Jonathan Paul Manziel
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The Farmer quote kinda knocked me outta my chair.
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I'm up to the second Cincinnati game from last year so I'm going to be looking closely at Johnny. I really see a lot of parallels between this game and the A&M-Alabama game from last year. The game ended in a 59-0 loss for my Ags. Now, A&M was undoubtedly not as good of a team as Alabama last year, but ask yourself a question, were they 59 points worse? Were they shutout-level worse? No, not at all. In games like these, usually things start out badly and then just snowball to the point where the team doesn't really feel like playing anymore. So in addition to struggling early, they also don't score or defend well late.
We get off to an early 10-0 deficit in the first quarter. Dalton throws a ball that goes right through the hands of Joe Haden in the endzone. There's a missed opportunity.
Offense goes three and out twice. Is it super ugly? I would say no, but nevertheless, three and outs are never good.
Third drive, Johnny makes the incorrect read of the defensive end on a zone read play. He should have given the ball to Crowell but instead keeps it where the DE immediately creams him for about a 6 yard loss. Another missed opportunity or at a minimum, a terrible play. So we get a third and medium and Johnny actually steps up in the pocket (maybe more of a mini-scramble if you want to get technical) and delivers a nice ball to a wide open Hawkins for the first down plus about 10. Hawkins drops it. Another missed opportunity. We punt.
Bengals get the ball back and a stupid penalty on the punt coverage gives them great field position. We force them into 3rd and medium and Hill converts on a backbreaking draw. Then he has a longish run for a touchdown. 17-zip right off the jump. Oh and just for kicks, Haden is hurt.
OK so the offense is back out. First down, completed screen pass for a decent gain. Called back because Seymour was downfield ineligibly. We got our first first down on a penalty but had to punt again.
Robertson then picks off Dalton. Great play. The game wasn't over yet. But Johnny throws a pick in the endzone on a pretty decent scramble then we go three and out to start the second half. That's pretty much the ball game there.
I started a thread the other day on our overall sloppiness on the little things as a team last year. Well when you go to a new quarterback, any improvements you've made on the sloppiness kinda gets reset. You have to make and improve on some of the same mistakes all over again. It's annoying, but it's life. What's more is that Cincinnati does at the end of the day have a pretty salty defense. You don't want your rookie quarterback cutting his teeth on a team like this. And late in the season to boot!
Personally, if I were Pettine, I would have given Johnny the nod as soon as I heard Vontae Davis would be out for the Indianapolis game. You're playing at home against a pretty BAD defense whose number 1 corner is out? Those are much more fertile conditions for a rookie QB than a perennial playoff team with a good defense coming to town to avenge a bad loss only weeks before. Our OL did not have a good game (only Seymour's second start) and our receivers made some critical drops, but certainly Johnny is culpable for the result here. He missed that zone read, he had the ball extended the wrong direction on what was supposed to be a handoff to West, he threw high balls to Dray and Gordon. He threw the two picks in the first half. Etc.
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The most refreshing thing for me watching Manziel is he (in just a scrimmage yes) look TONS better in the pocket. Still not there yet sure, but it's clear the guy has been working on it which was refreshing to see.
Also, holy crap on that naked bootleg where McCown out ran whoever that was and threw the laser beam TD. Even in a flag football league game that was a damn nice play.
Also, holy crap on that naked bootleg where McCown out ran whoever that was and threw the laser beam TD. Even in a flag football league game that was a damn nice play.
I believe that was Kruger he outran.
Play shocked me as well. I did not know that was part of McCown's game. Added shock was that the old vet actually looked quick.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Agree... but was it "informed"?
I kind of put it together with what he was saying in the interview (I believe the one during the scrimmage) about how well the QB room is going in that they are competitive, but push each other to ALL get better. I still have it recorded so I may have to find that spot for the exact wording he used. I know it was far different from the "sabotage" statement. That's a very strong word indeed and I assume he knew exactly what he was using it for.
I kind of put it together with what he was saying in the interview (I believe the one during the scrimmage) about how well the QB room is going in that they are competitive, but push each other to ALL get better. I still have it recorded so I may have to find that spot for the exact wording he used. I know it was far different from the "sabotage" statement. That's a very strong word indeed and I assume he knew exactly what he was using it for.
To the point of my question...
I would be surprised if Farmer has any first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the QB room.
The only person in both the 2014 and 2015 QB room with the objectivity to compare them would be Connor Shaw.
So unless Shaw is Farmer's source, and I doubt he is, then my question remains.
I also started wondering last night whether the circumstances around the release of Tate were finding their way into the quote that war posted. Maybe you can look for any sign of this in the context of your replay.
Regardless, the statement says more about Farmer than it does either or both former Browns. If I were Haslam I would explain that to him.
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Also, holy crap on that naked bootleg where McCown out ran whoever that was and threw the laser beam TD. Even in a flag football league game that was a damn nice play.
I believe that was Kruger he outran.
Play shocked me as well. I did not know that was part of McCown's game. Added shock was that the old vet actually looked quick.
I believe that was Kruger he outran.
Play shocked me as well. I did not know that was part of McCown's game. Added shock was that the old vet actually looked quick.
I haven't really seen him play very much at all in recent years outside of highlights here and there. He used to be really quick and agile so it's good to see he hasn't lost very much of that.
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Also, holy crap on that naked bootleg where McCown out ran whoever that was and threw the laser beam TD. Even in a flag football league game that was a damn nice play.
I believe that was Kruger he outran.
Play shocked me as well. I did not know that was part of McCown's game. Added shock was that the old vet actually looked quick.
I believe that was Kruger he outran.
Play shocked me as well. I did not know that was part of McCown's game. Added shock was that the old vet actually looked quick.
yep....it was Kruger......really enjoyed that one......McCown showed good speed scrambling and lots of zip on that pass......twas nice!
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I kind of put it together with what he was saying in the interview (I believe the one during the scrimmage) about how well the QB room is going in that they are competitive, but push each other to ALL get better. I still have it recorded so I may have to find that spot for the exact wording he used. I know it was far different from the "sabotage" statement. That's a very strong word indeed and I assume he knew exactly what he was using it for.
To the point of my question...
I would be surprised if Farmer has any first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the QB room.
The only person in both the 2014 and 2015 QB room with the objectivity to compare them would be Connor Shaw.
So unless Shaw is Farmer's source, and I doubt he is, then my question remains.
I also started wondering last night whether the circumstances around the release of Tate were finding their way into the quote that war posted. Maybe you can look for any sign of this in the context of your replay.
Regardless, the statement says more about Farmer than it does either or both former Browns. If I were Haslam I would explain that to him.
To the point of my question...
I would be surprised if Farmer has any first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the QB room.
The only person in both the 2014 and 2015 QB room with the objectivity to compare them would be Connor Shaw.
So unless Shaw is Farmer's source, and I doubt he is, then my question remains.
I also started wondering last night whether the circumstances around the release of Tate were finding their way into the quote that war posted. Maybe you can look for any sign of this in the context of your replay.
Regardless, the statement says more about Farmer than it does either or both former Browns. If I were Haslam I would explain that to him.
What are you implying in the last paragraph? What does it say about Farmer? And how did Tate sabotage guys?
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I kind of put it together with what he was saying in the interview (I believe the one during the scrimmage) about how well the QB room is going in that they are competitive, but push each other to ALL get better. I still have it recorded so I may have to find that spot for the exact wording he used. I know it was far different from the "sabotage" statement. That's a very strong word indeed and I assume he knew exactly what he was using it for.
To the point of my question...
I would be surprised if Farmer has any first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the QB room.
The only person in both the 2014 and 2015 QB room with the objectivity to compare them would be Connor Shaw.
So unless Shaw is Farmer's source, and I doubt he is, then my question remains.
I also started wondering last night whether the circumstances around the release of Tate were finding their way into the quote that war posted. Maybe you can look for any sign of this in the context of your replay.
Regardless, the statement says more about Farmer than it does either or both former Browns. If I were Haslam I would explain that to him.
To the point of my question...
I would be surprised if Farmer has any first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the QB room.
He may not actually be sitting in the room, but as GM he has to have his hand on the pulse via first hand accounts to him from his coaches. Otherwise how can he make informed decisions about who goes and who stays and why. Somehow he had to know what was going on in order to say the things that he did including the sabotage statement. Any responsible GM does not use that word frivolously.
The replay showed the "sabotage" statement came out of a preamble about wanting their players to be competitive, but competitive while doing everything they could to make all players excel, even those vying for the same position. That means helping everyone else become the best they can be regardless of whether you are after the same starting job or not.
Not part of the interview but inferred from it is that they basically want "team first" players top to bottom to define what a Browns player is.
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To the point of my question...
I would be surprised if Farmer has any first-hand knowledge of the atmosphere in the QB room.
The only person in both the 2014 and 2015 QB room with the objectivity to compare them would be Connor Shaw.
So unless Shaw is Farmer's source, and I doubt he is, then my question remains.
I also started wondering last night whether the circumstances around the release of Tate were finding their way into the quote that war posted. Maybe you can look for any sign of this in the context of your replay.
Regardless, the statement says more about Farmer than it does either or both former Browns. If I were Haslam I would explain that to him.
What are you implying in the last paragraph? What does it say about Farmer? And how did Tate sabotage guys?
What are you implying in the last paragraph? What does it say about Farmer? And how did Tate sabotage guys?
In the last I'm saying that if Farmer took a parting shot at a former Brown, as most here are inferring, I'd tell him to never do it again. It's small. It's petty. If Farmer was taking a shot, then he was being small and petty. Not traits in a GM that will attract future FAs.
When Tate was cut it surfaced that he was far from a positive leader for our rookie RBs.
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30953&hl=tate
He may not actually be sitting in the room, but as GM he has to have his hand on the pulse via first hand accounts to him from his coaches. Otherwise how can he make informed decisions about who goes and who stays and why. Somehow he had to know what was going on in order to say the things that he did including the sabotage statement. Any responsible GM does not use that word frivolously.
The replay showed the "sabotage" statement came out of a preamble about wanting their players to be competitive, but competitive while doing everything they could to make all players excel, even those vying for the same position. That means helping everyone else become the best they can be regardless of whether you are after the same starting job or not.
Not part of the interview but inferred from it is that they basically want "team first" players top to bottom to define what a Browns player is.
Maybe the GM should look at productivity? They are not "his coaches"... they are Pet's coaches. That line should not get blurred. What team chemistry feel he cannot get from watching practices, seeing the team travel together, etc., he should get from Pet.
To infer responsible knowledge upon Farmer because of his word choice strikes me as dubious. But if I did, then I'm back to his comment being a parting shot. I'd rather assume it was an ill-considered bit of hyperbole.
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Gotcha thanks.
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And this short into TC I think we are right on schedule with all. This is gonna be a good season overall. They are building a team that does not rely on a "star" QB to pull the fat out of the fire every possession. They are building one with a stellar D that just needs an O to at least help keep the other team off the field for half the game with a few first downs as often as possible and some scores when opportunity presents. Staff thinks they will be able to do that.
See, this is something I just disagree on when people mention it. I don't see how in any shape or form you can win more than 7, 8 games without a franchise QB. You can reach that "mediocre" level sure, maybe even sneak into the playoffs. But that strategy will never work long-term, at least IMO.
See, this is something I just disagree on when people mention it. I don't see how in any shape or form you can win more than 7, 8 games without a franchise QB. You can reach that "mediocre" level sure, maybe even sneak into the playoffs. But that strategy will never work long-term, at least IMO.
McCown isn't the path the FO is taking in lieu of seeking a franchise QB, but instead part of the process.
Josh is here to hold down the fort while Manziel develops as Farmer and Pett are still looking to JFF to become the long term solution.
In two years Farmer has brought in a shitload of fresh talent and I'm looking for another step forward this year regardless of who is under center.
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gotta add that this is easily the nicest....most civil....38 page Browns Board Johnny discussion......E V E R !
Keep it up....that means you too Johnny....
gotta add that this is easily the nicest....most civil....38 page Browns Board Johnny discussion......E V E R !
Keep it up....that means you too Johnny....
I wouldn't want to change the direction of this great post and hat's off to Johnny for his good showing. But I have to say that the decision to draft him over Bridgewater has set this franchise back at least 3 years and probably more. After money spent on a study and a perfect opportunity to pick him up late in the first round, it's a shame that intelligent and skilled minds couldn't have prevailed. I know this FO group has made plenty of good decisions and and will learn from this mistake, But many experts and a few arm-chair quarterbacks knew from the start that Johnny's skills would not translate to the NFL. It was a risk we couldn't afford to make and a nurturing process we couldn't afford to consider.
Maybe I'll eat my words. For now, I'm not holding my breath for Johnny and frankly, I don't think the Browns are either.
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gotta add that this is easily the nicest....most civil....38 page Browns Board Johnny discussion......E V E R !
Keep it up....that means you too Johnny....
I wouldn't want to change the direction of this great post and hat's off to Johnny for his good showing. But I have to say that the decision to draft him over Bridgewater has set this franchise back at least 3 years and probably more. After money spent on a study and a perfect opportunity to pick him up late in the first round, it's a shame that intelligent and skilled minds couldn't have prevailed. I know this FO group has made plenty of good decisions and and will learn from this mistake, But many experts and a few arm-chair quarterbacks knew from the start that Johnny's skills would not translate to the NFL. It was a risk we couldn't afford to make and a nurturing process we couldn't afford to consider.
Maybe I'll eat my words. For now, I'm not holding my breath for Johnny and frankly, I don't think the Browns are either.
I wouldn't want to change the direction of this great post and hat's off to Johnny for his good showing. But I have to say that the decision to draft him over Bridgewater has set this franchise back at least 3 years and probably more. After money spent on a study and a perfect opportunity to pick him up late in the first round, it's a shame that intelligent and skilled minds couldn't have prevailed. I know this FO group has made plenty of good decisions and and will learn from this mistake, But many experts and a few arm-chair quarterbacks knew from the start that Johnny's skills would not translate to the NFL. It was a risk we couldn't afford to make and a nurturing process we couldn't afford to consider.
Maybe I'll eat my words. For now, I'm not holding my breath for Johnny and frankly, I don't think the Browns are either.
well i knew after last night's game, there'd be some fans posting on here that are still upset over not drafting bridgewater (just like they'll be the others posting about watkins etc. AGAIN this year). yeah bridgewater looked alright last night against a steeler D which would make this year's crop of brown's defenders look all-pro. hell pitt better be worried if ben ever went down cuz right now he's their one-trick pony.
manziel would have shined against those clowns last night.
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No one wanted that cross dressing homo in Browns Town.
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Teddy Bildgewater didn't want to play here anyways.
No dome to protect his makeup. Bildgey got issuesies.
I think the new stadium's posts were put in place in his honor.....
Stadium: 4th Queen's Post Truss Put In PlacePosted Mar 3, 2015The fourth queenβs post truss and the third on the new stadium roofβs north side was placed this week. The 11 total queenβs post trusses will run north and south and support the roofβs metal decking and ETFE material.
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Kind of refreshing to see a few come to the defense of a Browns QB and deride someone else's for a change.
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gotta add that this is easily the nicest....most civil....38 page Browns Board Johnny discussion......E V E R !
Keep it up....that means you too Johnny....
I wouldn't want to change the direction of this great post and hat's off to Johnny for his good showing. But I have to say that the decision to draft him over Bridgewater has set this franchise back at least 3 years and probably more. After money spent on a study and a perfect opportunity to pick him up late in the first round, it's a shame that intelligent and skilled minds couldn't have prevailed. I know this FO group has made plenty of good decisions and and will learn from this mistake, But many experts and a few arm-chair quarterbacks knew from the start that Johnny's skills would not translate to the NFL. It was a risk we couldn't afford to make and a nurturing process we couldn't afford to consider.
Maybe I'll eat my words. For now, I'm not holding my breath for Johnny and frankly, I don't think the Browns are either.
1) I wouldn't want to change the direction of this great post.....hat's off to Johnny for his good showing.
2) I have to say that the decision to draft him over Bridgewater has set this franchise back at least 3 years and probably more.
1) Woulda been a good post if you had stopped here.....oh well.....
2) Woulda, shoulda, coulda......but.....we didnt....so why cry about the past?.....
Cant change the pick, so I say support Johnnys new found effort(and your team) instead of crying about year old spilled milk....
Teddy Bilgewater is a viking.....Sammy Watkins is a Bill.....Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel are Browns.....embrace it.....
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But what about Khalil?
Sometimes a guy just can't help himself...For me on draft day Teddy vs. Johnny was a matter of who I wanted less.
Who was the better QB in 2014? No doubt.... Teddy, but he wasn't "great".
Who will be better at the end of 2015? Likely Teddy, if for no other reason than a continued lack of data on JM.
Beyond that? Dunno at this point, but by the end of this season we should have a good idea on the ceiling height of at least one of them and, brace yourselves, but I kinda like our guy's odds by that measure. Meanwhile work continues on raising his floor...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Speaking of my "objective constant" in the QB room... here he is...
Side note: Kid looks worlds more mature this year.
Pertinent stuff begins at 3:13 mark.
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But what about Khalil?
Sometimes a guy just can't help himself...For me on draft day Teddy vs. Johnny was a matter of who I wanted less.
Who was the better QB in 2014? No doubt.... Teddy, but he wasn't "great".
Who will be better at the end of 2015? Likely Teddy, if for no other reason than a continued lack of data on JM.
Beyond that? Dunno at this point, but by the end of this season we should have a good idea on the ceiling height of at least one of them and, brace yourselves, but I kinda like our guy's odds by that measure. Meanwhile work continues on raising his floor...
But what about Khalil?
Sometimes a guy just can't help himself...For me on draft day Teddy vs. Johnny was a matter of who I wanted less.
Who was the better QB in 2014? No doubt.... Teddy, but he wasn't "great".
Who will be better at the end of 2015? Likely Teddy, if for no other reason than a continued lack of data on JM.
Beyond that? Dunno at this point, but by the end of this season we should have a good idea on the ceiling height of at least one of them and, brace yourselves, but I kinda like our guy's odds by that measure. Meanwhile work continues on raising his floor...
I was high on Bridgewater throughout the season, but I was not much of a Teddy Twatwater fan come draft time.
However, judging from the way we're seemingly attempting to build this time, I think it's fairly obvious that he was probably Pettine's choice for QB out of that draft class.
The identity we are seemingly trying to build is that of a run first, defensive minded team that beats you into submission and capitalizes on opponent errors. We have a studly offensive line. We have a stable of young runningbacks. We have a couple talented, mixed use WR's and TE's. And we have a veteran QB who is large, a bit lanky, but decently mobile and cerebral.
On paper, it seems like Bridgewater would be the perfect fit for that offense. He's efficient, he's athletic enough, he's tall-ish and lanky and he is a cerebral passer.
So...why the fuck did we go with Manziel? I know Farmer has repeated ad nauseum that Haslam had nothing to do with the pick, but I can't see any scenario in which Pettine and Farmer would have consciously passed up Bridgewater for Manziel.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
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