Hall of Fame Finalists Rejects
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But here is something to support his cause: the Hall of Fame has published it All Decade Teams. Here are the quarterbacks chosen to represent each decade:
20s: Jimmy Conzelman and Paddy Driscoll
30s: Dutch Clark, Arnie Herber, Cecil Isbell
40s: Sammy Baugh, Sid Luckman, Bob Waterfield
50s: Otto Graham, Bobby Layne, Norm Van Brocklin
60s: Bart Starr, John Unitas, Sonny Jurgenson
70s: Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Ken Stabler
80s: Joe Montana and Dan Fouts
90s: John Elway and Brett Favre
00s: Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.
Favre, Peyton and Brady are not eligible yet......but the only other people on the above list that are not inducted into the HOF are Cecil Isbell, and Ken Stabler.
I figure that an argument can be made that if a guy is good enough to be All Decade, he should be good enough to be in the HOF.
Well, the guy that picked Stabler over Tark was smoking crack. Did they have crack then?
Plus, Stabler was pretty bad in the 80's bouncing around with Houston and NO.
Love the Snake, just don't think he needs to be in the Hall.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Well, the guy that picked Stabler over Tark was smoking crack. Did they have crack then?
Plus, Stabler was pretty bad in the 80's bouncing around with Houston and NO.
Love the Snake, just don't think he needs to be in the Hall.
Zombo
Now that I look at Tark's stats ... maybe Stabler was better than Tark in the 70's. But Tark was a lot better in the 60s than Kenny was in the 80's, so no comparison there.
Stabler had a 75 rating and threw a ton of picks, playing almost half his career in the post 1977 passing era ... I just think his lifestyle and knee surgeries did him in and he didn't have the sustained success a HOF should have.
Zombo
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Eddie DeBartolo Jr. 3
Art Modell 2
The son of an old time Cleveland mafioso, oh no wait, a shopping center magnet and Art Modell? Art should have been fitted for concrete overshoes and dumped off the 9th street pier. The Mofo fired Paul Brown, moved the franchise, his name should be vilified by any oldtime Browns fan.
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But here is something to support his cause: the Hall of Fame has published it All Decade Teams. Here are the quarterbacks chosen to represent each decade:
20s: Jimmy Conzelman and Paddy Driscoll
30s: Dutch Clark, Arnie Herber, Cecil Isbell
40s: Sammy Baugh, Sid Luckman, Bob Waterfield
50s: Otto Graham, Bobby Layne, Norm Van Brocklin
60s: Bart Starr, John Unitas, Sonny Jurgenson
70s: Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Ken Stabler
80s: Joe Montana and Dan Fouts
90s: John Elway and Brett Favre
00s: Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.
Favre, Peyton and Brady are not eligible yet......but the only other people on the above list that are not inducted into the HOF are Cecil Isbell, and Ken Stabler.
I figure that an argument can be made that if a guy is good enough to be All Decade, he should be good enough to be in the HOF.
Well, the guy that picked Stabler over Tark was smoking crack. Did they have crack then?
Plus, Stabler was pretty bad in the 80's bouncing around with Houston and NO.
Love the Snake, just don't think he needs to be in the Hall.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Well, the guy that picked Stabler over Tark was smoking crack. Did they have crack then?
Plus, Stabler was pretty bad in the 80's bouncing around with Houston and NO.
Love the Snake, just don't think he needs to be in the Hall.
Zombo
The company I worked for had seasons for the Oilers and the Astros. Stabler was fun to watch and he was pretty productive. I have to say though, you think Johnny parties, holy crap, The Snake would put him to shame. He was all over town during that era.
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Very surprised Marvin Harrison didn't get in. He's a superior receiver to Tim Brown (who got in).
Stupid.
Very surprised Marvin Harrison didn't get in. He's a superior receiver to Tim Brown (who got in).
Stupid.
I think it is a matter of timing. While I agree with you that Harrison had a more productive career, the voters knew that Brown had waited quite a while and that "his time was due". Look how long Cris Carter and Andre Reed had to wait, both of which were perhaps ahead of Harrison. Harrison's "time will come".
I thought Pace and Warner would make it, but again as first time eligibles "their time did not come". Seau was getting in first ballot regardless.
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Very surprised Marvin Harrison didn't get in. He's a superior receiver to Tim Brown (who got in).
Stupid.
I think it is a matter of timing. While I agree with you that Harrison had a more productive career, the voters knew that Brown had waited quite a while and that "his time was due". Look how long Cris Carter and Andre Reed had to wait, both of which were perhaps ahead of Harrison. Harrison's "time will come".
I thought Pace and Warner would make it, but again as first time eligibles "their time did not come". Seau was getting in first ballot regardless.
I think it is a matter of timing. While I agree with you that Harrison had a more productive career, the voters knew that Brown had waited quite a while and that "his time was due". Look how long Cris Carter and Andre Reed had to wait, both of which were perhaps ahead of Harrison. Harrison's "time will come".
I thought Pace and Warner would make it, but again as first time eligibles "their time did not come". Seau was getting in first ballot regardless.
While I believe, and ultimately agree with you, making Harrison wait his turn for an inferior career in Tim Brown is an even bigger travesty. This has become more political than merit.
And Harrison was better than Reed and Cris Carter, as far as production goes.
Harrison: 14,580 YDS, 1102 REC, 13. 2 AVG, 128 TDs in 13 seasons.
Carter: 13, 899 YDS, 1101 REC, 12.6 AVG, 130 TDs in 16 seasons.
Reed: 13, 198 YDS, 951 REC, 13.9 AVG, 87 TDs in 16 seasons.
He wasn't just some sneaky good WR, he was flat out amazing. The best route-runner you'll ever see (after Jerry Rice). And his numbers surpassed both of those HOFers. And don't get me started on Terrell Owens not getting in, regardless of his irate and diva-like nature. The man is arguably the 3rd best wide receiver ever.
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He wasn't just some sneaky good WR, he was flat out amazing. The best route-runner you'll ever see (after Jerry Rice). And his numbers surpassed both of those HOFers. And don't get me started on Terrell Owens not getting in, regardless of his irate and diva-like nature. The man is arguably the 3rd best wide receiver ever.
Just a guess but, as I recall, wasn't he involved in some 'off field activity' that took a lot of luster off him, in general?
Maybe some voters are taking that into account, not unlike with some baseball writers and PEDs.
Dunno.
"God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy." -
I think it is a matter of timing. While I agree with you that Harrison had a more productive career, the voters knew that Brown had waited quite a while and that "his time was due". Look how long Cris Carter and Andre Reed had to wait, both of which were perhaps ahead of Harrison. Harrison's "time will come".
I thought Pace and Warner would make it, but again as first time eligibles "their time did not come". Seau was getting in first ballot regardless.
While I believe, and ultimately agree with you, making Harrison wait his turn for an inferior career in Tim Brown is an even bigger travesty. This has become more political than merit.
And Harrison was better than Reed and Cris Carter, as far as production goes.
Harrison: 14,580 YDS, 1102 REC, 13. 2 AVG, 128 TDs in 13 seasons.
Carter: 13, 899 YDS, 1101 REC, 12.6 AVG, 130 TDs in 16 seasons.
Reed: 13, 198 YDS, 951 REC, 13.9 AVG, 87 TDs in 16 seasons.
He wasn't just some sneaky good WR, he was flat out amazing. The best route-runner you'll ever see (after Jerry Rice). And his numbers surpassed both of those HOFers. And don't get me started on Terrell Owens not getting in, regardless of his irate and diva-like nature. The man is arguably the 3rd best wide receiver ever.
While I believe, and ultimately agree with you, making Harrison wait his turn for an inferior career in Tim Brown is an even bigger travesty. This has become more political than merit.
And Harrison was better than Reed and Cris Carter, as far as production goes.
Harrison: 14,580 YDS, 1102 REC, 13. 2 AVG, 128 TDs in 13 seasons.
Carter: 13, 899 YDS, 1101 REC, 12.6 AVG, 130 TDs in 16 seasons.
Reed: 13, 198 YDS, 951 REC, 13.9 AVG, 87 TDs in 16 seasons.
OK, fair arguments.....but note, Carter and Reed each had to wait 8-9 years before being selected. Tim Brown too. Harrison will probably not have to wait as long.
He wasn't just some sneaky good WR, he was flat out amazing. The best route-runner you'll ever see (after Jerry Rice). And his numbers surpassed both of those HOFers. And don't get me started on Terrell Owens not getting in, regardless of his irate and diva-like nature. The man is arguably the 3rd best wide receiver ever.
Owens should and likely will get in....but he is not eligible until next year fyi. He may have to suffer a waiting period just like Reed/Carter/Harrison/Brown. That receiver position often has a log jam going for it.
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He wasn't just some sneaky good WR, he was flat out amazing. The best route-runner you'll ever see (after Jerry Rice). And his numbers surpassed both of those HOFers. And don't get me started on Terrell Owens not getting in, regardless of his irate and diva-like nature. The man is arguably the 3rd best wide receiver ever.
Just a guess but, as I recall, wasn't he involved in some 'off field activity' that took a lot of luster off him, in general?
Maybe some voters are taking that into account, not unlike with some baseball writers and PEDs.
Dunno.
He wasn't just some sneaky good WR, he was flat out amazing. The best route-runner you'll ever see (after Jerry Rice). And his numbers surpassed both of those HOFers. And don't get me started on Terrell Owens not getting in, regardless of his irate and diva-like nature. The man is arguably the 3rd best wide receiver ever.
Who are #1 and 2? Rice OK....but #2?
Also....I think Paul Warfield may have been a better route runner.
Just a guess but, as I recall, wasn't he involved in some 'off field activity' that took a lot of luster off him, in general?
Maybe some voters are taking that into account, not unlike with some baseball writers and PEDs.
Dunno.
No, I think his whole spat with Donovan McNabb ....plus the fact that he was seen as a cancer on the team.....is the only negative issue with him. But many people may take his side on the McNabb thing. TO is more likely to get in the HOF than McNabb.
But I am not aware of any "off field" issues. No drugs, wife beating, child abuse, screwing prostitutes. etc. etc.....is there? Unless I just forgot?
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Moss is far and away the 2nd best receiver. And to think, if he had half the work ethic of Jerry Rice, he would have obliterated every WR record.
Pity.
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Moss is far and away the 2nd best receiver. And to think, if he had half the work ethic of Jerry Rice, he would have obliterated every WR record.
Pity.
Moss is far and away the 2nd best receiver. And to think, if he had half the work ethic of Jerry Rice, he would have obliterated every WR record.
Pity.
He had more innate talent than Rice....than anybody ever maybe. Not so the work effort.
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I cant believe Kevin Green made the list over Clay Mathews Sr.... that's a crime..
Good point. Comparative stats:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeKe00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MattCl00.htm
It is clearly all about the sacks: Greene had 160 in his career, Clay 70
(but I have no doubt that Clay was the better all around LB)
Greene's sack total is third all time behin Bruce Smith and Reggie White. That is why he gets the attention.
And I guess there is something to be said about that.
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He wasn't just some sneaky good WR, he was flat out amazing. The best route-runner you'll ever see (after Jerry Rice). And his numbers surpassed both of those HOFers. And don't get me started on Terrell Owens not getting in, regardless of his irate and diva-like nature. The man is arguably the 3rd best wide receiver ever.
Just a guess but, as I recall, wasn't he involved in some 'off field activity' that took a lot of luster off him, in general?
Maybe some voters are taking that into account, not unlike with some baseball writers and PEDs.
Dunno.
He wasn't just some sneaky good WR, he was flat out amazing. The best route-runner you'll ever see (after Jerry Rice). And his numbers surpassed both of those HOFers. And don't get me started on Terrell Owens not getting in, regardless of his irate and diva-like nature. The man is arguably the 3rd best wide receiver ever.
Just a guess but, as I recall, wasn't he involved in some 'off field activity' that took a lot of luster off him, in general?
Maybe some voters are taking that into account, not unlike with some baseball writers and PEDs.
Dunno.
Yep, I was just going to chime in and say this. This article is a little dated but I recall hearing a lot that behind the scenes the guy was a huge dick and did a lot of questionably legal things:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/114971-marvin-harrison-the-nfls-quiet-bad-boy-wide-receiver
Of course that didn't stop Ray Lewis so who knows.
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Starvin Marvin and Warner should be no-brainers
Starvin Marvin and Warner should be no-brainers
Harrison passed over twice now. Warner once.
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Starvin Marvin and Warner should be no-brainers
Harrison passed over twice now. Warner once.
Harrison passed over twice now. Warner once.
Yeah I really don't put much stock in All Star appearances or Hall of Fame inductions as the defining moment of players' careers
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Harrison passed over twice now. Warner once.
Yeah I really don't put much stock in All Star appearances or Hall of Fame inductions as the defining moment of players' careers
Yeah I really don't put much stock in All Star appearances or Hall of Fame inductions as the defining moment of players' careers
But the players do. Those 2 things....plus obviously championships define a player's career.
Unlike, say, the Oscars, which both George C. Scott and Marlon Brando turned down, you have never seen a player say "No thanks, don't bother putting me in the Hall of Fame"
Maybe actors and some musicians think its cool to turn down HOF designation (Sex Pistols).....athletes do not.
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Yeah I really don't put much stock in All Star appearances or Hall of Fame inductions as the defining moment of players' careers
But the players do. Those 2 things....plus obviously championships define a player's career.
Unlike, say, the Oscars, which both George C. Scott and Marlon Brando turned down, you have never seen a player say "No thanks, don't bother putting me in the Hall of Fame"
Maybe actors and some musicians think its cool to turn down HOF designation (Sex Pistols).....athletes do not.
But the players do. Those 2 things....plus obviously championships define a player's career.
Unlike, say, the Oscars, which both George C. Scott and Marlon Brando turned down, you have never seen a player say "No thanks, don't bother putting me in the Hall of Fame"
Maybe actors and some musicians think its cool to turn down HOF designation (Sex Pistols).....athletes do not.
Players like to be invited to sit with the cool kids, I don't disagree. As a fan there are players who don't deserve the accolades but get them and guys who don't them that should. When you have sportswriters and fans voting it never turns out well.
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Warren Moon was a play-off choker and a wife-beater. He's in. Kurt Warner in his prime was as good as anyone and has a ring. Great guy too. He's not in.
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Warren Moon was a play-off choker and a wife-beater. He's in. Kurt Warner in his prime was as good as anyone and has a ring. Great guy too. He's not in.
Warren Moon was a play-off choker and a wife-beater. He's in. Kurt Warner in his prime was as good as anyone and has a ring. Great guy too. He's not in.
Moon had to wait a while before being selected. Warner will probably get in quicker than Moon had to wait.
Are you saying Moon is really no better than like Vinny Testaverde or Drew Bledsoe or Kerry Collins? Guys that had long productive careers yet really didn't excel in the post season?
Perhaps....but I will give you these stats:
Moon is #7 in all time passing yards with 49,325, But, remember....because of his race really he wasn't invited to play in the NFL until after he had spent 5 years in Canada. In Canada he had 21,228 yards passing in his 5 years.
His total pro career yards would be 70,553....putting him #2 behind Favre if those were NFL yards.
Also.....he did WIN 3 CFL Grey Cup Championships. So he didn't choke up there. (and I think that the PFHOF voters took a lot of his CFL experience into consideration....without which he may very well have just been Testaverde or Bledsoe)
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