Good article about figuring the draft prospects love for the game
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Mud, we are talking everything. I just ran afoul of Tour and his stats once, that's all.
I wouldn't bring it up now, but Tour and Tiam gave me some crap, so I'm simply
responding with some negative attention back, okie dokie?
I never said "no" to stats. But using them to make yourself look like
your opinions are superior is nonsense.
And nobody is talking about "no stats". That's dumb. My beef is usiing them
as the main determinator, when red flags render those stats useless.
when a terrific player in college ends up a dud in the pros. Mike Junkin
had outstanding stats. Ryan Leaf had outstanding stats.
Let's put it in historical perspective. Ryan Leaf, runner up for the Heisman, If I remember
correctly. The other qb contending for the first pick....Peyton Manning.
The team that went with character won the day. The team that was wowed by the stats...
blew it badly. That's simply my philosophy about it all.
Leaf had the stronger arm, yada yada jibber jabber. I would never have drafted him, forget the freakin
stats. That's how I see Winston - a big risk outside of the stats.
Mud, we are talking everything. I just ran afoul of Tour and his stats once, that's all.
I wouldn't bring it up now, but Tour and Tiam gave me some crap, so I'm simply
responding with some negative attention back, okie dokie?
I never said "no" to stats. But using them to make yourself look like
your opinions are superior is nonsense.
And nobody is talking about "no stats". That's dumb. My beef is usiing them
as the main determinator, when red flags render those stats useless.
when a terrific player in college ends up a dud in the pros. Mike Junkin
had outstanding stats.
So supporting my opinion with the basis for my opinion is a bad thing? And here I thought that's what forums were all about...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Not trying to argue, but it can get confusing between character and heart....still trying to work that out...
when I look at Winston vs Mariota(for example)....I see 2 guys, both with great stats...
Then I see Winston as the guy with the huge heart, fire to win and love for the game....(and character questions)
While I see Mariota as the good character, no red flag guy...but with little heart and no obvious love for the game. Just kinda ho hum.
So, then it gets hard...cause do you choose character or heart??? (lots of good character-huge heart guys fail too....like Tebow for example)..
I gotta say I dont have the answer and base my opinions on each separate scenario....
Examples:....
Id avoid Paul Dawson or Green-Beckham at all costs, because their red flags are HUGE....and..
Id avoid Mariota simply because I feel he "doesn't" have a tremendous love of the game or the huge heart needed to be a leader and will his team to victory....
But, Id take Winston, because I think he has a huge heart, loves the game and the character things(to me) are typical college kid stuff and nothing that really concerns me going forward(drugs or criminal tendencies would scare me more)....
Im avoiding other top raters like Armstead(no heart) and Gregory(stupid & drugs) for similar reasons....
In the end....I think "play like a Brown" is more about heart and talent, than it is character......so, Browns would love a high effort/low character guy like Ray Lewis, but would probably hate a good character/low effort guy like Jay Cutler(for example)....
Gotta say....they did keep Johnny and dump Hoyer.....and Hoyer had him with the character/love of the game(and town) thing(by a mile).....
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lol. It's a balance of all things. Mariotta plays like he has fire, but his temperament says otherwise.
Winston is amazing- and very, very smart. Smart enough to grow up and make a franchise proud ?
We'll have to wait and see.
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lol. It's a balance of all things. Mariotta plays like he has fire, but his temperament says otherwise.
Winston is amazing- and very, very smart. Smart enough to grow up and make a franchise proud ?
We'll have to wait and see.
lol. It's a balance of all things. Mariotta plays like he has fire, but his temperament says otherwise.
Winston is amazing- and very, very smart. Smart enough to grow up and make a franchise proud ?
We'll have to wait and see.
Its tough......thats why I always say that Im glad NOT to be Ray Farmer...ha!
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lol. It's a balance of all things. Mariotta plays like he has fire, but his temperament says otherwise.
Winston is amazing- and very, very smart. Smart enough to grow up and make a franchise proud ?
We'll have to wait and see.
Its tough......thats why I always say that Im glad NOT to be Ray Farmer...ha!
Its tough......thats why I always say that Im glad NOT to be Ray Farmer...ha!
Seriously? That has to be such a sweet job, I'd love to be doing that.
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Seriously? That has to be such a sweet job, I'd love to be doing that.
I would too(at least the $ and scouting part).....but I would hate to post a great draft and still spend everyday being shredded by a bunch of no nothings second guessing my every step.....my skin is just too thin for that type of job I guess.....
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Mud, we are talking everything. I just ran afoul of Tour and his stats once, that's all.
I wouldn't bring it up now, but Tour and Tiam gave me some crap, so I'm simply
responding with some negative attention back, okie dokie?
I never said "no" to stats. But using them to make yourself look like
your opinions are superior is nonsense.
And nobody is talking about "no stats". That's dumb. My beef is usiing them
as the main determinator, when red flags render those stats useless.
when a terrific player in college ends up a dud in the pros. Mike Junkin
had outstanding stats.
So supporting my opinion with the basis for my opinion is a bad thing? And here I thought that's what forums were all about...
So supporting my opinion with the basis for my opinion is a bad thing? And here I thought that's what forums were all about...
Oh yeah, when you had a minute I've been meaning to tell you that you've been fucking up the whole time with this forum thing.
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Not trying to argue, but it can get confusing between character and heart....still trying to work that out...
when I look at Winston vs Mariota(for example)....I see 2 guys, both with great stats...
Then I see Winston as the guy with the huge heart, fire to win and love for the game....(and character questions)
While I see Mariota as the good character, no red flag guy...but with little heart and no obvious love for the game. Just kinda ho hum.
So, then it gets hard...cause do you choose character or heart??? (lots of good character-huge heart guys fail too....like Tebow for example)..
I gotta say I dont have the answer and base my opinions on each separate scenario....
Examples:....
Id avoid Paul Dawson or Green-Beckham at all costs, because their red flags are HUGE....and..
Id avoid Mariota simply because I feel he "doesn't" have a tremendous love of the game or the huge heart needed to be a leader and will his team to victory....
But, Id take Winston, because I think he has a huge heart, loves the game and the character things(to me) are typical college kid stuff and nothing that really concerns me going forward(drugs or criminal tendencies would scare me more)....
Im avoiding other top raters like Armstead(no heart) and Gregory(stupid & drugs) for similar reasons....
In the end....I think "play like a Brown" is more about heart and talent, than it is character......so, Browns would love a high effort/low character guy like Ray Lewis, but would probably hate a good character/low effort guy like Jay Cutler(for example)....
Gotta say....they did keep Johnny and dump Hoyer.....and Hoyer had him with the character/love of the game(and town) thing(by a mile).....
In the end....I think "play like a Brown" is more about heart and talent, than it is character.....
But you would not take D G-B? A bit of a paradox there methinks.
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But you would not take D G-B? A bit of a paradox there methinks.
Just too close to home with JG and the fact that, at that part of the draft, there are too many other players Id rather have....
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But you would not take D G-B? A bit of a paradox there methinks.
Just too close to home with JG and the fact that, at that part of the draft, there are too many other players Id rather have....
Just too close to home with JG and the fact that, at that part of the draft, there are too many other players Id rather have....
Very good example with JG. JG's history of putting football after partying wasn't any secret; and the trend didn't lie to us unfortunately.
When the Browns got their record to 6-3 last year - all I could think of was wait until we get Josh Gordon back on the field. To see a guy that didn't finish routes, adjust to coverages or look anything close to the guy we saw in 2013 - was an epic disappointment. If anything, our passing game got worse. That's probably why a lot of people don't share my intrigue for a big WR early on in this draft. I can tell you 1 big WR I don't want coming here is Green-Beckham.
Character and heart are separate entities; but I think it's important to dig deep enough in the research to find both. By that I mean, research the work ethics and what types of kids these guys have been more than just their last 2-3 years of college.
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But you would not take D G-B? A bit of a paradox there methinks.
Just too close to home with JG and the fact that, at that part of the draft, there are too many other players Id rather have....
Just too close to home with JG and the fact that, at that part of the draft, there are too many other players Id rather have....
Plus just because you say "more than character" does not mean character is completely ignored.
lol. It's a balance of all things. Mariotta plays like he has fire, but his temperament says otherwise.
Winston is amazing- and very, very smart. Smart enough to grow up and make a franchise proud ?
We'll have to wait and see.
Back to football for me as well...
Balance? Absolutely... we are bound to give different weight to different factors in the abstract. And on top of that we are going to see different things in individual cases.
In Winston I see overwhelming talent and leader qualities. Certainly enough to overcome any character reluctance I might have.
In MM I have not seen the fire on the field... nor have I seen joy. And that troubles me. Combined with his off-field persona (as most recently exhibited in Gruden School), I see a kid who is still not comfortable in his skin. Were I scouting him (and I just thought of this), then I'd spend time with his family. I'd want to be sure he has been playing purely because it was what he has wanted to do, and not because it was expected of him by Dad, peers, whomever...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Just too close to home with JG and the fact that, at that part of the draft, there are too many other players Id rather have....
Plus just because you say "more than character" does not mean character is completely ignored.
lol. It's a balance of all things. Mariotta plays like he has fire, but his temperament says otherwise.
Winston is amazing- and very, very smart. Smart enough to grow up and make a franchise proud ?
We'll have to wait and see.
Back to football for me as well...
Balance? Absolutely... we are bound to give different weight to different factors in the abstract. And on top of that we are going to see different things in individual cases.
In Winston I see overwhelming talent and leader qualities. Certainly enough to overcome any character reluctance I might have.
In MM I have not seen the fire on the field... nor have I seen joy. And that troubles me. Combined with his off-field persona (as most recently exhibited in Gruden School), I see a kid who is still not comfortable in his skin. Were I scouting him (and I just thought of this), then I'd spend time with his family. I'd want to be sure he has been playing purely because it was what he has wanted to do, and not because it was expected of him by Dad, peers, whomever...
.
In Winston I see overwhelming talent and leader qualities. Certainly enough to overcome any character reluctance I might have.
In MM I have not seen the fire on the field... nor have I seen joy. And that troubles me. (as most recently exhibited in Gruden School)
Im with you 100%....
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Are we thinking MM is the second coming of Jay Cutler?
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people see different things. to one person a mild mannered kid might come off as being passive or having no fire. to others he might come off as the perfect face for a franchise.
some people see a fiery talented leader. to others they might see a scumbag who screams out profanities in a public setting in school towards women with women present, which would have gotten most of us back in the day beaten to with in an inch of their lives from their mother or father.
no thanks.
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Mariota seems like a Joe Flacco type; doesn't lead with fire but doesn't get rattled easily, either. i would be shocked if either Mariota or Winston somehow landed on the Browns. Hopefully JFF can get his head in the game and prove that he can "wreck this league". If he can't, there's always Thad "the Champ" Lewis.
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people see different things. to one person a mild mannered kid might come off as being passive or having no fire. to others he might come off as the perfect face for a franchise.
some people see a fiery talented leader. to others they might see a scumbag who screams out profanities in a public setting in school towards women with women present, which would have gotten most of us back in the day beaten to with in an inch of their lives from their mother or father.
no thanks.
people see different things. to one person a mild mannered kid might come off as being passive or having no fire. to others he might come off as the perfect face for a franchise.
some people see a fiery talented leader. to others they might see a scumbag who screams out profanities in a public setting in school towards women with women present, which would have gotten most of us back in the day beaten to with in an inch of their lives from their mother or father.
no thanks.
You're clearly speaking in generalities here and not referencing any two players specifically.
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people see different things. to one person a mild mannered kid might come off as being passive or having no fire. to others he might come off as the perfect face for a franchise.
some people see a fiery talented leader. to others they might see a scumbag who screams out profanities in a public setting in school towards women with women present, which would have gotten most of us back in the day beaten to with in an inch of their lives from their mother or father.
no thanks.
You're clearly speaking in generalities here and not referencing any two players specifically.
You're clearly speaking in generalities here and not referencing any two players specifically.
tebow and manziel.
wink.
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