Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Here's a bit of a recap from the Scrimmage last night :
JM getting some support from his Team mates, McCown was very happy for him.
Here's a bit of a recap from the Scrimmage last night :
JM getting some support from his Team mates, McCown was very happy for him.
Thanks for sharing that!
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I don't mind being called a fanboy. I don't mind admitting Johnny was terrible last year. Hell, I had my doubts he would be back ths year, I'm glad he is. I still have doubts he will be as good in the NFL as I first thought he would be, but I'm happy he's looking better.
It's just moronic to use his pro failure to date to marginalize his college career. However you specify 50/50 balls, he threw less of them than most, and was an incredible college player. Just be honest about it. I'm honest about the fact that his college career now means nothing and he has lots of work to do just to stay on the team.
It's just moronic to use his pro failure to date to marginalize his college career.
I think pretty much everyone here can cite the things that JM did in college that made him look good.
The problem is... that some of the things that made him successful in college simply don't transfer well to the NFL.
And therein lies the connection...
His rookie year JM's college game did not translate well and he did not adapt/ improve his game to be successful.
This year? Signs are there, but it's early...
So fumbling a ball (and then scoring) means his decision making sucks? News to me.
Yes, his decision making sucked on that play. That play was Exhibit A in the case against Manziel because he missed his read and thus a wide open receiver (2nd from the top) early on the slant. Instead he put the ball in jeopardy by beginning a scramble when there was no pressure.
Exciting? Sure... but not exemplary. I'm surprised you don't see that.
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I know. The point was he is taking a shot at Hoyer. Otherwise that comment is just out of left field.
I know. The point was he is taking a shot at Hoyer. Otherwise that comment is just out of left field.
Miles of difference between "not helping" and "sabotage".
Also wonder what the relative timing of that comment and "rehab".
Ok. But you cited it under "poor decision making." You mislabeled.
I could just as easily respond "yes I saw a great play because the kid made something out of nothing." If we could get a list of what counts as "actual quarterbacking," that'd be great, because apparently scrambling against the best front 7 in the country and throwing a TD against the best defense in the country doesn't.
Then I'll take up the banner (as I did above)... It was poor decision making... times two.
So Mack was the only starter out? I don't know why it's so hard to get to the bottom of this. Did Johnny play with JT, Bito, Hawk, Gabriel, etc. or not?
Bowe was also out due to a tweeked hammie...
I know JM took a couple snaps behind our #1 line, but not sure which WRs were in.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I know. The point was he is taking a shot at Hoyer. Otherwise that comment is just out of left field.
Miles of difference between "not helping" and "sabotage".
Also wonder what the relative timing of that comment and "rehab".
Ok. But you cited it under "poor decision making." You mislabeled.
I could just as easily respond "yes I saw a great play because the kid made something out of nothing." If we could get a list of what counts as "actual quarterbacking," that'd be great, because apparently scrambling against the best front 7 in the country and throwing a TD against the best defense in the country doesn't.
Then I'll take up the banner (as I did above)... It was poor decision making... times two.
So Mack was the only starter out? I don't know why it's so hard to get to the bottom of this. Did Johnny play with JT, Bito, Hawk, Gabriel, etc. or not?
Bowe was also out due to a tweeked hammie...
I know JM took a couple snaps behind our #1 line, but not sure which WRs were in.
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Truly neither QB played with the 1's. Mack never saw 11on 11's. Mack played up to 7 on 7's. Fine with me. Both QB's played well and that's along time coming out of me. OL and backs out of sync, No screens, No Mack at C may have helped or a better D front maybe to blame, either way good for us. Orchard got credit for sack but Shelton forced it, big time. Good for both doing their jobs they were brought in here to do. Don't ask M. Moore if Danny plays sideline to sidelines. (my 40 time my azz)
Truly neither QB played with the 1's. Mack never saw 11on 11's. Mack played up to 7 on 7's. Fine with me. Both QB's played well and that's along time coming out of me. OL and backs out of sync, No screens, No Mack at C may have helped or a better D front maybe to blame, either way good for us. Orchard got credit for sack but Shelton forced it, big time. Good for both doing their jobs they were brought in here to do. Don't ask M. Moore if Danny plays sideline to sidelines. (my 40 time my azz)
Honestly War I was just entering my thoughts on the scrimmage while 2 or 3 other reply's came in and I never knew you and Tia had a conversation going on so throw this response out. sorry to both.
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The most refreshing thing for me watching Manziel is he (in just a scrimmage yes) look TONS better in the pocket. Still not there yet sure, but it's clear the guy has been working on it which was refreshing to see.
Also, holy crap on that naked bootleg where McCown out ran whoever that was and threw the laser beam TD. Even in a flag football league game that was a damn nice play.
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Nice words from Joe Thomas about Johnny.....( a good sign).....echoing my thoughts on earning that "trust from his teammates"....
Johnny Manziel has a ways to go before snatching the starting gig away from Josh McCown, but Manziel has won over one large critic: Joe Thomas.
"He's really proved to a lot of people that this is important to him and he's ready to be an NFL starting quarterback,'' the offensive tackle said Friday, via the Northeast Ohio Media Group. "Playing well in the scrimmage tonight and looking like an NFL quarterback is another good step in the direction that he wants to go. He's just earning that trust of his teammates that he's going to need if he wants to be that starter. He impressed a lot of people out here tonight.''
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Agree... but was it "informed"?
I kind of put it together with what he was saying in the interview (I believe the one during the scrimmage) about how well the QB room is going in that they are competitive, but push each other to ALL get better. I still have it recorded so I may have to find that spot for the exact wording he used. I know it was far different from the "sabotage" statement. That's a very strong word indeed and I assume he knew exactly what he was using it for.
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The Farmer quote kinda knocked me outta my chair.
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I'm up to the second Cincinnati game from last year so I'm going to be looking closely at Johnny. I really see a lot of parallels between this game and the A&M-Alabama game from last year. The game ended in a 59-0 loss for my Ags. Now, A&M was undoubtedly not as good of a team as Alabama last year, but ask yourself a question, were they 59 points worse? Were they shutout-level worse? No, not at all. In games like these, usually things start out badly and then just snowball to the point where the team doesn't really feel like playing anymore. So in addition to struggling early, they also don't score or defend well late.
We get off to an early 10-0 deficit in the first quarter. Dalton throws a ball that goes right through the hands of Joe Haden in the endzone. There's a missed opportunity.
Offense goes three and out twice. Is it super ugly? I would say no, but nevertheless, three and outs are never good.
Third drive, Johnny makes the incorrect read of the defensive end on a zone read play. He should have given the ball to Crowell but instead keeps it where the DE immediately creams him for about a 6 yard loss. Another missed opportunity or at a minimum, a terrible play. So we get a third and medium and Johnny actually steps up in the pocket (maybe more of a mini-scramble if you want to get technical) and delivers a nice ball to a wide open Hawkins for the first down plus about 10. Hawkins drops it. Another missed opportunity. We punt.
Bengals get the ball back and a stupid penalty on the punt coverage gives them great field position. We force them into 3rd and medium and Hill converts on a backbreaking draw. Then he has a longish run for a touchdown. 17-zip right off the jump. Oh and just for kicks, Haden is hurt.
OK so the offense is back out. First down, completed screen pass for a decent gain. Called back because Seymour was downfield ineligibly. We got our first first down on a penalty but had to punt again.
Robertson then picks off Dalton. Great play. The game wasn't over yet. But Johnny throws a pick in the endzone on a pretty decent scramble then we go three and out to start the second half. That's pretty much the ball game there.
I started a thread the other day on our overall sloppiness on the little things as a team last year. Well when you go to a new quarterback, any improvements you've made on the sloppiness kinda gets reset. You have to make and improve on some of the same mistakes all over again. It's annoying, but it's life. What's more is that Cincinnati does at the end of the day have a pretty salty defense. You don't want your rookie quarterback cutting his teeth on a team like this. And late in the season to boot!
Personally, if I were Pettine, I would have given Johnny the nod as soon as I heard Vontae Davis would be out for the Indianapolis game. You're playing at home against a pretty BAD defense whose number 1 corner is out? Those are much more fertile conditions for a rookie QB than a perennial playoff team with a good defense coming to town to avenge a bad loss only weeks before. Our OL did not have a good game (only Seymour's second start) and our receivers made some critical drops, but certainly Johnny is culpable for the result here. He missed that zone read, he had the ball extended the wrong direction on what was supposed to be a handoff to West, he threw high balls to Dray and Gordon. He threw the two picks in the first half. Etc.
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The most refreshing thing for me watching Manziel is he (in just a scrimmage yes) look TONS better in the pocket. Still not there yet sure, but it's clear the guy has been working on it which was refreshing to see.
Also, holy crap on that naked bootleg where McCown out ran whoever that was and threw the laser beam TD. Even in a flag football league game that was a damn nice play.
Also, holy crap on that naked bootleg where McCown out ran whoever that was and threw the laser beam TD. Even in a flag football league game that was a damn nice play.
I believe that was Kruger he outran.
Play shocked me as well. I did not know that was part of McCown's game. Added shock was that the old vet actually looked quick.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Agree... but was it "informed"?
I kind of put it together with what he was saying in the interview (I believe the one during the scrimmage) about how well the QB room is going in that they are competitive, but push each other to ALL get better. I still have it recorded so I may have to find that spot for the exact wording he used. I know it was far different from the "sabotage" statement. That's a very strong word indeed and I assume he knew exactly what he was using it for.
I kind of put it together with what he was saying in the interview (I believe the one during the scrimmage) about how well the QB room is going in that they are competitive, but push each other to ALL get better. I still have it recorded so I may have to find that spot for the exact wording he used. I know it was far different from the "sabotage" statement. That's a very strong word indeed and I assume he knew exactly what he was using it for.
To the point of my question...
I would be surprised if Farmer has any first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the QB room.
The only person in both the 2014 and 2015 QB room with the objectivity to compare them would be Connor Shaw.
So unless Shaw is Farmer's source, and I doubt he is, then my question remains.
I also started wondering last night whether the circumstances around the release of Tate were finding their way into the quote that war posted. Maybe you can look for any sign of this in the context of your replay.
Regardless, the statement says more about Farmer than it does either or both former Browns. If I were Haslam I would explain that to him.
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Also, holy crap on that naked bootleg where McCown out ran whoever that was and threw the laser beam TD. Even in a flag football league game that was a damn nice play.
I believe that was Kruger he outran.
Play shocked me as well. I did not know that was part of McCown's game. Added shock was that the old vet actually looked quick.
I believe that was Kruger he outran.
Play shocked me as well. I did not know that was part of McCown's game. Added shock was that the old vet actually looked quick.
I haven't really seen him play very much at all in recent years outside of highlights here and there. He used to be really quick and agile so it's good to see he hasn't lost very much of that.
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Also, holy crap on that naked bootleg where McCown out ran whoever that was and threw the laser beam TD. Even in a flag football league game that was a damn nice play.
I believe that was Kruger he outran.
Play shocked me as well. I did not know that was part of McCown's game. Added shock was that the old vet actually looked quick.
I believe that was Kruger he outran.
Play shocked me as well. I did not know that was part of McCown's game. Added shock was that the old vet actually looked quick.
yep....it was Kruger......really enjoyed that one......McCown showed good speed scrambling and lots of zip on that pass......twas nice!
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I kind of put it together with what he was saying in the interview (I believe the one during the scrimmage) about how well the QB room is going in that they are competitive, but push each other to ALL get better. I still have it recorded so I may have to find that spot for the exact wording he used. I know it was far different from the "sabotage" statement. That's a very strong word indeed and I assume he knew exactly what he was using it for.
To the point of my question...
I would be surprised if Farmer has any first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the QB room.
The only person in both the 2014 and 2015 QB room with the objectivity to compare them would be Connor Shaw.
So unless Shaw is Farmer's source, and I doubt he is, then my question remains.
I also started wondering last night whether the circumstances around the release of Tate were finding their way into the quote that war posted. Maybe you can look for any sign of this in the context of your replay.
Regardless, the statement says more about Farmer than it does either or both former Browns. If I were Haslam I would explain that to him.
To the point of my question...
I would be surprised if Farmer has any first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the QB room.
The only person in both the 2014 and 2015 QB room with the objectivity to compare them would be Connor Shaw.
So unless Shaw is Farmer's source, and I doubt he is, then my question remains.
I also started wondering last night whether the circumstances around the release of Tate were finding their way into the quote that war posted. Maybe you can look for any sign of this in the context of your replay.
Regardless, the statement says more about Farmer than it does either or both former Browns. If I were Haslam I would explain that to him.
What are you implying in the last paragraph? What does it say about Farmer? And how did Tate sabotage guys?
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I kind of put it together with what he was saying in the interview (I believe the one during the scrimmage) about how well the QB room is going in that they are competitive, but push each other to ALL get better. I still have it recorded so I may have to find that spot for the exact wording he used. I know it was far different from the "sabotage" statement. That's a very strong word indeed and I assume he knew exactly what he was using it for.
To the point of my question...
I would be surprised if Farmer has any first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the QB room.
The only person in both the 2014 and 2015 QB room with the objectivity to compare them would be Connor Shaw.
So unless Shaw is Farmer's source, and I doubt he is, then my question remains.
I also started wondering last night whether the circumstances around the release of Tate were finding their way into the quote that war posted. Maybe you can look for any sign of this in the context of your replay.
Regardless, the statement says more about Farmer than it does either or both former Browns. If I were Haslam I would explain that to him.
To the point of my question...
I would be surprised if Farmer has any first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the QB room.
He may not actually be sitting in the room, but as GM he has to have his hand on the pulse via first hand accounts to him from his coaches. Otherwise how can he make informed decisions about who goes and who stays and why. Somehow he had to know what was going on in order to say the things that he did including the sabotage statement. Any responsible GM does not use that word frivolously.
The replay showed the "sabotage" statement came out of a preamble about wanting their players to be competitive, but competitive while doing everything they could to make all players excel, even those vying for the same position. That means helping everyone else become the best they can be regardless of whether you are after the same starting job or not.
Not part of the interview but inferred from it is that they basically want "team first" players top to bottom to define what a Browns player is.
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To the point of my question...
I would be surprised if Farmer has any first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the QB room.
The only person in both the 2014 and 2015 QB room with the objectivity to compare them would be Connor Shaw.
So unless Shaw is Farmer's source, and I doubt he is, then my question remains.
I also started wondering last night whether the circumstances around the release of Tate were finding their way into the quote that war posted. Maybe you can look for any sign of this in the context of your replay.
Regardless, the statement says more about Farmer than it does either or both former Browns. If I were Haslam I would explain that to him.
What are you implying in the last paragraph? What does it say about Farmer? And how did Tate sabotage guys?
What are you implying in the last paragraph? What does it say about Farmer? And how did Tate sabotage guys?
In the last I'm saying that if Farmer took a parting shot at a former Brown, as most here are inferring, I'd tell him to never do it again. It's small. It's petty. If Farmer was taking a shot, then he was being small and petty. Not traits in a GM that will attract future FAs.
When Tate was cut it surfaced that he was far from a positive leader for our rookie RBs.
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30953&hl=tate
He may not actually be sitting in the room, but as GM he has to have his hand on the pulse via first hand accounts to him from his coaches. Otherwise how can he make informed decisions about who goes and who stays and why. Somehow he had to know what was going on in order to say the things that he did including the sabotage statement. Any responsible GM does not use that word frivolously.
The replay showed the "sabotage" statement came out of a preamble about wanting their players to be competitive, but competitive while doing everything they could to make all players excel, even those vying for the same position. That means helping everyone else become the best they can be regardless of whether you are after the same starting job or not.
Not part of the interview but inferred from it is that they basically want "team first" players top to bottom to define what a Browns player is.
Maybe the GM should look at productivity? They are not "his coaches"... they are Pet's coaches. That line should not get blurred. What team chemistry feel he cannot get from watching practices, seeing the team travel together, etc., he should get from Pet.
To infer responsible knowledge upon Farmer because of his word choice strikes me as dubious. But if I did, then I'm back to his comment being a parting shot. I'd rather assume it was an ill-considered bit of hyperbole.
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Gotcha thanks.
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