Rumor: Browns interested in trading up for Mariota
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If Winston were a "can't miss", he'd be impossible to get. 99% of the can't miss prospects are had by luck (no pun intended).i think the browns have a lot of talent. the question is do you trade your first round and 'something' else to move up to take winston or mariota when no one has them graded as the next andrew luck?
meanwhile with the first round we could get a dominate DT, a #1 WR and the rest you mentioned plus more in the later rounds (depending how much maneuvering the browns do). then if the FO thinks we're just that QB away next year you go all in.
hell, a lot of people thought (cough) manziel was the answer last year and we all see how good that worked out.
Winston's on field performance has very few flaws. He'd be a can't miss if not for one instance - the rape allegation.
Crab legs, the cafe incident...wouldn't be mentioned if not for the rape allegation.
Cam Newton stole laptops from classmates at Florida and was caught. Peyton Manning rubbed his bare ass and balls on a female trainer's face. Tom Brady left his pregnant girlfriend for someone else. Ben Roethlisberger may have sexually accosted someone. Brett Favre was a pill-popping drunk.
Every QB has a flaw somewhere. It's about finding the QB with the flaws you can manage or iron out.
Comparing Manziel and Winston just because they have off the field issues is like comparing Dalton and Weeden because they both have red hair.
We don't know the Manziel won't be a perennial Pro Bowler. However, if Winston can be had for the right price, I think it would be worth it to take a guy with the same amount of off the field questions but with a much, much more complete skill set.
If Winston were a "can't miss", he'd be impossible to get. 99% of the can't miss prospects are had by luck (no pun intended).
Winston's on field performance has very few flaws. He'd be a can't miss if not for one instance - the rape allegation.
Crab legs, the cafe incident...wouldn't be mentioned if not for the rape allegation.
Cam Newton stole laptops from classmates at Florida and was caught. Peyton Manning rubbed his bare ass and balls on a female trainer's face. Tom Brady left his pregnant girlfriend for someone else. Ben Roethlisberger may have sexually accosted someone. Brett Favre was a pill-popping drunk.
Every QB has a flaw somewhere. It's about finding the QB with the flaws you can manage or iron out.
Comparing Manziel and Winston just because they have off the field issues is like comparing Dalton and Weeden because they both have red hair.
We don't know the Manziel won't be a perennial Pro Bowler. However, if Winston can be had for the right price, I think it would be worth it to take a guy with the same amount of off the field questions but with a much, much more complete skill set.
Dude he's on video casually strolling out of a grocery store with a bag, of all things, of fucking crab legs.......but of course it would be talked about rape allegations or not. The café incident...amongst hundreds of smartphone obsessed college students all live tweeting the whole thing.....offff cccooouurrrssee it's going to be talked about if you're a prospect like Winston. Some MAC starter? No, who gives a shit...the guy that's contending his team for a national championship and angling himself to be the #1 pick? What times are we living in? These kids can't take a sideways shit without someone writing about it.
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I can't believe that this team, seeing our high QB pick failures, is even contemplating a high pick QB that we're gonna have to give up "a lot" to move up for. It would be one thing if we had one of those top picks, to look at a QB....but leveraging our draft for the next year or two on another skinny read option QB with a medium arm? It just doesn't make sense. If we're gonna have a small read option QB scampering out of the pocket for his life on every down i'd pretty much rather it be Manziel cause A) we already have him don't have to give up shit and
He's short but sturdier than Mariota, a lot sturdier. Mariota is faster but he will get Vick'ed out of the league in a few years if whatever team he goes to has him running consistently. -
A lot more foolish to ignore the needs of the team that have cost us success by squandering resources on 3 quarterbacks every season.
WSS
We gotta get one.
Brady
Wilson
Rodgers
Luck
Manning
Romo
Flacco
Cam
Those were the Quarterbacks of the last eight teams standing last year.
We have Manziel and Shaw.
C'mon man.
If you don't get the Qb right, everything else goes to waste.
Zombo
Zombo said:
We gotta get one.
Brady
Wilson
Rodgers
Luck
Manning
Romo
Flacco
Cam
Those were the Quarterbacks of the last eight teams standing last year.
We have Manziel and Shaw.
C'mon man.
If you don't get the Qb right, everything else goes to waste.
Zombo
And which of them struggled there first year as a starter? And what are the consistency numbers like?
And how many of the coaching staffs had been around for less than 2 years?
WSS
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The idea of getting the QB right is when the opportunity presents its self and all can see.
To me, that isn't Mariota. As by the day I see Winston being the #1 overall now that Tampa has let McCown go.
You're right, thus team does need to invest a top 10 pick into a QB eventually. This isn't the year for that.
The idea of getting the QB right is when the opportunity presents its self and all can see.
To me, that isn't Mariota. As by the day I see Winston being the #1 overall now that Tampa has let McCown go.
You're right, thus team does need to invest a top 10 pick into a QB eventually. This isn't the year for that.
Agreed- I'm not a Mariota fan- and Winston needs to prove he isn't a shoplifter\rapist.
If it means sticking with Hoyer or Manziel- and we "Fail for Cardale" so be it.
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Zombo said:
We gotta get one.
Brady
Wilson
Rodgers
Luck
Manning
Romo
Flacco
Cam
Those were the Quarterbacks of the last eight teams standing last year.
We have Manziel and Shaw.
C'mon man.
If you don't get the Qb right, everything else goes to waste.
Zombo
And which of them struggled there first year as a starter? And what are the consistency numbers like?
And how many of the coaching staffs had been around for less than 2 years?
WSS
And which of them struggled there first year as a starter? And what are the consistency numbers like?
And how many of the coaching staffs had been around for less than 2 years?
WSS
Nothing wrong with developing and I am all for continuity and keeping this staff together.
But if they make a call that they don't think Johnny is the answer there is absolutely nothing wrong with bringing in somebody who might be.
I mean, we are talking about an undersized guy that showed lack of discipline and character his first year and looked completely lost running the offense. He is also a guy with a special skill set that must be built around him, IMO.
So, if they make the judgement call that he is not worth it and look for another starter, I am OK with that.
You sure give Manziel a lot of benefit of the doubt, maybe more than a prudent team in our position should. Sometimes there is honor in admitting you were probably wrong and launching a Plan B rather than just probably wasting a year because every first round pick "deserves" at least a full season of being the starter.
I think we would be absolute fools to just say "we drafted him, so we are going forward with him" without weighing other options.
Manziel was not committed to he team, not sure why the team has to be committed to him.
Zombo
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@douche-nozzle said:
The importance of a franchise QB is essential but putting one on the Browns right now would be a waste.
What's that mean?
You grab a franchise QB whenever you can get one, numbnuts.
We were 7-6 with Hoyer, you don't think a better QB improves us?
You must be the dumbest motherfucker on earth.
Zombo
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@douche-nozzle said:
The importance of a franchise QB is essential but putting one on the Browns right now would be a waste.
Id also like to point out that the teams those QB's had when they started out were quite good talent wise around their young QB.
Wilson had a strong run game and defense to rely on. Cam had a similar situation plus the resurgence of Steve Smith.
Peyton might have had the worse situation, but that still including Marvin Harrison, Faulk and Terik Glenn on offense.
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@douche-nozzle said:
You can't apply the rules of a functional organization with a realistically close team to the Browns Pusscakes. Despite the coolaid you drink, and the lies you tell yourself, a franchise QB would improve the Browns record enough to see them come a game or two closer to third place in the division but would still be a waste until they build a team starting with FO, coaching, and core players.....after they have that in place for a few years in a row then a franchise QB would be the ticket.
So, we wouldn't just beat up on the Steelers, 31-10, we would also gain some spots in th estandings?
What's not to like?
Zombo
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@douche-nozzle said:
You can't apply the rules of a functional organization with a realistically close team to the Browns Pusscakes. Despite the coolaid you drink, and the lies you tell yourself, a franchise QB would improve the Browns record enough to see them come a game or two closer to third place in the division but would still be a waste until they build a team starting with FO, coaching, and core players.....after they have that in place for a few years in a row then a franchise QB would be the ticket.
So having someone like Aaron Rodgers on this team, with the offense and defense staying healthy- we finish no better than 3rd in the division? And you honestly believe that?
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well if you figure someone might be willing to trade with us to move up (and garner yet another first rounder for next year) considering our 'beast' schedule which everyone is already picking us to finish worse than last season, wouldn't we be in better shape to do that next year?
well if you figure someone might be willing to trade with us to move up (and garner yet another first rounder for next year) considering our 'beast' schedule which everyone is already picking us to finish worse than last season, wouldn't we be in better shape to do that next year?
"There's always next year" How long have we been saying that?
Why do we always think the next great QB will be there for us next year?
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well if you figure someone might be willing to trade with us to move up (and garner yet another first rounder for next year) considering our 'beast' schedule which everyone is already picking us to finish worse than last season, wouldn't we be in better shape to do that next year?
"There's always next year" How long have we been saying that?
Why do we always think the next great QB will be there for us next year?
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Who the hell knows when there will be a great Quarterback?
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Who the hell knows when there will be a great Quarterback?
Who the hell knows when there will be a great Quarterback?
That's besides the point. I'd rather put high picks into players that will contribute at other positions as opposed to drafting QB's that are most likely going to end up like Blaine Gabbert.
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Who the hell knows when there will be a great Quarterback?
That's besides the point. I'd rather put high picks into players that will contribute at other positions as opposed to drafting QB's that are most likely going to end up like Blaine Gabbert.
That's besides the point. I'd rather put high picks into players that will contribute at other positions as opposed to drafting QB's that are most likely going to end up like Blaine Gabbert.
besides the point is who gives a fuck who you would rather pick?
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besides the point is who gives a fuck who you would rather pick?
Uhhhh. I do, for starters.
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My point is not that we need to go all in on Mariotta or whoever, it is:
1.You are always looking for QBs it is by far the most important position.
2. You dont shy away from anyone just because you have the fabulous Johnny Football on your roster.
3. The position needs a big upgrade over what we currently have pencilled in for 2015.
Let's not pretend we can count on JM for anything right now.
If you enjoy losing to the Ravens, Steelers and Bungles every year, then fuck it, grab a Guard and a DT and lots and lots of Wrs and put your faith in Johnny and Conner. They are spunky!
Z
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My point is not that we need to go all in on Mariotta or whoever, it is:
1.You are always looking for QBs it is by far the most important position.
2. You dont shy away from anyone just because you have the fabulous Johnny Football on your roster.
3. The position needs a big upgrade over what we currently have pencilled in for 2015.
Let's not pretend we can count on JM for anything right now.
If you enjoy losing to the Ravens, Steelers and Bungles every year, then fuck it, grab a Guard and a DT and lots and lots of Wrs and put your faith in Johnny and Conner. They are spunky!
Z
Zombo said:
My point is not that we need to go all in on Mariotta or whoever, it is:
1.You are always looking for QBs it is by far the most important position.
2. You dont shy away from anyone just because you have the fabulous Johnny Football on your roster.
3. The position needs a big upgrade over what we currently have pencilled in for 2015.
Let's not pretend we can count on JM for anything right now.
If you enjoy losing to the Ravens, Steelers and Bungles every year, then fuck it, grab a Guard and a DT and lots and lots of Wrs and put your faith in Johnny and Conner. They are spunky!
Z
So you believe a team lead by Mariota would beat those three?
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I'm certainly no expert, so I'll defer those who are, but I AM of the belief that there may not be a franchise type QB in any given draft. I don't want to see us trading up JUST to take a QB. If the experts think there IS one or more worthy of such a move, they'll make it. When I look at the number of contributing players they brought in last off season, I'll trust them on this one.
Right now, the draft is purely speculation, so we'll see what happens.
Mike
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My point is not that we need to go all in on Mariotta or whoever, it is:
1.You are always looking for QBs it is by far the most important position.
2. You dont shy away from anyone just because you have the fabulous Johnny Football on your roster.
3. The position needs a big upgrade over what we currently have pencilled in for 2015.
Let's not pretend we can count on JM for anything right now.
If you enjoy losing to the Ravens, Steelers and Bungles every year, then fuck it, grab a Guard and a DT and lots and lots of Wrs and put your faith in Johnny and Conner. They are spunky!
Z
Zombo said:
My point is not that we need to go all in on Mariotta or whoever, it is:
1.You are always looking for QBs it is by far the most important position.
2. You dont shy away from anyone just because you have the fabulous Johnny Football on your roster.
3. The position needs a big upgrade over what we currently have pencilled in for 2015.
Let's not pretend we can count on JM for anything right now.
If you enjoy losing to the Ravens, Steelers and Bungles every year, then fuck it, grab a Guard and a DT and lots and lots of Wrs and put your faith in Johnny and Conner. They are spunky!
Z
Z, as others have said Mariota got exposed by Ohio State. I certainly didn't like what I saw either. MHO- is he's JFF II- without the outside baggage. Certainly not worth risking the three years of hell if he busts- It's going to take the Browns an RG III type deal to move up high enough to draft him. He is NOT a surefire, can't miss prospect- you can look up the scouting reports if you don't believe me. Neither is Winston for that matter- but if I had to roll the dice selling the ranch to move up- I'll put my money on Famous Jameis instead. He at least ran a pro style offense.
PS- and I'd take Cardale Jones over either of them. 12 Guage continues on his current pace- he's going to be the 2016 #1 overall- and no one will trade out of it either.
Yes indeed we're in quarterback hell once again. But barring a JFF miracle, I don't see any viable way out this year.
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The idea of getting the QB right is when the opportunity presents its self and all can see.
To me, that isn't Mariota. As by the day I see Winston being the #1 overall now that Tampa has let McCown go.
You're right, thus team does need to invest a top 10 pick into a QB eventually. This isn't the year for that.
The idea of getting the QB right is when the opportunity presents its self and all can see.
You're right, thus team does need to invest a top 10 pick into a QB eventually. This isn't the year for that.
As has been said... when all can see, then you have to have (or get) the #1 overall.
I agree Jameis is first off the board. I agree MM is not the one. But we also do not stand pat. Somewhere in this draft is enough promise to invest a pick.
You always have o be searching for your next QB.
If we're gonna have a small read option QB scampering out of the pocket for his life on every down i'd pretty much rather it be Manziel cause A) we already have him don't have to give up shit and
He's short but sturdier than Mariota, a lot sturdier. Mariota is faster but he will get Vick'ed out of the league in a few years if whatever team he goes to has him running consistently.I don't want to go all in on MM either, but not due to his running. I see nothing Manziel frantic in Mariota's running.
Who the hell knows when there will be a great Quarterback?
Exactly why you have to keep casting the net...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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