Why do Liberals...

Westside Steve

@browns149 said:

American politics and Jesus should be MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE

As our forefathers intended

Not exactly, that was nearly 100 years later by an activist Supreme Court.

WSS

calfoxwc

There is no "forcing" anything. but you're trying to say that a believer

politician should aways vote against his concience so he will be

voting like you want him to.

Which, is the inverse of saying he should always let his spirituality vote for him no matter what.

So, a Christian congress person should always vote for abortion and gay marriage to make you happy.

But if they do the opposite, then you are being "forced" to go by their beliefs. Got it.

LogicIsForSquares

I am saying that politicians shouldn't be legislating morality. Create jobs and leave moral conundrums up to individuals to resolve for themselves.

MLD Woody

Force people to follow your religious beliefs (no abortion, no gay marriage)

Or make both a choice for the individual to make. They can follow the religious ideal, or their own.

Seems like an easy choice...

Westside Steve

@mld-woody said:

Force people to follow your religious beliefs (no abortion, no gay marriage)

Or make both a choice for the individual to make. They can follow the religious ideal, or their own.

Seems like an easy choice...

So we should remove the illegal and/or immoral status of murder perjury theft and most of the seven deadly sins?

WSS

(and before you start squeaking opposition to homosexuality preceded Christianity and most likely marriage)

MLD Woody

Uhhh..... What?

Morality exists outside of religion. We know murder is wrong without a book telling us it is.

And yes, homosexuality is genetic. It's existed a very long time...

So what are you "squeaking" about?

Westside Steve

Morality is invented by society.

I would think that anyone as enamoured with science and nature as you are might understand that.

WSS

The Cysko Kid

@mld-woody said:

Force people to follow your religious beliefs (no abortion, no gay marriage)

Or make both a choice for the individual to make. They can follow the religious ideal, or their own.

Seems like an easy choice...

For what it's worth religion plays no part in my opposition of abortion

The Cysko Kid

If homosexuality were genetic it stands to reason it would have bred itself out long ago

@mld-woody said:

Uhhh..... What?

Morality exists outside of religion. We know murder is wrong without a book telling us it is.

And yes, homosexuality is genetic. It's existed a very long time...

So what are you "squeaking" about?

LogicIsForSquares

@the-cysko-kid said:
If homosexuality were genetic it stands to reason it would have bred itself out long ago

There are lots of genetic disorders and abnormalities that have not bred themselves out.

The Cysko Kid

Yeah but homosexuals don't breed with women typically, get it?

The Cysko Kid

So assuming the male would carry it (that's a big if, I guess) it would be difficult to pass on.

MLD Woody

I remember reading that they were thinking it was passed down by the mom. It was a mutation in her genes that made her more fertile, but resulted in a chance at homosexual offspring. I think that's what it was at least. I'll have to look it up.

But, are you saying you think it isn't genetic?

MLD Woody

This was the one study I was thinking of. It looks like there are a lot all pointing to different and sometimes similar genetic traits. Looks like it I a combination of a lot of them.

In 2004, Italian researchers conducted a study of about 4,600 people who were the relatives of 98 homosexual and 100 heterosexual men. Female relatives of the homosexual men tended to have more offspring than those of the heterosexual men. Female relatives of the homosexual men on their mother's side tended to have more offspring than those on the father's side. The researchers concluded that there was genetic material being passed down on the X chromosome which both promotes fertility in the mother and homosexuality in her male offspring. The connections discovered would explain about 20% of the cases studied, indicating that this is a highly significant but not the sole genetic factor determining sexual orientation.

LogicIsForSquares

@the-cysko-kid said:
So assuming the male would carry it (that's a big if, I guess) it would be difficult to pass on.

Woody pretty well covered it. Male pattern baldness has been found to be from the mother's genes and not the father's. So the genetic abnormality that would cause one to be gay could be passed down through the generations from the mothers.

DieHardBrownsFan

So it is a genetic defect.

LogicIsForSquares

@diehardbrownsfan said:
So it is a genetic defect.

Yup. Why wouldn't it be? I think even the most ardent pro-LGBT person could see that biologically being gay is not optimal as a species.

Westside Steve

I don't understand why the idea of environment is so foreign.

Do you not supposed that Ray in a setting only men would not sway a lot more adolescence toward homosexuality just for the pure human contact? Especially if they grew up with it being commonplace and not a taboo? Do you think homosexuality in prison has anything to do with the surroundings?

Neither side should allow an agenda to trump human nature.

WSS

LogicIsForSquares

@westside-steve said:

I don't understand why the idea of environment is so foreign.

Do you not supposed that Ray in a setting only men would not sway a lot more adolescence toward homosexuality just for the pure human contact? Especially if they grew up with it being commonplace and not a taboo? Do you think homosexuality in prison has anything to do with the surroundings?

Neither side should allow an agenda to trump human nature.

WSS

I am sure there are circumstances where a guy who otherwise would be into chicks would turn gay just for the human contact in prison. However, those are extreme circumstances and definitely not the norm. I guarantee there are way more guys in jail who don't do that. I say genetics and biology have much more to do with someone being gay or straight than their environment. My step brother is gay and there were five of us. He is the only one who turned out gay. He has a different mom and maybe she has a little sugar in the bloodlines.

Westside Steve

@logicisforsquares said:

I am sure there are circumstances where a guy who otherwise would be into chicks would turn gay just for the human contact in prison. However, those are extreme circumstances and definitely not the norm. I guarantee there are way more guys in jail who don't do that. I say genetics and biology have much more to do with someone being gay or straight than their environment. My step brother is gay and there were five of us. He is the only one who turned out gay.

~So you say.... ~

He has a different mom and maybe she has a little sugar in the bloodlines.

You're probably right, I just think that environment could play a lot bigger part then we pretend. I think the almost universal aversion to homosexuality is beaten into our heads since we are small. Other cultures are not nearly so puritan and don't let early sexual experiences be so traumatic.

WSS