Joe Scarborough

[Kosar_For_President]

@smalls1129 said:

http://philanthropy.com/free/articles/v19/i04/04001101.htm

http://richiericher.wordpress.com/2008/02/...e-conservatism/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/charit...rity-poll_N.htm

There's a couple. I was headline searching so I am not vouching for everything in them.

Cool thanks.

[osusev]

here is a rare moment Tupa and I will actually agree.

Typically Business owners/entrepreneurs make more therefore pay more in taxes and able to give more to charitable foundations.

That obviously as Tupa pointed out a gross over simplification. Greed is a powerful motive, honestly it is very hard at times for me to not want to go over and become a rank and file type of republican because it would benefit me.

[choco]

@diehardbrownsfan said:

And Obama smoking weed is an issue, he is in the highest public office. He should set an example. Not a joke, only to fools like you.

i dont think....i dont remember too many people up in arms about dubya's days of snortin whiskey and drinkin coke.....

[Westside Steve]

@choco said:

i dont think....i dont remember too many people up in arms about dubya's days of snortin whiskey and drinkin coke.....

You don't?

Proof that weed fu*ks up the memory.

WSS

[Pumpkin Eater]

I'm not sure I get the conservative logic.

It's socialism when Obama proposes it, but when a foreign country that's not Russia or Venezuela has the same policy, it's not socialism? How does that make sense?

[Westside Steve]

@pumpkin-eater said:

I'm not sure I get the conservative logic.

It's socialism when Obama proposes it, but when a foreign country that's not Russia or Venezuela has the same policy, it's not socialism? How does that make sense?

So what you're saying is that Obama is correct in implementing Russian and Venezuelan ideas into US policiy?

Actually is it only the term socialist that bothers ya?

Because those aren't the only two countries that practice some form or extent of socialism.

WSS

[choco]

@westside-steve said:

You don't?

Proof that weed fu*ks up the memory.

WSS

yup, makes me forget everything.....

you, on the otherhand, have selective memory from your kool-aide enema courtesy of the GOP. you have any opinions that are not republican talking points, steve?

[Westside Steve]

@choco said:

yup, makes me forget everything.....

you, on the otherhand, have selective memory from your kool-aide enema courtesy of the GOP. you have any opinions that are not republican talking points, steve?

Well as I often ask guys who make that baseless accusation, list a few topics in which I'm in lockstep with a party.

If you can do that I may take the time to discuss the differences.

If you can't I may point out that you're talking out your ass.

Fair?

WSS

[Kosar_For_President]

@westside-steve said:

So what you're saying is that Obama is correct in implementing Russian and Venezuelan ideas into US policiy?

Actually is it only the term socialist that bothers ya?

Because those aren't the only two countries that practice some form or extent of socialism.

WSS

Norway has the highest standard of living in the World and are socialists.

[Westside Steve]

@kosar_for_president said:

Norway has the highest standard of living in the World and are socialists.

The tenets of Jante Law are:

. You shall not think you are special.

. You shall not believe you are smarter than others.

. You shall not believe you are wiser than others.

. You shall not behave as if you are better than others.

. You shall not believe that you know more than others.

. You shall not believe that you can fix things better than others.

. You shall not laugh at others.

. You shall not believe that others care about you.

. You shall not believe that you can teach others anything.

As I've said repeatedly socialism is not evil.

It is, IMO, a completely unworkable system in our culture.

And I'd guess that even you'd admit Norway is a far different place than the US.

And a fairly rare case of socialistic success.

But in another thousand years who knows?

WSS

[We need Tom Tupa]

@kosar_for_president said:

Norway has the highest standard of living in the World and are socialists.

So all we need to do is export as much oil as Saudi Arabia and shrink our population by 99%, and we can have a higher standard of living? Who's in?!! Yeah!

[Westside Steve]

@we-need-tom-tupa said:

So all we need to do is export as much oil as Saudi Arabia and shrink our population by 99%, and we can have a higher standard of living? Who's in?!! Yeah!

Third largest exporter of oil in the world.

Right behind the other socialist paradise, Russia.

WSS

[choco]

@westside-steve said:

Well as I often ask guys who make that baseless accusation, list a few topics in which I'm in lockstep with a party.

If you can do that I may take the time to discuss the differences.

If you can't I may point out that you're talking out your ass.

Fair?

WSS

un huh....so, when are you going to support anything you say then, steve? huh?

i dont think....i dont remember too many people up in arms about dubya's days of snortin whiskey and drinkin coke.....

all you can make is a quip about my memory......

so where's all the people getting their panties bunched because dubya was a coke head? have any links? something to support you implied claim? we made jokes, sure....im sure the drugs helped his fantastic oratory skills.....

as i see it, there's a much bigger problem of a cokehead with a drinking problem at the helm than a toker.......

so if you want me to take the time to review your post history to pwn you, you have to do your initial leg work first. you old guys are lazy as hell when it comes to proper intertube etiquette. only promising that you "may" then discuss topic is hardly invoking me to play along......just makes me think that you have nothing but your word....which is only as good as 1's and 0's on a computer screen.

[osusev]

@westside-steve said:

It is, IMO, a completely unworkable system in our culture.

And I'd guess that even you'd admit Norway is a far different place than the US.

And a fairly rare case of socialistic success.

But in another thousand years who knows?

WSS

I am tired of trying to argue about Socialism and it's many and DIFFERENT applications to people who either really dont understand the term or are confusing it with the SOLE application of COMMUNISM. Here READ first: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/551569/socialism

socialism

Overview

System of social organization in which private property and the distribution of income are subject to social control

(Funny that sounds like our medicare/medicaid/welfare programs/hud housing/Federal and State Grant systems) Seems to be working HERE for quite a while)

; also, the political movements aimed at putting that system into practice.

Because “social control” may be interpreted in widely diverging ways, socialism ranges from statist to libertarian, from Marxist to liberal. The term was first used to describe the doctrines of Charles Fourier, Henri de Saint-Simon, and Robert Owen, who emphasized noncoercive communities of people working noncompetitively for the spiritual and physical well-being of all (see utopian socialism). Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, seeing socialism as a transition state between capitalism and communism, appropriated what they found useful in socialist movements to develop their “scientific socialism.” In the 20th century, the Soviet Union was the principal model of strictly centralized socialism, while Sweden and Denmark were well-known for their noncommunist socialism. See also collectivism, communitarianism, social democracy.

Main

social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.

HMMM that kind of alludes to our Taxing system of how we to REALLOCATE according to income levels in order to make fair who actually benefits the most........

[Kosar_For_President]

@westside-steve said:

The tenets of Jante Law are:

. You shall not think you are special.

. You shall not believe you are smarter than others.

. You shall not believe you are wiser than others.

. You shall not behave as if you are better than others.

. You shall not believe that you know more than others.

. You shall not believe that you can fix things better than others.

. You shall not laugh at others.

. You shall not believe that others care about you.

. You shall not believe that you can teach others anything.

As I've said repeatedly socialism is not evil.

It is, IMO, a completely unworkable system in our culture.

And I'd guess that even you'd admit Norway is a far different place than the US.

And a fairly rare case of socialistic success.

But in another thousand years who knows?

WSS

I agree. What if we combined the two. Capisocialism. lol

[osusev]

@we-need-tom-tupa said:

So all we need to do is export as much oil as Saudi Arabia and shrink our population by 99%, and we can have a higher standard of living? Who's in?!! Yeah!

So how is our overbalanced consumerism working for us Tupa? You denigrate another country because they have a small population and are a net exporter as a basis of a counter argument?

Imagine that a culture that instead of practicing unbalanced credit based consumerism vs what they produce and manufacture domestically has a higher standard of living...

That makes their appilcation of socialism invalid..... sure sounds logical.

[We need Tom Tupa]

@osusev said:

So how is our overbalanced consumerism working for us Tupa? You denigrate another country because they have a small population and are a net exporter as a basis of a counter argument?

Imagine that a culture that instead of practicing unbalanced credit based consumerism vs what they produce and manufacture domestically has a higher standard of living...

That makes their appilcation of socialism invalid..... sure sounds logical.

It makes their application irrelevant to the US. There is nothing we can do to make our economy as dependent on natural resources as theirs. And there is nothing we can do to shrink our population down to the size of Phoenix. Am I wrong about that? Do you have a plan to implement either of those proposals?

[Westside Steve]

@osusev said:

So how is our overbalanced consumerism working for us Tupa? You denigrate another country because they have a small population and are a net exporter as a basis of a counter argument?

Imagine that a culture that instead of practicing unbalanced credit based consumerism vs what they produce and manufacture domestically has a higher standard of living...

That makes their appilcation of socialism invalid..... sure sounds logical.

I don't think Toop denigrated anyone.

Just explaining how a tiny and ancient country with huge natural resource income might be OK as socialists.

And who will be the morality csar to tell us what we can and cant have in America?

You?

Jante law?

WSS

[osusev]

Just because they have a small population and a net exporter does not mean the socialistic application they use is invalid nor the theory of its application on how it compared to our version of socialistic applications.

Two different sets of rescources and populations/cultures are never going to be Exactly the same in comparison. There standard of living according to the formula used to measure each respective country is high. Yes the system is not stressed because the net income versus population service numbers is on the positive side because of net exporting of oil.

We can not conclude where the "stress" point is financially that has a correlary population number. NO system will be perfect, that factor by itself does not invalidate socialistic applications in government.

We ALREADY DO PRACTICE socialism, our tax system and medicare, etc are all forms of social capital redistribution meaning SOCIALISM. the broad brush that is negatively painted about that word is odd to say the least. Almost ALL forms of government practice some sort of socialistic application in order to deal with the squalor and poverty factor. That is how governments stay in power, keeping some sort of control on the unhappy poorer sections of each system. Well maybe not Medieval France and others.... but they were eventually Beheaded by the population....

I am not for a centralized system like communism or something like Chavez is trying in Venezuela and others. There is nothing wrong and really everything right to apply SOME social redistribution in our system. Without that well EVERY government system is brought down low by the unhappy poorer class.

[We need Tom Tupa]

Thanks for the 9th grade civics lesson, but I never said all social programs were evil or that we should avoid them. My only point was that Norway is not a strong example of anything relevant to this discussion. If the point is that Socialism doesn't necessarily result in doom, then I agree. Otherwise, I dont see how it applies. And from your post, it seems like we agree.