Who is the best in the AFCN

Vagitron

@riffer-x said:

Those Ohio Stiller fans really love Buckeyes.

Shazier is small and injury prone. Good player, but we will see if he can last.

Shazier was not injury prone in college. Mosley was injury prone. One injury doesnt label a player as injury prone.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:
Tuitt isn't a nose tackle.

No, right. I was getting my Stephon's mixed up. McClendon is the NT. Nevertheless Tuitt is no better than the other DEs in the AFCN.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:
Shazier was not injury prone in college. Mosley was injury prone. One injury doesnt label a player as injury prone.

The fuck? Did you ever watch Ohio State? I certainly did....and Shazier certainly did have issues in college with injuries. He was not out for whole stretches, but he missed a few games here and there, and missed parts of games.

So, while perhaps he is not made of glass.....he may be found in the glazed pottery section.

Vagitron

@the-gipper said:
No, right. I was getting my Stephon's mixed up. McClendon is the NT. Nevertheless Tuitt is no better than the other DEs in the AFCN.

Right now as he was just a rookie last season.

Vagitron

@the-gipper said:

The fuck? Did you ever watch Ohio State? I certainly did....and Shazier certainly did have issues in college with injuries. He was not out for whole stretches, but he missed a few games here and there, and missed parts of games.

So, while perhaps he is not made of glass.....he may be found in the glazed pottery section.

Freshman year - 13

Sopho year - 12

Junior year - 14

Now correct me if I'm wrong but the college football season is 12 games no? He played every regular season game and a few post season.

Mudfly

@the-gipper said:
Tuitt is no better than the other DEs in the AFCN.

Correct o mundo....Tuitt was actually ranked dead last for all 3-4 rookie DE's last season...earning negative scores 13 out of 17 weeks.....

Looks like he could evolve to be a specialized pass rusher, but is plain ole terrible against the run....

Finished with a -10.2 score for the season(16th out of 16).....it is what it is....

Vagitron

@mudfly said:

Correct o mundo....Tuitt was actually ranked dead last for all 3-4 rookie DE's last season...earning negative scores 13 out of 17 weeks.....

Looks like he could evolve to be a specialized pass rusher, but is plain ole terrible against the run....

Finished with a -10.2 score for the season(16th out of 16).....it is what it is....

Did I miss something? He wasn't a full time starter last season and he was a rookie. I can't wait to beat the shit out of the browns twice this season.

Mudfly

@vagitron said:
Did I miss something? He wasn't a full time starter last season and he was a rookie.

Miss something?.....I dont think so...

Those were rookie rankings.....so ALL of them are rookies.....and the good ones started(and scored better)....

Vagitron

@mudfly said:

Miss something?.....I dont think so...

Those were rookie rankings.....so ALL of them are rookies.....and the good ones started(and scored better)....

Rookies don't start in a dick lebeau defense the vast majority. See good teams don't need to start rookies.

Mudfly

well....I would say that the Steelers have started plenty of rookies.....including Tuitt the last 5 games of 2014.....and Tuitt also had as many snaps as all your other linemen, except for Heyward.....so, whther they started him right away doesnt matter, they played him a lot....

And it doesnt really matter if you start or not....just grades how you play, when you play.....and he graded out as bad....

So...our first round picks suck when they dont start...but yours dont because it's by design?......

Justin Gilbert rookie score -2.5.......Tuitt -10.2......so who has a score thats 5 times lower than who?....(and the same # of snaps)

Vagitron

@mudfly said:

well....I would say that the Steelers have started plenty of rookies.....including Tuitt the last 5 games of 2014.....and Tuitt also had as many snaps as all your other linemen, except for Heyward.....so, whther they started him right away doesnt matter, they played him a lot....

And it doesnt really matter if you start or not....just grades how you play, when you play.....and he graded out as bad....

So...our first round picks suck when they dont start...but yours dont because it's by design?......

Justin Gilbert rookie score -2.5.......Tuitt -10.2......so who has a score thats 5 times lower than who?....(and the same # of snaps)

.

Tuitt wasn't a first round pick, and he certainly wasn't in the top ten.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:
Right now as he was just a rookie last season.

If by "right now" you mean the 2015 season....yes, right now, Tuitt is no better than Canty of Balt., Michael Johnson of Cincy, or Des Bryant of the Browns. And I have Johnson the best of that bunch......not that anyone is particularly head and shoulders better than the others.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:

Freshman year - 13

Sopho year - 12

Junior year - 14

Now correct me if I'm wrong but the college football season is 12 games no? He played every regular season game and a few post season.

He missed a couple of games in there. I was thinking that he was not able to play in one of the bowl games.

He was certainly banged up. I remember being not happy about him not being out there somewhere.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:
Did I miss something? He wasn't a full time starter last season and he was a rookie. I can't wait to beat the shit out of the browns twice this season.

Yes, I think you did.......though Mudfly helped you miss it by not treating you like a 4 year old. He does need to spell things out fully and clearly for you.

By his statement it was clear to me that he was referring to the PFF scores that he has used frequently that grades the performances of NFL players. And he was interpreting Tuitt to have had a particularly terrible score.

Correct me if I am wrong Mud.

So, apparently, if there is any shit kicking to be done, based on past performance, Tuitt will not be in on the act.

Mud.....give those scores if you will for all Defensive Ends in the AFCN.

In the words of The Wolf: pretty please, with sugar on top.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:

.

Tuitt wasn't a first round pick, and he certainly wasn't in the top ten.

I don't think he was trying to measure draft penis sized.

It seem like he was simply measuring player's actual performance....draft status be damned.

Looking at Mud's figures.....several of the best rookies were actually undrafted FAs.

WE seem to be mixing up our threads here. Here is the data Mud gave on AFCN rookies from the other (rookie) thread:

And here is the PFF breakdown for the top 10 in the AFCN.....(at least those that played a min 25% of snaps)

1) J. Bitonio......22.4

2) C. Mosely....11.3

3) K. Williams....8.7

4) T. Gabriel......6.9

5) R. Hewitt.......4.1

6) M. Bryant......2.6

7) J. Urschell....1.6

C. Gilmore....1.4

9) J. Hill.............1.4

10)J. Gilbert......-2.8

K. Williams and Gabriel....who, per this, rated out as the 3rd and 4th best rookies, were both UDFAs..

Mosley and Gilbert were round 1. Where were the others drafted?

Not that that matters once they hit the field. (and that I think is Mud's point....who cares where they were drafted at this point. What matters is what they do. T. Gipson was undrafted....both of them.

Trolling for dick

@the-gipper said:

Yea, I don't think it is quite so clear. I have the Steelers having the top dog in only like 3-4 spots:

QB with BR

RB with Bell

Timmons at LB

Brown as one of top 2 WRs. I would still put AJ Green as the top WR in the division.....but since we get to put 2 WRs int he starting lineup, Brown gets a spot.

But Gilbert: no way. (I think he is at best 3rd)

Heath Miller: 5 years ago, sure. Not now

Shazier is completely unproven. Maybe in a year or two he can be elevated....but not yet.

Tuitt....no. Competent....but not any better than the other NTs.

Are you watching the Bengals Bucs game? After listening to an entire segment during the game after an interception going through Green's hands about how Dalton has 27 int's throwing to Green and the point being made that many of them are Green's fault, I think it's more than clear who the better receiver is. They just showed 3 or 4 examples of Green not finishing routes or just plain letting the ball go through his hands for interceptions. Hosestly I'd never heard that stat before but Gruden just talked for several minutes about it. AB is better and it's clear.

Vagitron

Brown is the best receiver in the league. Period.

Comeonman

@vagitron said:
Brown is the best receiver in the league. Period.

Thats like...... Your opinion man.....

Comeonman

If anyone can name the movie I owe them a beer

Comeonman

But really, AB is not the best. I would take him over Green though I think. Seems to be more complete