Who is the best in the AFCN

Mudfly

@the-gipper said:
Maybe his problem is that he has no eyebrows to serve as a protectorant.

Ahahaha.....hilarious, cause it's true....

Gotta say, as much as I like OSU and the Linebackers we have produced, I never saw the infatuation with Shazier compared to some of those others we had......was shocked that he went so early in the draft, mostly because of the size & injury issues listed above....

The Gipper

@mudfly said:

Ahahaha.....hilarious, cause it's true....

Gotta say, as much as I like OSU and the Linebackers we have produced, I never saw the infatuation with Shazier compared to some of those others we had......was shocked that he went so early in the draft, mostly because of the size & injury issues listed above....

I don't know that his size is such an issue. I am liking Hayes Pullard and he seems to be on he smallish side. And some of the best MLBs in history were really not all that big. Look at Jack Lambert. His playing weight was 220 pounds!.

Shazier is listed at 237. Dick Butkus played at 245....as did Ray Lewis. So his weight isn't that far off, not really.

In fact, Shazier is the exact same weight as Lawrence Taylor at 237. Shazier seems like he may play some OLB with his speed.

With a talent like that that has had injury issues, you just hope they don't crop up through his pro career. So far not so good with Shazier.

The Gipper

@the-gipper said:

@the-gipper said:

Here I am listing each of the projected starters at each position from all 4 teams in the AFC North.

I am listing them in alphabetical order of Baltimore, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Pittsburgh.

State whom you think is the best at each slot...and perhaps why:

Nobody else wanted to try this? How about this:

Baltimore...........Cincinnati..........Cleveland..........Pittsburgh

Offense:

LWR: Kamar Aiken...AJGreen...Andrew Hawkins...Antonio Brown

RWR: Steve Smith...Muhammed Sanu...Brian Hartline...Markus Wheaton

Take the above all as one group.....and put Green and Brown on top

LOT: Eugene Moore...Andrew Whitworth...Joe Thomas...Kelvin Beachum

LG: Kelechi Osemele...Clint Boling...Joel Bitonio...Ramon Foster

OC: Jeremy Zuttah...TJ Johnson...Alex Mack...Maurkice Pouncey

RG: Marshall Yanda...Dan France...John Greco...David DeCastro

RT: Ricky Wagner...Eric Winston...Mitchell Schwartz...Marcus Gilbert

TE: Crockett Gilmore...Tyler Eifert...Gary Barnidge...Heath Miller

QB: Joe Flacco...Andy Dalton...Josh McCown...Ben Roethlisberger

FB: Kyle Juszcyk...Mark Weisman...Malcom Johnson...Will Johnson

RB: Justin Forsett...Jeremy Hill...Isaiah Crowell...Leveon Bell

Defense:

DE: Tim Jernigan...Geno Atkins...Randy Starks...Cam Heyward

NT: Brandon Williams...Domata Peko...Phil Taylor...Steve McClendon

As the year goes on that person will be Danny Shelton imo

DE: Chris Canty...Michael Johnson...Des. Bryant...Stephon Tuitt

OLB: Terrell Suggs...Carlos Dunlap...Scott Solomon...Arthur Moats

ILB: CJ Mosley...Emanual Lemur...Karlos Dansby...Ryan Shazier

ILB: Daryl Smith...Rey Maualuga...Christian Kirksey...Lawrence Timmons

OLB: Courtney Upshaw...Vontaze Burfict...Paul Kruger...Jarvis Jones

LCB: Ladarius Webb...Dre Kirkpatrick...Joe Haden...William Gay

SS: Will Hill...George Iloka...Donte Whitner...Shamarko Thomas

FS: Kendrick Lewis...Reggie Nelson...Tashaun Gipson...Mike Mitchell

RCB: Jimmy Smith...Leon Hall...Tramon Williams...Allen Cortez

Special Teams:

Punter: Sam Koch...Kevin Huber...Andy Lee...Brad Wing

Kicker: Justin Tucker...Mike Nugent...Travis Coons...Garret Hartley

Punt Returner: Michael Campanaro...Adam Jones...Travis Benjamin...Antonio Brown

Kick Returner: Asa Jackson...Brandon Tate...Marlon Moore...Markus Wheaton

None of the above. The new kickoff rules have emasculated this position.

I realize there may be some changes coming in these depth charts....Feel free to point out where you think people will be shuffled around or replaced.

Choose who is tops....or to place in order.

Looking at my own assessment I have each of the AFCN teams having the "best" player at this many positions:

Cleveland 7

Cincinnati 7

Baltimore 6

Pittsburgh 5

I did not do a count on who has the most "worst players" at each position.....but any of you are welcome to try.

Of course however, we would have a consensus that the Browns likely have the worst of it at the QB position...which matters a lot.

Mudfly

@the-gipper said:
I don't know that his size is such an issue. I am liking Hayes Pullard and he seems to be on he smallish side. And some of the best MLBs in history were really not all that big.

Was just talking draft status, where(now) size IS an issue and effects where people are picked....thats why guys with lower production but good size & speed get elevated to the top, while smaller/slower guys with good production like Pullard & Borland drop......hence, Pullard was picked in the 7th, not the first....

Not saying Shazier wont play well....just surprised he went so high.........

The Gipper

@mudfly said:

Was just talking draft status, where(now) size IS an issue and effects where people are picked....thats why guys with lower production but good size & speed get elevated to the top, while smaller/slower guys with good production like Pullard & Borland drop......hence, Pullard was picked in the 7th, not the first....

Not saying Shazier wont play well....just surprised he went so high.........

Well, interesting question. While I certainly did not do any "film study" like the NFL scouts do on these players, I can only go by their combine stats, and here is what you have, Shazier vs. Pullard:

Pullard: 6/0 240, 4.66 40, 30.5 vertical, 9'2" Broad jump 4.4 shuttle

Shazier: 6'1 237, 4.38 40, 10'10 broad jump 4.21 shuttle

Shazier "wins" the statistics......perhaps there is your difference between a 1st and 7th rounder.

Vagitron

@the-gipper said:

Yea, I don't think it is quite so clear. I have the Steelers having the top dog in only like 3-4 spots:

QB with BR

RB with Bell

Timmons at LB

Brown as one of top 2 WRs. I would still put AJ Green as the top WR in the division.....but since we get to put 2 WRs int he starting lineup, Brown gets a spot.

But Gilbert: no way. (I think he is at best 3rd)

Heath Miller: 5 years ago, sure. Not now

Shazier is completely unproven. Maybe in a year or two he can be elevated....but not yet.

Tuitt....no. Competent....but not any better than the other NTs.

Tuitt isn't a nose tackle.

Vagitron

@riffer-x said:

Those Ohio Stiller fans really love Buckeyes.

Shazier is small and injury prone. Good player, but we will see if he can last.

Shazier was not injury prone in college. Mosley was injury prone. One injury doesnt label a player as injury prone.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:
Tuitt isn't a nose tackle.

No, right. I was getting my Stephon's mixed up. McClendon is the NT. Nevertheless Tuitt is no better than the other DEs in the AFCN.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:
Shazier was not injury prone in college. Mosley was injury prone. One injury doesnt label a player as injury prone.

The fuck? Did you ever watch Ohio State? I certainly did....and Shazier certainly did have issues in college with injuries. He was not out for whole stretches, but he missed a few games here and there, and missed parts of games.

So, while perhaps he is not made of glass.....he may be found in the glazed pottery section.

Vagitron

@the-gipper said:
No, right. I was getting my Stephon's mixed up. McClendon is the NT. Nevertheless Tuitt is no better than the other DEs in the AFCN.

Right now as he was just a rookie last season.

Vagitron

@the-gipper said:

The fuck? Did you ever watch Ohio State? I certainly did....and Shazier certainly did have issues in college with injuries. He was not out for whole stretches, but he missed a few games here and there, and missed parts of games.

So, while perhaps he is not made of glass.....he may be found in the glazed pottery section.

Freshman year - 13

Sopho year - 12

Junior year - 14

Now correct me if I'm wrong but the college football season is 12 games no? He played every regular season game and a few post season.

Mudfly

@the-gipper said:
Tuitt is no better than the other DEs in the AFCN.

Correct o mundo....Tuitt was actually ranked dead last for all 3-4 rookie DE's last season...earning negative scores 13 out of 17 weeks.....

Looks like he could evolve to be a specialized pass rusher, but is plain ole terrible against the run....

Finished with a -10.2 score for the season(16th out of 16).....it is what it is....

Vagitron

@mudfly said:

Correct o mundo....Tuitt was actually ranked dead last for all 3-4 rookie DE's last season...earning negative scores 13 out of 17 weeks.....

Looks like he could evolve to be a specialized pass rusher, but is plain ole terrible against the run....

Finished with a -10.2 score for the season(16th out of 16).....it is what it is....

Did I miss something? He wasn't a full time starter last season and he was a rookie. I can't wait to beat the shit out of the browns twice this season.

Mudfly

@vagitron said:
Did I miss something? He wasn't a full time starter last season and he was a rookie.

Miss something?.....I dont think so...

Those were rookie rankings.....so ALL of them are rookies.....and the good ones started(and scored better)....

Vagitron

@mudfly said:

Miss something?.....I dont think so...

Those were rookie rankings.....so ALL of them are rookies.....and the good ones started(and scored better)....

Rookies don't start in a dick lebeau defense the vast majority. See good teams don't need to start rookies.

Mudfly

well....I would say that the Steelers have started plenty of rookies.....including Tuitt the last 5 games of 2014.....and Tuitt also had as many snaps as all your other linemen, except for Heyward.....so, whther they started him right away doesnt matter, they played him a lot....

And it doesnt really matter if you start or not....just grades how you play, when you play.....and he graded out as bad....

So...our first round picks suck when they dont start...but yours dont because it's by design?......

Justin Gilbert rookie score -2.5.......Tuitt -10.2......so who has a score thats 5 times lower than who?....(and the same # of snaps)

Vagitron

@mudfly said:

well....I would say that the Steelers have started plenty of rookies.....including Tuitt the last 5 games of 2014.....and Tuitt also had as many snaps as all your other linemen, except for Heyward.....so, whther they started him right away doesnt matter, they played him a lot....

And it doesnt really matter if you start or not....just grades how you play, when you play.....and he graded out as bad....

So...our first round picks suck when they dont start...but yours dont because it's by design?......

Justin Gilbert rookie score -2.5.......Tuitt -10.2......so who has a score thats 5 times lower than who?....(and the same # of snaps)

.

Tuitt wasn't a first round pick, and he certainly wasn't in the top ten.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:
Right now as he was just a rookie last season.

If by "right now" you mean the 2015 season....yes, right now, Tuitt is no better than Canty of Balt., Michael Johnson of Cincy, or Des Bryant of the Browns. And I have Johnson the best of that bunch......not that anyone is particularly head and shoulders better than the others.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:

Freshman year - 13

Sopho year - 12

Junior year - 14

Now correct me if I'm wrong but the college football season is 12 games no? He played every regular season game and a few post season.

He missed a couple of games in there. I was thinking that he was not able to play in one of the bowl games.

He was certainly banged up. I remember being not happy about him not being out there somewhere.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:
Did I miss something? He wasn't a full time starter last season and he was a rookie. I can't wait to beat the shit out of the browns twice this season.

Yes, I think you did.......though Mudfly helped you miss it by not treating you like a 4 year old. He does need to spell things out fully and clearly for you.

By his statement it was clear to me that he was referring to the PFF scores that he has used frequently that grades the performances of NFL players. And he was interpreting Tuitt to have had a particularly terrible score.

Correct me if I am wrong Mud.

So, apparently, if there is any shit kicking to be done, based on past performance, Tuitt will not be in on the act.

Mud.....give those scores if you will for all Defensive Ends in the AFCN.

In the words of The Wolf: pretty please, with sugar on top.