PFF's Ranking the NFL Top Ten QB's

Aggie Brown fan

Don't forget Tommie Frazier, Reggie Bush, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, Tim Tebow, all great college players.

None of those guys put up 10,000 yards of offense in two years on a team that was supposed to get destroyed in the best conference in college football.

How about this? Who was a better college qb, Johnny Manziel or AJ Mccarron? McCarron won 3 national championships, so he must have been better. And Johnny must have been a choker because he never won the big one,

Aggie Brown fan

Ugh, nevermind Gip, neither one of us will change their mind.

Go Browns!

The Gipper

@aggie-brown-fan said:

Don't forget Tommie Frazier, Reggie Bush, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, Tim Tebow, all great college players.

None as good as Manziel.....nor as good as some of the guys I mentioned heretofore.

None of those guys put up 10,000 yards of offense in two years on a team that was supposed to get destroyed in the best conference in college football.

How about this? Who was a better college qb, Johnny Manziel or AJ Mccarron? McCarron won 3 national championships, so he must have been better. And Johnny must have been a choker because he never won the big one,

Answer your own question....what do YOU think.

Aggie Brown fan

I already said Johnny's the best college player I've ever seen, so yeah, he's better than McCarron, who played on a much better team with studs at every position 3-deep.

The Gipper

@aggie-brown-fan said:
I already said Johnny's the best college player I've ever seen, so yeah, he's better than McCarron, who played on a much better team with studs at every position 3-deep.

Here are the college players I have seen play that were as good or better than JFF:

Herschel Walker

Archie Griffin

Dick Butkus

Earl Campbell

OJ Simpson

Barry Sanders

Tony Dorsett

Bo Jackson

Archie Manning

John Elway

Jack Tatum

Vince Young

Roger Staubach

Joe Namath

Johnny Rodgers

Bubba Smith

Eddie George

Again...I am using the term "better"....which is different than "most exciting" "most fun" to watch. Johnny certainly was close to the top on that.

And I am not saying that JMZ does't fit in there with the best....but these guys were perhaps more dynamic football players. And sure, I have to go back to the mid 60s for some of them....so the fact that he is in the Top 15-20 is nothing to sneeze at.

The Gipper

And riddle me this: here is the list of Quarterbacks that won the Heisman Trophy since 1960:

Marcus Mariota

Jameis Winston

Johnny Manziel

Robert Griffin III

Cam Newton

Sam Bradford

Tim Tebow

Troy Smith

Matt Leinert

Jason White

Carson Palmer

Eric Crouch

Chris Weinke

Danny Wuerffel

Charlie Ward

Gino Torreta

Ty Detmer

Andre Ware

Vinny Testaverde

Pat Sullivan

Jim Plunkett

Gary Beban

Steve Spurrier

John Huarte

Roger Staubach

Terry Baker.

Out of 26 Heisman Trophy winners, all but 5 (in blue bold) are either certified busts....or the jury is still out on 5 of themt....noted in italics.

The odds say apparently that only 1 of those in italics will actually make it to become a legit NFL QB.

Which one do you think it will be.....or do you think the odds will be beaten and that 2 or more will turn into a real QB?

Aggie Brown fan

@the-gipper said:

Here are the college players I have seen play that were as good or better than JFF:

Herschel Walker

Archie Griffin

Dick Butkus

Earl Campbell

OJ Simpson

Barry Sanders

Tony Dorsett

Bo Jackson

Archie Manning

John Elway

Jack Tatum

Vince Young

Roger Staubach

Joe Namath

Johnny Rodgers

Bubba Smith

Eddie George

Again...I am using the term "better"....which is different than "most exciting" "most fun" to watch. Johnny certainly was close to the top on that.

And I am not saying that JMZ does't fit in there with the best....but these guys were perhaps more dynamic football players. And sure, I have to go back to the mid 60s for some of them....so the fact that he is in the Top 15-20 is nothing to sneeze at.

All great players, and arguably better. I'm obviously biased, but I put Johnny at the top. Heisman as a Freshman, and was the front-runner to win another one with an 8-2 record. In those 2 losses, the Ags scored 42 and 41. Then he fractured his thumb and lost to LSU and Mizzou. He still came in 5th in the Heisman voting.

He made a lot of noise in 2 years. Let's hope he starts making noise on Sundays.

The Gipper

More fuel for the QB discussion fire. This year both the #1 and #2 pick in the draft were both QBs. This could be trouble for one or both of them. The following list is the years in which a QB was taken both #1 and #2 overall. You can deduce something from this:

2015 Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota

2012 Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III

1999 Tim Couch and Donovan McNabb

1998 Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf

1993 Drew Bledsoe and Rick Meier

1971 Jim Plunkett and Archie Manning

1964 AFL: Jack Concannon and Pete Beathard

1954 Bobby Garrett and Lamar McHan

Of the years prior to 2012 ONLY in 1971 could you say that those #1 and #2 picks turned out to be really good NFL QBs.

In 1954 and 1964 AFL, both QBs were busts. The other years did produce one fairly outstanding QB Bledsoe/Peyton/McNabb.

(many people think of Couch as a bust...I don't think he was a complete bust.....just an unfulfilled career due to injury...he is the only one to start for an "expansion" team).

RGIII seems to be approaching bust mode after one good year.....do you think he will go all the way to a bust of a career? Or will he turn it around?

And which of Winston or Mariota will turn out to be doodoo? (If I were to wager I would wager it would be MM.)

The Gipper

@aggie-brown-fan said:

All great players, and arguably better. I'm obviously biased, but I put Johnny at the top. Heisman as a Freshman, and was the front-runner to win another one with an 8-2 record. In those 2 losses, the Ags scored 42 and 41. Then he fractured his thumb and lost to LSU and Mizzou. He still came in 5th in the Heisman voting.

He made a lot of noise in 2 years. Let's hope he starts making noise on Sundays.

Some of those guys couldn't even play as a freshman under the rules. And some coulda/shoulda won as a Freshman....but the voters were NOT going to give the Heisman to a freshman at all, really right up to about the time of JMZ that taboo still existed. Herschel Walker was the best player as a freshman....but they were not going to vote for him.

Aggie Brown fan

Much as I hate it, Winston is prob gonna be good.

wargograw

@tour2ma said:
Not sure about "allow", but the Colts have put the team on their QB's back to a greater degree... have ask him to win with less support... than any other NFL club. Same was true of Manning in his early Indy days.

Yeah I was just talking about that yesterday actually. That first round pick they made this year was one of the worst I've ever seen, and that's regardless of whether the kid pans out or not.

With the allow comment I just mean they put so much on his shoulders (as you said) and they also had the most passes thrown by a longshot last year, IIRC, which means Luck can afford to have a few terrible throws.

wargograw

@the-gipper said:
Only a sychophant homer would put Romo up there.

I wouldn't put him third, as ABF did, but I have him right after Roethlisberger. He's much better than you give him credit for.

Zombo's criticism of caring about quarterbacks is odd, although if the entire fanbase feels the same way then I suppose it's no wonder we've struggled so much there.

Tour2ma

@wargograw said:
With the allow comment I just mean they put so much on his shoulders (as you said) and they also had the most passes thrown by a longshot last year, IIRC, which means Luck can afford to have a few terrible throws.

We always know what we mean when we type the words... it's stupid readers like me that can't get the message...

@wargograw said:
I wouldn't put him third, as ABF did, but I have him right after Roethlisberger. He's much better than you give him credit for.

Then Romo'd be third on our combined list since I have Ben behind the consensus #1, Rogers.

One under-respected QB I see as top five this year is Matty Ice. Had a great year last year and I think he is going to thrive under Young Shanny's PAP.

Also looking for Carson Palmer to have a great, top ten year. Ariens' and staff were near miraculous last year with a trio of lesser QBs.

If Palmer is in, then someone is out... looks to me like Newton.

I keep wondering when Peyton Manning's decline commences. Looks like 2015 is as any year for him to slide all the way to the bottom five.... of the top ten...

wargograw

Yeah I could see the Broncos offense being bad. Too many losses on the OL plus Julius. Or Peyton could be right back to his old self, he'll make a new elite TE out of some current scrub, and they're fine. Who knows.

Ben at 2. Wow. Pretty high my man. I think I had Ben at 5 when I made my list last season, but IIRC I way overrated Luck. I'm going to assume you don't like Brady as much as most. I just have to give him a ton of credit because his OL is not good at all, his receivers aren't good at all, same with his backs. Basically just he and Gronk, and he still dominates.

I do love me some Matty Ice. Time for him to build a resume. Great late steal for fantasy too.

Agree on Palmer.

Tour2ma

I think Brady and Belichick can wring more production out of less talent than any QB/HC combo in the league.

Since I was joking about Romo, Brady is my likely #3, but hard for me to put that fine of a point on a QB list. Plus I think Bill wants to revert to a running game this year... again... Whether they can successfully do so remains to be seen.

Ben's numbers will suffer early due to missing pieces, but once the suspensions are over...

I saw his Offense ending up second to Green Bay before Jordy went down... and while I still see GB on top, it could be closer than I thought.

The Gipper

I got Romo about 15? Maybe a little higher.....that's it.

Aggie Brown fan

@the-gipper said:
I got Romo about 15? Maybe a little higher.....that's it.

This is just silly. In your first post, you said Romo "still mostly chokes". What games last season did he choke in?

The Gipper

@aggie-brown-fan said:
This is just silly. In your first post, you said Romo "still mostly chokes". What games last season did he choke in?

We are talking about a career, not just one season.

If we want to say who had the great seasons....then Derek Anderson could be on such a list.

And let's face it....maybe he didn't swallow so hard last year....but he still has the choker gene in him

As someone said: this will only end in heartache for you.

Tour2ma

Yeah, but Derek would not be on anyone's 2015 projection list... which is what I thought this thread was about.

Aggie Brown fan

@the-gipper said:

We are talking about a career, not just one season.

If we want to say who had the great seasons....then Derek Anderson could be on such a list.

And let's face it....maybe he didn't swallow so hard last year....but he still has the choker gene in him

As someone said: this will only end in heartache for you.

So even though you won't give me an example of him choking last season, you say he "still mostly chokes". Are you trolling? When you say stuff, it's easier to believe you when you can back it up with at least 1 fact or trend or piece of evidence.

The dude is 14th all-time in career 4th q comebacks. That number would be higher if it weren't for Dallas shitty defenses turning his comebacks into Stafford's/Eli's/Peyton's/etc. comebacks.