message that athleticism is only PART of what is needed for success. Maybe Johnny will get it, but it's too late for Gordon. Cutting Gordon also may send a message to Johnny that talent isn't enough.
CUT Josh Gordon now, please.
Mike
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I just want to see what happens with Johnny, but on a very short leash. While he must be responsible for his actions, our new offensive coaches CANNOT allow an entire season go by without holding him accountable. Apparently, his week to week progress (lack of) was NOT monitored. This TC, it's "put up or shut up" time for Johnny.
The cutting of Gordon will, at least IMO), send the message.
We'll see, but I think we basically agree...You can't be healthy as a Family without taking the trash out as needed.
Mike
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