Good article about figuring the draft prospects love for the game
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Although, I did accidently white bleep out part of my post....
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I'd draft a player without all the fancy glamour etc, stats from a big school....
than some goof with red flags with fantastic stats.... because they talk
a good talk, but then they go DUD in the pros.
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ha, didn't say PURELY nothin. But stats are not the end all/sole justifier of tiam's and tour's
arguments about all this.
And yes, I think I could back it up. I just have to work at getting into the Browns scout team biz,
and I'm already retired.
Tiam must be Tattoo to Tour's Mr. Rourke....
ha, didn't say PURELY nothin. But stats are not the end all/sole justifier of tiam's and tour's
arguments about all this.
And yes, I think I could back it up. I just have to work at getting into the Browns scout team biz,
and I'm already retired.
Tiam must be Tattoo to Tour's Mr. Rourke....
At least I'm a handsome midget.
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ha, didn't say PURELY nothin. But stats are not the end all/sole justifier of tiam's and tour's
arguments about all this.
And yes, I think I could back it up. I just have to work at getting into the Browns scout team biz,
and I'm already retired.
Tiam must be Tattoo to Tour's Mr. Rourke....
At least I'm a handsome midget.
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fixed.
yeah he put a gun in his mouth. sorry.
Awww. That's a shame. Wait, so im a dead midget? Never been called that before.
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cal,
I know I have never have said desire was not part of the equation... and I suspect you know that.
And I cannot remember tia making such an argument either... but suspect you know that as well.
But enough suspecting what you know.
Answer me this...
If you think desire, love of the game drives players to succeed, then won't their "stats" reflect that?
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without the heart, I wouldn't draft any player with that problem.
I'd draft a player without all the fancy glamour etc, stats from a big school....
then they go DUD in the pros.
Tour can keep his stats only foolishness, I'd draft far more on heart, love for the game.
without the heart, I wouldn't draft any player with that problem.
I'd draft a player without all the fancy glamour etc, stats from a big school....
then they go DUD in the pros.
I'd draft a player without all the fancy glamour etc, stats from a big school....
than some goof with red flags with fantastic stats.... because they talk
a good talk, but then they go DUD in the pros.
So, are we talking red flags(character) or are we talking love of the game(effort) or are we talking attitude(never say die?)....and how do we measure those in one sit down meeting and know which players are which?
I look at Winston and hear he has character issues, though it's very clear he has a tremendous love for the game and massive heart to win......
Then I look at JFF and hear about his love for football and his never say die - I can overcome anything - type of play....but there's that character thing again......(so, is it heart or character were looking for.....keep forgetting???)
Of course, you could grab a guy like Tebow, because he has huge heart AND great character......(screw the stats part)
I look at this draft and see guys like Green-Beckham and Dawson, who would both be top 10 picks, but dont see anyone here promoting them(and they have the monster stats)........so who IS getting promoted, based upon stats only, that we shouldn't be considering?
Who in this draft are the high character/heart/love for the game guys we should pick?......and who's not?
And since you chose to go on the attack with Tour and Tia(both guys who seem to have a grip on the talent and how to rate it), Id be curious to know what low character- no heart - trouble makers are they promoting due only to stats?....
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You're suspect, alright...
But seriously, not necessarily. Depends on the players around him, the level of
competition, scheme, the players responsibilities. There have been a whole lot
of qbs who had great stats in college who never made it in the NFL. Back in the day,
there was Jack Lambert, who did. And Gerald Tinker, who was a world class speedster
star football player, who didn't, and ended up with a knee injury that killed his career.
The qb was amazing, whatever his name was. I think he was signed as a ufa, but never
made it.
Then again, every year, guys with meager stats end up doing great in the pros.
Small school guys, ufa's, guys who didn't have great stats, but played behind great
players in college and didn't get to show it. Guys who played in systems that didn't showcase
their versatility skills...
Stats are fine, but they are only a smaller part of any eval I would make, that's all.
Take Phil Savage, the super stats guy. Brady Quinn had GREAT stats. That's what I'm talkin about.
I knew Gary Pinkel - he was the tight end at Kent, and was actually Jack Lambert's roommate.
Pinkel was inducted into the Kent State Varsity "K" Hall of Fame in 1997. Never made it to the pros.
His stats were terrific.
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You're suspect, alright...
But seriously, not necessarily. Depends on the players around him, the level of
competition, scheme, the players responsibilities. There have been a whole lot
of qbs who had great stats in college who never made it in the NFL. Back in the day,
there was Jack Lambert, who did. And Gerald Tinker, who was a world class speedster
star football player, who didn't, and ended up with a knee injury that killed his career.
The qb was amazing, whatever his name was. I think he was signed as a ufa, but never
made it.
Then again, every year, guys with meager stats end up doing great in the pros.
Small school guys, ufa's, guys who didn't have great stats, but played behind great
players in college and didn't get to show it. Guys who played in systems that didn't showcase
their versatility skills...
Stats are fine, but they are only a smaller part of any eval I would make, that's all.
Take Phil Savage, the super stats guy. Brady Quinn had GREAT stats. That's what I'm talkin about.
I knew Gary Pinkel - he was the tight end at Kent, and was actually Jack Lambert's roommate.
Pinkel was inducted into the Kent State Varsity "K" Hall of Fame in 1997. Never made it to the pros.
His stats were terrific.
Stats are fine, but they are only a smaller part of any eval I would make, that's all.
So, the larger part is heart & character?....
How do you measure that with 400 hopefuls waiting to get drafted????.....especially when you're not using stats to rate them?
Do you have a couple examples of some "no stats -big heart" guys that we should be drafting this year?....and, if you do(Im hoping), can you tell me how that was determined?
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Mud, we are talking everything. I just ran afoul of Tour and his stats once, that's all.
I wouldn't bring it up now, but Tour and Tiam gave me some crap, so I'm simply
responding with some negative attention back, okie dokie?
I never said "no" to stats. But using them to make yourself look like
your opinions are superior is nonsense.
And nobody is talking about "no stats". That's dumb. My beef is usiing them
as the main determinator, when red flags render those stats useless.
when a terrific player in college ends up a dud in the pros. Mike Junkin
had outstanding stats. Ryan Leaf had outstanding stats.
Let's put it in historical perspective. Ryan Leaf, runner up for the Heisman, If I remember
correctly. The other qb contending for the first pick....Peyton Manning.
The team that went with character won the day. The team that was wowed by the stats...
blew it badly. That's simply my philosophy about it all.
Leaf had the stronger arm, yada yada jibber jabber. I would never have drafted him, forget the freakin
stats. That's how I see Winston - a big risk outside of the stats.
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Mud, we are talking everything. I just ran afoul of Tour and his stats once, that's all.
I wouldn't bring it up now, but Tour and Tiam gave me some crap, so I'm simply
responding with some negative attention back, okie dokie?
I never said "no" to stats. But using them to make yourself look like
your opinions are superior is nonsense.
And nobody is talking about "no stats". That's dumb. My beef is usiing them
as the main determinator, when red flags render those stats useless.
when a terrific player in college ends up a dud in the pros. Mike Junkin
had outstanding stats. Ryan Leaf had outstanding stats.
Let's put it in historical perspective. Ryan Leaf, runner up for the Heisman, If I remember
correctly. The other qb contending for the first pick....Peyton Manning.
The team that went with character won the day. The team that was wowed by the stats...
blew it badly. That's simply my philosophy about it all.
Leaf had the stronger arm, yada yada jibber jabber. I would never have drafted him, forget the freakin
stats. That's how I see Winston - a big risk outside of the stats.
Mud, we are talking everything. I just ran afoul of Tour and his stats once, that's all.
I wouldn't bring it up now, but Tour and Tiam gave me some crap, so I'm simply
responding with some negative attention back, okie dokie?
I never said "no" to stats. But using them to make yourself look like
your opinions are superior is nonsense.
And nobody is talking about "no stats". That's dumb. My beef is usiing them
as the main determinator, when red flags render those stats useless.
when a terrific player in college ends up a dud in the pros. Mike Junkin
had outstanding stats.
So supporting my opinion with the basis for my opinion is a bad thing? And here I thought that's what forums were all about...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Not trying to argue, but it can get confusing between character and heart....still trying to work that out...
when I look at Winston vs Mariota(for example)....I see 2 guys, both with great stats...
Then I see Winston as the guy with the huge heart, fire to win and love for the game....(and character questions)
While I see Mariota as the good character, no red flag guy...but with little heart and no obvious love for the game. Just kinda ho hum.
So, then it gets hard...cause do you choose character or heart??? (lots of good character-huge heart guys fail too....like Tebow for example)..
I gotta say I dont have the answer and base my opinions on each separate scenario....
Examples:....
Id avoid Paul Dawson or Green-Beckham at all costs, because their red flags are HUGE....and..
Id avoid Mariota simply because I feel he "doesn't" have a tremendous love of the game or the huge heart needed to be a leader and will his team to victory....
But, Id take Winston, because I think he has a huge heart, loves the game and the character things(to me) are typical college kid stuff and nothing that really concerns me going forward(drugs or criminal tendencies would scare me more)....
Im avoiding other top raters like Armstead(no heart) and Gregory(stupid & drugs) for similar reasons....
In the end....I think "play like a Brown" is more about heart and talent, than it is character......so, Browns would love a high effort/low character guy like Ray Lewis, but would probably hate a good character/low effort guy like Jay Cutler(for example)....
Gotta say....they did keep Johnny and dump Hoyer.....and Hoyer had him with the character/love of the game(and town) thing(by a mile).....
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lol. It's a balance of all things. Mariotta plays like he has fire, but his temperament says otherwise.
Winston is amazing- and very, very smart. Smart enough to grow up and make a franchise proud ?
We'll have to wait and see.
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lol. It's a balance of all things. Mariotta plays like he has fire, but his temperament says otherwise.
Winston is amazing- and very, very smart. Smart enough to grow up and make a franchise proud ?
We'll have to wait and see.
lol. It's a balance of all things. Mariotta plays like he has fire, but his temperament says otherwise.
Winston is amazing- and very, very smart. Smart enough to grow up and make a franchise proud ?
We'll have to wait and see.
Its tough......thats why I always say that Im glad NOT to be Ray Farmer...ha!
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lol. It's a balance of all things. Mariotta plays like he has fire, but his temperament says otherwise.
Winston is amazing- and very, very smart. Smart enough to grow up and make a franchise proud ?
We'll have to wait and see.
Its tough......thats why I always say that Im glad NOT to be Ray Farmer...ha!
Its tough......thats why I always say that Im glad NOT to be Ray Farmer...ha!
Seriously? That has to be such a sweet job, I'd love to be doing that.
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Seriously? That has to be such a sweet job, I'd love to be doing that.
I would too(at least the $ and scouting part).....but I would hate to post a great draft and still spend everyday being shredded by a bunch of no nothings second guessing my every step.....my skin is just too thin for that type of job I guess.....
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Mud, we are talking everything. I just ran afoul of Tour and his stats once, that's all.
I wouldn't bring it up now, but Tour and Tiam gave me some crap, so I'm simply
responding with some negative attention back, okie dokie?
I never said "no" to stats. But using them to make yourself look like
your opinions are superior is nonsense.
And nobody is talking about "no stats". That's dumb. My beef is usiing them
as the main determinator, when red flags render those stats useless.
when a terrific player in college ends up a dud in the pros. Mike Junkin
had outstanding stats.
So supporting my opinion with the basis for my opinion is a bad thing? And here I thought that's what forums were all about...
So supporting my opinion with the basis for my opinion is a bad thing? And here I thought that's what forums were all about...
Oh yeah, when you had a minute I've been meaning to tell you that you've been fucking up the whole time with this forum thing.
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Not trying to argue, but it can get confusing between character and heart....still trying to work that out...
when I look at Winston vs Mariota(for example)....I see 2 guys, both with great stats...
Then I see Winston as the guy with the huge heart, fire to win and love for the game....(and character questions)
While I see Mariota as the good character, no red flag guy...but with little heart and no obvious love for the game. Just kinda ho hum.
So, then it gets hard...cause do you choose character or heart??? (lots of good character-huge heart guys fail too....like Tebow for example)..
I gotta say I dont have the answer and base my opinions on each separate scenario....
Examples:....
Id avoid Paul Dawson or Green-Beckham at all costs, because their red flags are HUGE....and..
Id avoid Mariota simply because I feel he "doesn't" have a tremendous love of the game or the huge heart needed to be a leader and will his team to victory....
But, Id take Winston, because I think he has a huge heart, loves the game and the character things(to me) are typical college kid stuff and nothing that really concerns me going forward(drugs or criminal tendencies would scare me more)....
Im avoiding other top raters like Armstead(no heart) and Gregory(stupid & drugs) for similar reasons....
In the end....I think "play like a Brown" is more about heart and talent, than it is character......so, Browns would love a high effort/low character guy like Ray Lewis, but would probably hate a good character/low effort guy like Jay Cutler(for example)....
Gotta say....they did keep Johnny and dump Hoyer.....and Hoyer had him with the character/love of the game(and town) thing(by a mile).....
In the end....I think "play like a Brown" is more about heart and talent, than it is character.....
But you would not take D G-B? A bit of a paradox there methinks.
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But you would not take D G-B? A bit of a paradox there methinks.
Just too close to home with JG and the fact that, at that part of the draft, there are too many other players Id rather have....
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