Browns Draft Strategy beginning in 2016
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MUD NAILED IT !!! LOL.
For further information about how to handle
the whiners on the board:
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2016 will be the first year that I'm all in on a top QB in the draft. The WR's will be just fine next year - we need a QB. 2017 we can draft a round1 WR and a round2 OL.
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2016 will be the first year that I'm all in on a top QB in the draft. The WR's will be just fine next year - we need a QB. 2017 we can draft a round1 WR and a round2 OL.
2016 will be the first year that I'm all in on a top QB in the draft. The WR's will be just fine next year - we need a QB. 2017 we can draft a round1 WR and a round2 OL.
why wouldn't we be able to draft all 3 next year?
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Evaluating right now Bitonio looks solid and I still don't want to give up on West but other than that nothing stellar. Kirksey has been ok. Gilbert and Manziel are horrible and Desir really hasn't played. The 2015 class hasn't played a down in the real NFL yet so not fair to evaluate them.
Evaluating right now Bitonio looks solid and I still don't want to give up on West but other than that nothing stellar. Kirksey has been ok. Gilbert and Manziel are horrible and Desir really hasn't played. The 2015 class hasn't played a down in the real NFL yet so not fair to evaluate them.
I have Desir at close to 100 snaps last year with a positive grade. He can play.
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BaconHound and whoever, the thing is our receivers are actually pretty good. And I'm gonna say this on every thread bashing them until they get their due credit.
I've been wanting to start a 2016 draft needs thread but i don't think anyone wants to discuss yet.
We don't have a receiver on our roster that would be a number 1 on any other team except for possibly the Panthers because Benjamin got hurt. And on many teams Detroit, Indy, Giants, Broncos, etc wouldn't be their #2.
We don't have a receiver on our roster that would be a number 1 on any other team except for possibly the Panthers because Benjamin got hurt. And on many teams Detroit, Indy, Giants, Broncos, etc wouldn't be their #2.
But we also don't have the likes of Stafford, Luck, or the Manning sisters on our roster.
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Easier to get WRs than QBs
I won't disagree, my point is why have a Ferrari when you can only drive during rush hour?
Having elite receivers but a QB that can't distribute the ball as effectively is a minimal return on investment at best.
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So tired of the wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth over the WR spot. This team is deep at WR, and there are still so many things we don't know about this group. These guys can get open and catch the ball, I'm fine with that.
Furthermore, the Browns scored 16 touchdowns with a middle tier free agent and two rookies. Crowell scored 8 TDs as an UDFA. For a team that lost their prob owl center, that's pretty good.
I hear guys on the radio say shit like "the Browns might win 3 games this year" and it really blows my mind. This team is better and deeper than it was a year ago and we are supposed to believe that Cleveland was better off with Weeden, Massoquai, Little, Bess, McGahee etc.
Do people go to a steak house and say "that was one hell of a steak, but the parsley was gross! This entree might win three or four games..."
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So we have 4 compensatory picks right? Lost Cameron, Skrine, Sheard, Hoyer, Rubin, and Austin but added Housler (yikes) and Williams.
Over The Cap projects us with 3 5th round compensatory picks and one in the 7th. We all THOUGHT that this (2015) draft would be the one we would draft less guys than we had picks for going on, but we ended up drafting MORE. So you would think this year they'll finally go with just a select few guys.
Wish list:
1. QB-So, any of the following scenarios could happen:
A. Johnny plays, we draft a QB
B. Johnny doesn't play, we draft a QB
C. Johnny plays, we don't draft a QB
D. Johnny doesn't play, we don't draft a QB
The possibilities are endless because he could play and do well enough to warrant not taking a QB or he could suck and we have to take one. Or McCown does well enough that Johnny doesn't play BUT the staff still likes his progress and feels we don't need a QB.
Of course all this analysis is further muddied by the fact that some in the office may feel that this is a once-every-few-years type of QB class. Moving on...
CONTINGENT ON: Staff's view of Manziel's development (whether he plays or not), McCown's play (if he plays well then maybe we think we can wait a year), how the board breaks (are there any decent QBs left when we pick), and lastly, whether a defensive position becomes an absolute NEED due to this or that.
2. Elite OLB-I'm either taking an OLB in the 1st round (ie we don't draft a QB OR we have two 1st rounders again) or not until later in the draft. OLB is contingent on QB, but also on how well our guys do this year. Orchard, Solomon, etc. may show well enough to make this pick unnecessary.
CONTINGENT ON: The play of Mingo, Orchard, and Solomon, whether we need a QB or not.
3. DE-I'm good with one in the 2nd round. This need can also be negated by the play of our guys this year (I suppose they all can).
CONTINGENT ON: The performance of Cooper and the Bryant's.
4. WR-I'm good with one in either of the first 2 rounds. I'm only taking one in the 1st if I have good QB play this year. IF that happens, then this probably probably shoots up to #1, as we can field a great defense without adding a top flight DE or OLB, but a great receiver could be a big difference maker with the offensive tools we already have (again only IF the QB looks good).
CONTINGENT ON: Us not needing a QB, whether a defensive position becomes an absolute NEED, the play of Pryor, and how the staff feels about Gordon.
5. Pick em, RB/TE/S-If our backs are average again, take a RB in the first three rounds. Hopefully none are taken in the 1st round as in 2013 and 2014.
If our TEs don't prove themselves, take a TE in the first three. Same with Campbell/other young safeties. Gotta have someone ready to replace Whitner in due time.
CONTINGENT ON: Performance at those positions.
Non-needs (this isn't to say don't draft one at all, but no need to use a high pick on one):
1. OL-Right?
2. ILB-Dansby is getting older but I love what we have in Kirksey and Robertson
3. DT-Danny Shelton, nuff said
4. CB
5. FB-Maybe it becomes a need (though doubtful), but you're not using anywhere near a top pick on one
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Farmer got his own scouts in place after the JM and Gilbert draft. Hope we all see what we got on paper for this season including our 2 first rounder's. This looks promising to me and a lot of our selections were from a new scout out west. I feel 2016 will be all about fixing the other side of the ball on Offense and Cal's QB Goff and others will be scouted and 1 or 2 Feature WR will be our two top positions targeted and am not counting on J. Gordon being on this team 2016.
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Well if he ditched the 2014 draft scouts that would be sad. At least if they had anything to do with K'Waun, Crowell, Desir, Gabriel, etc.
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Story has it most our scouts our Banner's and Farmer is weeding out a few.
I have no idea what this means.
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I have no idea what this means.
I think he means that each GM wants to choose his own scouting dept. When Lombardi came in here he was "stuck" with the scouts that Heckert had.....so in his draft he chose like the first 3 rounders...then traded everything after that because he didn't want to rely on the scouts on his staff (and it is those scouts who really do the meat of the work on the lower round draft picks). He was "stuck" with them for that draft....but he totally undermined all their efforts by making all those trades.
Similar situation possible here. Farmer came in and was "stuck" with Lombardi's scouts. Again, notice that almost all of the lower round picks in 2014 were traded as well. But this past year Farmer chose all 11 or 12 of his picks.
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So we have 4 compensatory picks right? Lost Cameron, Skrine, Sheard, Hoyer, Rubin, and Austin but added Housler (yikes) and Williams.
Over The Cap projects us with 3 5th round compensatory picks and one in the 7th. We all THOUGHT that this (2015) draft would be the one we would draft less guys than we had picks for going on, but we ended up drafting MORE. So you would think this year they'll finally go with just a select few guys.
Wish list:
1. QB-So, any of the following scenarios could happen:
A. Johnny plays, we draft a QB
B. Johnny doesn't play, we draft a QB
C. Johnny plays, we don't draft a QB
D. Johnny doesn't play, we don't draft a QB
The possibilities are endless because he could play and do well enough to warrant not taking a QB or he could suck and we have to take one. Or McCown does well enough that Johnny doesn't play BUT the staff still likes his progress and feels we don't need a QB.
Of course all this analysis is further muddied by the fact that some in the office may feel that this is a once-every-few-years type of QB class. Moving on...
CONTINGENT ON: Staff's view of Manziel's development (whether he plays or not), McCown's play (if he plays well then maybe we think we can wait a year), how the board breaks (are there any decent QBs left when we pick), and lastly, whether a defensive position becomes an absolute NEED due to this or that.
2. Elite OLB-I'm either taking an OLB in the 1st round (ie we don't draft a QB OR we have two 1st rounders again) or not until later in the draft. OLB is contingent on QB, but also on how well our guys do this year. Orchard, Solomon, etc. may show well enough to make this pick unnecessary.
CONTINGENT ON: The play of Mingo, Orchard, and Solomon, whether we need a QB or not.
3. DE-I'm good with one in the 2nd round. This need can also be negated by the play of our guys this year (I suppose they all can).
CONTINGENT ON: The performance of Cooper and the Bryant's.
4. WR-I'm good with one in either of the first 2 rounds. I'm only taking one in the 1st if I have good QB play this year. IF that happens, then this probably probably shoots up to #1, as we can field a great defense without adding a top flight DE or OLB, but a great receiver could be a big difference maker with the offensive tools we already have (again only IF the QB looks good).
CONTINGENT ON: Us not needing a QB, whether a defensive position becomes an absolute NEED, the play of Pryor, and how the staff feels about Gordon.
5. Pick em, RB/TE/S-If our backs are average again, take a RB in the first three rounds. Hopefully none are taken in the 1st round as in 2013 and 2014.
If our TEs don't prove themselves, take a TE in the first three. Same with Campbell/other young safeties. Gotta have someone ready to replace Whitner in due time.
CONTINGENT ON: Performance at those positions.
Non-needs (this isn't to say don't draft one at all, but no need to use a high pick on one):
1. OL-Right?
2. ILB-Dansby is getting older but I love what we have in Kirksey and Robertson
3. DT-Danny Shelton, nuff said
4. CB
5. FB-Maybe it becomes a need (though doubtful), but you're not using anywhere near a top pick on one
Non-needs (this isn't to say don't draft one at all, but no need to use a high pick on one):
1. OL-Right?
Did Mack stay or go? If he stayed, then less reason to go "high".
Did we resign both Greco and Schwartz? If so, then two less reasons to go "high".
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Dang I didn't realize those two were up as well. But yes that would be correct. Don't let the OL fall off. What did you think of the rest?
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Dang I didn't realize those two were up as well. But yes that would be correct. Don't let the OL fall off. What did you think of the rest?
Dang I didn't realize those two were up as well. But yes that would be correct. Don't let the OL fall off. What did you think of the rest?
Bit convoluted, but I think we end up in the same place, i.e., never take a FB in Round 1...
Hard for me to go deeper now as I don't have a good feel for the talent level in the upcoming, 2016 draft to develop a BPA counterbalance to your needs analysis. I'm very much in the camp of looking at the intersection of those two sets for players.
I think we take a QB next year. Question is when? And that is very much Josh-performance/Johnny-perception dependent. One of my guiding draft principle is "you always look for your next QB." How hard, and often, you look depends on your current QB situation.
At a minimum I invest a mid-ish round pick every other year in a QB I think has a chance to be good. In past years my guys were Nick Foles and AJ McCarron. Also Tannehill, but then he caught fire and rocketed to the top of teams' boards... I wasn't that convinced... shame on me...
Beyond that, on a pure, needs basis:
- OLB - As you likely know by now, your OLB emphasis is near and dear to my heart. My dream of a 3-down, impact OLB lives on...
- DE - Not sure I see the need to invest high here... not in the Pet/O'Neil scheme. Undersized DTs can fill need here and come cheap... but if a supertalent was available...
- WR - Gordon's return really muddies things up here. So far, so good with his most recent suspension. I really have to see this year's corps.
- RB - Really hinges on Duke's health and development as he is our youthiest youth...
- TE - Hinges on Bibbs/ Johnson impact.
- S_ - Gip's health and return to form atop your SS questions.
- OL - Joe's continued good health would forestall heavy investment another year, but loss of any of the three I mentioned in my previous reply would hasten it. Our inability to date to significantly develop middling talent is becoming a concern.
- NT - We're not going into 2015 with the quality depth I thought we would.
- ILB - Pullard in the 63 helps here.
- CB - With Framer's UDFA track record, I'm not sweating this position... plus there's Ekpre-Olomu's debut next year...
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Farmer blew it in the first round last year passing on Khalil Mack, Mike Evans and could have had Garapollo, Carr or Bridgewater
But it's passed. I do like Shelton, Erving, Cooper, and Gaines and believe next year will be the year of Cardale Jones and a wide receiver.
So far, Kevin White and Davanta Parker would have done us no good. So someone light a fire under Dwane Bowe because he looked bad against Tampa.
Memo to Pettine: Let Crowell carry the rock! Stop rotating with West and let Crowell get into a rhythm! And then use Duke Johnson like Sproles and Vereen. If Duke ever gets on the field.
So far, Kevin White and Davanta Parker would have done us no good. So someone light a fire under Dwane Bowe because he looked bad against Tampa.
Let's not forget that Bowe hasn't been practicing for a few weeks (and one pass was thrown well behind him) In time he will show improvement. I think he can truly be our #1 this year and when that happens, you'll really see this team improve.
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We don't have a receiver on our roster that would be a number 1 on any other team except for possibly the Panthers because Benjamin got hurt. And on many teams Detroit, Indy, Giants, Broncos, etc wouldn't be their #2.
Well since Hawkins, as a slot guy, isn't eligible to be a #1, you can't compare. He is easily a top 10 slit guy in the league. And our guys aren't good because we have a great 1, they're good because we've got three guys who would be 2s, despite your disbelief. I posted it before, Gabriel was a top 20 receiver last year. You would rather loathe in misery than look at it.
Well since Hawkins, as a slot guy, isn't eligible to be a #1, you can't compare. He is easily a top 10 slit guy in the league. And our guys aren't good because we have a great 1, they're good because we've got three guys who would be 2s, despite your disbelief. I posted it before, Gabriel was a top 20 receiver last year. You would rather loathe in misery than look at it.
Guy caught 36 balls and had 1 TD, puff puff pass. Chiefs didn't want Bowe, the Dolphins didn't want Hartline, and we aren't talking about the Rice/Taylor 49ers. I get the positivity cause the Browns are still tied for first but it just isn't reality.
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Well since Hawkins, as a slot guy, isn't eligible to be a #1, you can't compare. He is easily a top 10 slit guy in the league. And our guys aren't good because we have a great 1, they're good because we've got three guys who would be 2s, despite your disbelief. I posted it before, Gabriel was a top 20 receiver last year. You would rather loathe in misery than look at it.
Guy caught 36 balls and had 1 TD, puff puff pass. Chiefs didn't want Bowe, the Dolphins didn't want Hartline, and we aren't talking about the Rice/Taylor 49ers. I get the positivity cause the Browns are still tied for first but it just isn't reality.
Guy caught 36 balls and had 1 TD, puff puff pass. Chiefs didn't want Bowe, the Dolphins didn't want Hartline, and we aren't talking about the Rice/Taylor 49ers. I get the positivity cause the Browns are still tied for first but it just isn't reality.
Spot on.
Just take a look at those Pro Bowl WR's in Seattle and New England.
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