Who is the best in the AFCN

[wargograw]

Steelers, Bengals, Browns, Ravens. All within 3 games of each other. Capiche?

[MLD Woody]

It's like two extremes going back and forth. Either the side that has the Steelers unrealistically good and browns unrealistically bad... Or the classic brown and orange tinted glasses view. Both are usually pretty biased.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Browns, Bengals, Ravens, Steelers.

[Zombo]

Browns, Steelers, Ravens, Bengals

Z

[Comeonman]

@vagitron said:

And then you realize Andy Dalton is the qb. Steelers, Bengals, Ravens, Browns. Bank it.

I'd take that bet in a heartbeat

[Vagitron]

@comeonman said:

I'd take that bet in a heartbeat

What bet? I didn't say anything about a bet but I whole heartedly believe the steelers will win the division.

[Comeonman]

@vagitron said:

What bet? I didn't say anything about a bet but I whole heartedly believe the steelers will win the division.

Notice the "I'd" not I'll. The first means I would, while second means I will. If it were a bet, I would take it.

[StinkHole]

@mld-woody said:

It's like two extremes going back and forth. Either the side that has the Steelers unrealistically good and browns unrealistically bad... Or the classic brown and orange tinted glasses view. Both are usually pretty biased.

Cant really argue with that...as in the old stock market adage that "past performance does not guarantee future results."

[The Gipper]

@stinkhole said:

Its crystal clear that the Steelers are the best team in the div...the browns second.

Yea, I don't think it is quite so clear. I have the Steelers having the top dog in only like 3-4 spots:

QB with BR

RB with Bell

Timmons at LB

Brown as one of top 2 WRs. I would still put AJ Green as the top WR in the division.....but since we get to put 2 WRs int he starting lineup, Brown gets a spot.

But Gilbert: no way. (I think he is at best 3rd)

Heath Miller: 5 years ago, sure. Not now

Shazier is completely unproven. Maybe in a year or two he can be elevated....but not yet.

Tuitt....no. Competent....but not any better than the other NTs.

[The Gipper]

@vagitron said:

Shazier when the dust settles will be better.

Yea, maybe.....but so far in his career he has played no better than Christian Kirksey. Injuries have hurt him yes.

Like I said: maybe.

[The Gipper]

@vagitron said:

I was only comparing shazier to mosely. Follow along.

But you are basing your opinion on conjecture...potential. And he pointed out that if we are just going on potential, then Danny Shelton and X. Cooper may be dominant defensive linemen as soon as Shazier will be a dominant LB.

And, as noted, Christian Kirksey may in fact be the equal or better than Shazier....when everything shakes out. While the Ourlads has one playing on one side and the other playing on the other side, they are still both ILBs.

Kirksey has got the better of it so far:

47 tackles, 34 assists, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble 3 passes defensed

Shazier:

27 tackles, 13 assists, 0 sacks 0 forced fumbles 1 pass defensed.

Sure, neither was a full time player and Kirksey played about 3 more games.....but he still projected out as more productive.

I am not denying Shaziers talent (as an OSU fan why would I?).

Its just that it really remains to be seen.

As for Mosley....well, he was a full time starter his rookie year unlike the other two but here are his far superior numbers:

99 tackles 52 assists, 3 sacks, 2 interceptions, 1 forced fumble, 1 fumble return

He has the better of it over both of them at this point.

[The Gipper]

@mudfly said:

Dont know if anyone else watched the Eagles slay the Ravens last night......but WOW.....Ravens looked terrible.....

really really bad......

really bad.....

just bad....

baaad...

bad.

.

Good......not that it means anything.

[Riffer X]

@the-gipper said:

Yea, maybe.....but so far in his career he has played no better than Christian Kirksey. Injuries have hurt him yes.

Like I said: maybe.

Those Ohio Stiller fans really love Buckeyes.

Shazier is small and injury prone. Good player, but we will see if he can last.

[The Gipper]

@mld-woody said:

It's like two extremes going back and forth. Either the side that has the Steelers unrealistically good and browns unrealistically bad... Or the classic brown and orange tinted glasses view. Both are usually pretty biased.

The Browns have more talent if you go player 1-26 likely than maybe any of the other teams in the division......but the do suck hind tit at all the offensive skill players......and the whole continuity thing is still a factor with the Browns that as I have said before makes them less than the sum of their parts.

[The Gipper]

@riffer-x said:

Those Ohio Stiller fans really love Buckeyes.

Shazier is small and injury prone. Good player, but we will see if he can last.

I recall that he was often hurt at OSU. Maybe his problem is that he has no eyebrows to serve as a protectorant.

[Mudfly]

@the-gipper said:

Maybe his problem is that he has no eyebrows to serve as a protectorant.

Ahahaha.....hilarious, cause it's true....

Gotta say, as much as I like OSU and the Linebackers we have produced, I never saw the infatuation with Shazier compared to some of those others we had......was shocked that he went so early in the draft, mostly because of the size & injury issues listed above....

[The Gipper]

@mudfly said:

Ahahaha.....hilarious, cause it's true....

Gotta say, as much as I like OSU and the Linebackers we have produced, I never saw the infatuation with Shazier compared to some of those others we had......was shocked that he went so early in the draft, mostly because of the size & injury issues listed above....

I don't know that his size is such an issue. I am liking Hayes Pullard and he seems to be on he smallish side. And some of the best MLBs in history were really not all that big. Look at Jack Lambert. His playing weight was 220 pounds!.

Shazier is listed at 237. Dick Butkus played at 245....as did Ray Lewis. So his weight isn't that far off, not really.

In fact, Shazier is the exact same weight as Lawrence Taylor at 237. Shazier seems like he may play some OLB with his speed.

With a talent like that that has had injury issues, you just hope they don't crop up through his pro career. So far not so good with Shazier.

[The Gipper]

@the-gipper said:

@the-gipper said:

Here I am listing each of the projected starters at each position from all 4 teams in the AFC North.

I am listing them in alphabetical order of Baltimore, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Pittsburgh.

State whom you think is the best at each slot...and perhaps why:

Nobody else wanted to try this? How about this:

Baltimore...........Cincinnati..........Cleveland..........Pittsburgh

Offense:

LWR: Kamar Aiken...AJGreen...Andrew Hawkins...Antonio Brown

RWR: Steve Smith...Muhammed Sanu...Brian Hartline...Markus Wheaton

Take the above all as one group.....and put Green and Brown on top

LOT: Eugene Moore...Andrew Whitworth...Joe Thomas...Kelvin Beachum

LG: Kelechi Osemele...Clint Boling...Joel Bitonio...Ramon Foster

OC: Jeremy Zuttah...TJ Johnson...Alex Mack...Maurkice Pouncey

RG: Marshall Yanda...Dan France...John Greco...David DeCastro

RT: Ricky Wagner...Eric Winston...Mitchell Schwartz...Marcus Gilbert

TE: Crockett Gilmore...Tyler Eifert...Gary Barnidge...Heath Miller

QB: Joe Flacco...Andy Dalton...Josh McCown...Ben Roethlisberger

FB: Kyle Juszcyk...Mark Weisman...Malcom Johnson...Will Johnson

RB: Justin Forsett...Jeremy Hill...Isaiah Crowell...Leveon Bell

Defense:

DE: Tim Jernigan...Geno Atkins...Randy Starks...Cam Heyward

NT: Brandon Williams...Domata Peko...Phil Taylor...Steve McClendon

As the year goes on that person will be Danny Shelton imo

DE: Chris Canty...Michael Johnson...Des. Bryant...Stephon Tuitt

OLB: Terrell Suggs...Carlos Dunlap...Scott Solomon...Arthur Moats

ILB: CJ Mosley...Emanual Lemur...Karlos Dansby...Ryan Shazier

ILB: Daryl Smith...Rey Maualuga...Christian Kirksey...Lawrence Timmons

OLB: Courtney Upshaw...Vontaze Burfict...Paul Kruger...Jarvis Jones

LCB: Ladarius Webb...Dre Kirkpatrick...Joe Haden...William Gay

SS: Will Hill...George Iloka...Donte Whitner...Shamarko Thomas

FS: Kendrick Lewis...Reggie Nelson...Tashaun Gipson...Mike Mitchell

RCB: Jimmy Smith...Leon Hall...Tramon Williams...Allen Cortez

Special Teams:

Punter: Sam Koch...Kevin Huber...Andy Lee...Brad Wing

Kicker: Justin Tucker...Mike Nugent...Travis Coons...Garret Hartley

Punt Returner: Michael Campanaro...Adam Jones...Travis Benjamin...Antonio Brown

Kick Returner: Asa Jackson...Brandon Tate...Marlon Moore...Markus Wheaton

None of the above. The new kickoff rules have emasculated this position.

I realize there may be some changes coming in these depth charts....Feel free to point out where you think people will be shuffled around or replaced.

Choose who is tops....or to place in order.

Looking at my own assessment I have each of the AFCN teams having the "best" player at this many positions:

Cleveland 7

Cincinnati 7

Baltimore 6

Pittsburgh 5

I did not do a count on who has the most "worst players" at each position.....but any of you are welcome to try.

Of course however, we would have a consensus that the Browns likely have the worst of it at the QB position...which matters a lot.

[Mudfly]

@the-gipper said:

I don't know that his size is such an issue. I am liking Hayes Pullard and he seems to be on he smallish side. And some of the best MLBs in history were really not all that big.

Was just talking draft status, where(now) size IS an issue and effects where people are picked....thats why guys with lower production but good size & speed get elevated to the top, while smaller/slower guys with good production like Pullard & Borland drop......hence, Pullard was picked in the 7th, not the first....

Not saying Shazier wont play well....just surprised he went so high.........

[The Gipper]

@mudfly said:

Was just talking draft status, where(now) size IS an issue and effects where people are picked....thats why guys with lower production but good size & speed get elevated to the top, while smaller/slower guys with good production like Pullard & Borland drop......hence, Pullard was picked in the 7th, not the first....

Not saying Shazier wont play well....just surprised he went so high.........

Well, interesting question. While I certainly did not do any "film study" like the NFL scouts do on these players, I can only go by their combine stats, and here is what you have, Shazier vs. Pullard:

Pullard: 6/0 240, 4.66 40, 30.5 vertical, 9'2" Broad jump 4.4 shuttle

Shazier: 6'1 237, 4.38 40, 10'10 broad jump 4.21 shuttle

Shazier "wins" the statistics......perhaps there is your difference between a 1st and 7th rounder.