Browns vs. Steeler LB corps
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The Steelers offensive advantage was in the passing game. (gee, imagine that give the respective QBs):
Steelers: 411 of 612 attempts. 67.2% compl. rate. 4997 yards. 33 TDs, 10 Ints. 8.2 ypa. 312.3 ypg. 103.2 rating 33 sacks
Browns: 274 of 502 54.6% compl. rate 3678 yards 12 TDs, 16 Ints. 7.3 ypa, 229.9 ypg. 72.8 rating 31 sacks
Quarterbacks matter.
(almost identical running game. Browns Somewhat better OL. Almost equal LB corps. D Line....jury out. I don't think I even need to go into the Defensive Backfield.....Browns are simply better).
Quarterbacks matter ....and yes, organizational stability.
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Hoyer was always bombing the ball deep, if shanahan really didn't want to scheme to the HB's that in your opinion are other worldly then he's a terrible offensive coordinator.
See, now I think we agree on something.
I just don't think either crowell or west are very proficient through the air.
Well, I just think we don't have a clue whether they were or not. You certainly don't know any better than we do if those guys could do a good job of catching out of the backfield.
If its neither of those things then its on hoyer for jot being very good and requiring the extra blocker a majority of the time.
Maybe some....Hoyer certainly went into the fetal position the latter half of the season.....but I think it is more Shanahan.
I also think its hilarious you are even trying to draw comparisons between two hbs vs one. I guess that means we should be able to just double bells production and then compare stats.
Well, this is why you lack credibility. If you notice, the W/C combo had almost the exact number of carries that Bell had. They shared the duties in the latter part of the year.......where Bell was the main carrier for the Steelers. The Steelers didn't have the RB by committee thing going that the Browns did.
But here are the stats for the two teams combined running game. For the Browns it combines Tate, West, Crowell, for the Steelers it combines Cheech and Chong, you know Bell and Blount. While each team had a few smattering of run plays run by QBs and others, nearly all the rushing game came from the 3 from Cleve. and the two from Pitt:
Browns combined stats (3 players) 425 carries 1613 yards 16 TDs, 3.6 ypc, 108.0 ypg
Steelers combined stats(2 players) 355 carries 1627 yards 10 TDs 4.1 ypc, 109.5 ypg.
As was noted earlier, Browns and Steelers had close to the same run game. 14 yards difference the entire year, 1.5 ypg. Steelers did have the better ypc....Browns had more rushing TDs.
Gipper that isn't the damn point. You are comparing two sets of legs, two entirely different players that stayed fresh throughout the season because they weren't carrying a full time load to ONE player. You don't see the flawed logic here? Bell out performed two players and slaughtered them in the pass game. Do you think west as the full time ball carrier would have put up the same numbers as bell? Or Crowell for that matter? If that's the case the browns have one hell of a bargaining chip this upcoming draft and you should expect one to be traded. -
We aren't arguing success of the running game. What was being argued is that bell is the best in the NFL. It seems you are the one chasing something no one was chasing.
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We aren't arguing success of the running game. What was being argued is that bell is the best in the NFL. It seems you are the one chasing something no one was chasing.
We aren't arguing success of the running game. What was being argued is that bell is the best in the NFL. It seems you are the one chasing something no one was chasing.
Do you read what is being written? thenew23 said that West/Crowell combined were nearly as good as Bell.
Do you forget that you moaned and groaned and whined and cried over that statement........yet I proved statiscially that thenew23 was essentially right.....that those 2 combined had nearly the same carries/yardage/more TD....
Again, and again and again, you throw a tantrum....and then deny. How old are you? Because you act like you are like 4.
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We aren't arguing success of the running game. What was being argued is that bell is the best in the NFL. It seems you are the one chasing something no one was chasing.
Do you read what is being written? thenew23 said that West/Crowell combined were nearly as good as Bell.
Do you forget that you moaned and groaned and whined and cried over that statement........yet I proved statiscially that thenew23 was essentially right.....that those 2 combined had nearly the same carries/yardage/more TD....
Again, and again and again, you throw a tantrum....and then deny. How old are you? Because you act like you are like 4.
Do you read what is being written? thenew23 said that West/Crowell combined were nearly as good as Bell.
Do you forget that you moaned and groaned and whined and cried over that statement........yet I proved statiscially that thenew23 was essentially right.....that those 2 combined had nearly the same carries/yardage/more TD....
Again, and again and again, you throw a tantrum....and then deny. How old are you? Because you act like you are like 4.
Yes Gipper and its a flawed fucking argument. Who compares the production of two players to the production of one? Bell is better than both backs combined. He's certainly better than either one on one.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Do you read what is being written? thenew23 said that West/Crowell combined were nearly as good as Bell.
Do you forget that you moaned and groaned and whined and cried over that statement........yet I proved statiscially that thenew23 was essentially right.....that those 2 combined had nearly the same carries/yardage/more TD....
Again, and again and again, you throw a tantrum....and then deny. How old are you? Because you act like you are like 4.
Yes Gipper and its a flawed fucking argument. Who compares the production of two players to the production of one? Bell is better than both backs combined. He's certainly better than either one on one.
Yes Gipper and its a flawed fucking argument. Who compares the production of two players to the production of one? Bell is better than both backs combined. He's certainly better than either one on one.
My original comment was about position groups... not players...
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Do you read what is being written? thenew23 said that West/Crowell combined were nearly as good as Bell.
Do you forget that you moaned and groaned and whined and cried over that statement........yet I proved statiscially that thenew23 was essentially right.....that those 2 combined had nearly the same carries/yardage/more TD....
Again, and again and again, you throw a tantrum....and then deny. How old are you? Because you act like you are like 4.
Yes Gipper and its a flawed fucking argument. Who compares the production of two players to the production of one? Bell is better than both backs combined. He's certainly better than either one on one.
Yes Gipper and its a flawed fucking argument. Who compares the production of two players to the production of one? Bell is better than both backs combined. He's certainly better than either one on one.
I compared the production of the Steelers running game to that of the Browns. Who does that? Anyone and everyone.
Sure, if you have a Bell or a DeMarcus Murray or AP......a big gun, you shoot it. But some teams have RB by committee.
If one is asked which one of these specific individual RBs is the best.....sure, it would be Bell at this point.
But if it is asked, which team has the better overall running game.....the answer is: its fairly even.
(again....just talking about the rushing....not the production in the pass game)
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@douche-nozzle said:
Vag, I'm sure you are aware of this but Gipper simply makes things up to see his own words in print.
Yea, I made up everyone of of those statistics just off the top of my head.
Did I also invent the statistics that showed the Steelers to be much more proficient at the passing game.
What? you only want to see facts that are in your favor and play ostrich when they are not?
He is a spin doctor of the highest degree and seldom can have a common sense conversation because he is bent on demonstrating things which simply aren't true.
Except of course what I said was absolutely true.
Last year he posted that Ben Tate was better than Bell and a whole bunch of other non-sense and I'd be willing to bet that he would still find a way to argue his stupidity.
Last year, at the beginning of the year, yes, I said that I felt that Ben Tate could be as good or better than Bell. That was an opinon based on the history of the two players. Bell had played just his rookie season where he gained like 800 yards rushing...Tate had been a veteran that had had two seasons in his history that had been the equal of Bell's rookie season. That was at the beginning of the year. Of course it was proven that Ben
Tate was NOT what we thought he was....and that Bell was more than even your bunch thought he would be.
He is fixated, like many of the members here, on proving to themselves that the Browns and the Steelers are essentially the same or that maybe the Browns are just a notch better.
Not fixated at all......if I were I would still be saying that Ben Tate was better, wouldn't I?
And, of course you omit the fact that clearly we all acknowledge where the Steelers were better....and which makes all the difference: the QB....plus the the DC.
On a specific, individual player basis, taking each individual, the Browns DO have more better players. The stats that Mufly posted from PFF say so.
If you want to argue with those, call PFF.
But, of course, the most important position on any football team, the QB, has the Steelers ahead hands down.
Why would you disparage your own QB and not acknowledge how superior he is to the Browns QB?
I mean, I know you are not very smart, but at least you should know that much.
You may as well go to a mental institution and talk to those people about getting their shit together.
You and he should have fun together then.
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Gipper Antonio brown isn't a special receiver and Hawkins is better after the catch? Seriously?Where is the ignorance and stupidity?
Oozing out of every pore.
If you want to go that route I've experienced that more here from browns fans than anyone else. Whether its talking about the browns or other teams. Thenew23 spewed some nonsense in this thread a few times for example.
You mistake stupidity for being bitch slapped by Browns fans.
Someone provides you a factoid that is not adoring of a Steeler player....and you insist that neutral, mathematical statistics are wrong....because they do not say what you want them to say.
West and Crowell are just as good as Bell? Neither have any sort of footing in reality.
Gipper Antonio brown isn't a special receiver and Hawkins is better after the catch? Seriously?
Actually...Hawkins AND Gabriel are WAY better after the catch than Brown is. And Brown is hardly a "phenom" after the catch...
Gabe was 4th in the league with 7.6 YAC avg and Hawkins was 13th with 6.4 YAC avg......Antonio Brown?....he's rated 44th with 4.8 yac avg....and those are hard numbers, not opinion or grades.....
So, once again....just homer bs from Vag and no facts Jack.......thats right......44th (what a phenom)
Lack of insight? Hilarious. Running backs and in most cases tight ends are safety valves for qbs experienced or inexperienced. It is completely different when talking about receivers. Bell would be good anywhere and Brown for the sake of argument is a phenom after the catch. Either would excel with every team in the league. Short dump offs = profit.
Im there on Bell. He's the best back of the group(both teams)....of course, it's like us saying last year that Josh Gordon was the best receiver....Bell just handed back 20% of next years production, so that'll pretty much nullify any extra he offers....
Yes Gipper and its a flawed fucking argument. Who compares the production of two players to the production of one? Bell is better than both backs combined. He's certainly better than either one on one.
These are all threads comparing "position groups"....I get that you dont get a lot of things, so read that back slowly.....
I compared the production of the Steelers running game to that of the Browns.
Yep....bottom line.....we have identical running #'s....almost exact......Steelers have a slightly higher avg gain and we have more touchdowns....so, the running game comparison is a complete wash....
The one notable difference is we use 2 backs and they used one.......so, you can say they have the better back.....but, also gotta consider all their eggs are in one basket....one injury or drug suspension ends if for the Stoolers...while we just go "next man up"...it'll be interesting to see where our running numbers are come week 4......
Plus....the same chance exists that one of our 2 backs has a break out year, just like Bell did last year......
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The one notable difference is we use 2 backs and they used one.
Actually, we used 3 backs....I included Ben Tate who was the primary runner for the first several games for the Browns
(also note....the Steelers numbers included Blounts numbers.)
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