Jonathan Paul Manziel
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My mama's a man.
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Nitrogen is the future. Bigger molecules, and tastes great with salsa.
Methane.. One big fart can blow the whole mutha up at seasons end LOL!
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I don't understand when we drafted Manziel what our vision was with what we were going to do with him? Was our plan to take a mobile qb and develop him into a pocket passer? I agree that working on making him a better qb inside the pocket is good but is that who he is? Even his size is working against him inside the pocket at 5'11'' trying to look down the field and throw surrounded by huge lineman towering over him. He has always been best as a roll out passer and scrambling.
One of the best compliments I heard about Manziel coming out of A & M was from Fran Tarkenton who said of anyone in the NFL it was Manziel who played the most similar to him. The problem however is that many of the NFL talking heads say that in Todays NFL the days of qb's like Fran Tarkenton have passed.
I think the Browns are working to make Manziel a better pocket passer and that is good but I still like a qb who can scramble like Manziel and drive defenses crazy.
Here is a good article on why I am wrong though:
For the umpteenth time since Fran Tarkenton, the mobile quarterback revolution has failed;
the pocket passer reigns on.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1832339-is-qb-mobility-more-of-a-curse-than-a-blessing
Maybe looking at a qb like Russell Wilson is more the vision for a qb like Manziel:
"Wilson does most of his running east to west. He's not a zone-read weapon or a two-read-and-take-off sprinter. He's not a tailback with an arm, but an instinctual quarterback in the Tarkenton mold.
Pete Carroll doesn't have to balance Wilson's ability to run with his health; Wilson generally doesn't gain yards on the ground unless he's run entirely away from the defense. Carroll's challenge is to speed up Wilson's in-pocket decision-making so he can execute the offense as intended."
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The plan is to make JFF something like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben - pocket passer first, but with great ability to make things happen from broken plays, ability to pick up yardage with his legs at times, but not play 'turkey bowl' football like he had a tendency to in Texas.
At least, that's what I'd imagine, and seems to be their plan.
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The plan is to make JFF something like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben - pocket passer first, but with great ability to make things happen from broken plays, ability to pick up yardage with his legs at times, but not play 'turkey bowl' football like he had a tendency to in Texas.
At least, that's what I'd imagine, and seems to be their plan.
The plan is to make JFF something like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben - pocket passer first, but with great ability to make things happen from broken plays, ability to pick up yardage with his legs at times, but not play 'turkey bowl' football like he had a tendency to in Texas.
At least, that's what I'd imagine, and seems to be their plan.
I agree Chris except probably more like Wilson over Roethlisberger. JM is going to need some elevator shoes to be a qb like Roethlisberger.
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The main reason JM moves out of the pocket is because he can't see over the lineman, he's always going to have to roll out.
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The plan is to make JFF something like Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben - pocket passer first, but with great ability to make things happen from broken plays, ability to pick up yardage with his legs at times, but not play 'turkey bowl' football like he had a tendency to in Texas.
At least, that's what I'd imagine, and seems to be their plan.
I agree Chris except probably more like Wilson over Roethlisberger. JM is going to need some elevator shoes to be a qb like Roethlisberger.
I agree Chris except probably more like Wilson over Roethlisberger. JM is going to need some elevator shoes to be a qb like Roethlisberger.
Sure, BR is super hard to take down or get the ball off, JM isn't going to be that. Point was more about keeping plays alive and making things happen.
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The main reason JM moves out of the pocket is because he can't see over the lineman, he's always going to have to roll out.
The main reason JM moves out of the pocket is because he can't see over the lineman, he's always going to have to roll out.
I thought Manziel looked good scrambling against the Jets. He looked much faster out there than last season and did well in getting the maximum yardage downfield before taking a slide (McCown who was brought on to mentor Manziel maybe could learn that part of the game from JM?) . It seems like we are looking for a balance with JM, he is a qb first and not a running back although his running ability is another weapon to use on opponents.
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This team isn't going to win the SB so there is an argument to roll with Johnny first.
McCown gives us the better chance to win now but if Sunday was anything to go by, this team won't win many games in the now.
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This team isn't going to win the SB so there is an argument to roll with Johnny first.
McCown gives us the better chance to win now but if Sunday was anything to go by, this team won't win many games in the now.
This team isn't going to win the SB so there is an argument to roll with Johnny first.
McCown gives us the better chance to win now but if Sunday was anything to go by, this team won't win many games in the now.
This team needs to lose the 'we're going to lose anyway' mentality. 5 years of winning no more than 5 games will instil that in you. A few years of 7-9, 8-8 isn't a terrible thing to break that habit, to elevate the browns from the status of laughing stock.
Putting in Manziel, going 5-11 this year, maybe 6-10 next year, is a recipe for a new GM/HC. Getting some credibility with another near .500 season is a recipe for giving the GM/HC more time, and a platform to build from.
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This team isn't going to win the SB so there is an argument to roll with Johnny first.
McCown gives us the better chance to win now but if Sunday was anything to go by, this team won't win many games in the now.
This team isn't going to win the SB so there is an argument to roll with Johnny first.
McCown gives us the better chance to win now but if Sunday was anything to go by, this team won't win many games in the now.
I don't think you can go by Sunday and I don't think that score is any indication of how bad the team is. Over and over we heard about McCown being the leader of the team on the field and in the locker room and then he goes out in a devastating way early in the game. it seemed like the wheels came off. I think we will know more about this team how they respond this week against the Titans. I think Pettine will have them ready and I would like to see them come out with a chip on their shoulder to prove they are better team than that loss to the Jets. We'll find out soon enough.
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I completely agree with you both, I wasn't advocating it or anything.
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I think McCown is the quarterback right now who gives us the best chance to win so I would like to see him as the starter. I did see the potential in JM last Sunday and I think he can develop into a Russell Wilson type qb.
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JM was so ill-prepared to play in 2014 that he could not help to look better prepared this year. Unfortunately JM 2014 is not the league's QB standard.
He needs to sit and learn behind McCown. That's the posture that a JM who has decided to work at his craft adopted this year. That's the posture that has produced what progress we have seen.
By any objective standard JM is not ready to start.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
JM was so ill-prepared to play in 2014 that he could not help to look better prepared this year. Unfortunately JM 2014 is not the league's QB standard.
He needs to sit and learn behind McCown. That's the posture that a JM who has decided to work at his craft adopted this year. That's the posture that has produced what progress we have seen.
By any objective standard JM is not ready to start.
JM was so ill-prepared to play in 2014 that he could not help to look better prepared this year. Unfortunately JM 2014 is not the league's QB standard.
He needs to sit and learn behind McCown. That's the posture that a JM who has decided to work at his craft adopted this year. That's the posture that has produced what progress we have seen.
By any objective standard JM is not ready to start.
What's the difference if they are going to run an entirely different offense when he's in? And he most certainly wasn't ready to start after sitting out the entire preseason.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
JM was so ill-prepared to play in 2014 that he could not help to look better prepared this year. Unfortunately JM 2014 is not the league's QB standard.
He needs to sit and learn behind McCown. That's the posture that a JM who has decided to work at his craft adopted this year. That's the posture that has produced what progress we have seen.
By any objective standard JM is not ready to start.
JM was so ill-prepared to play in 2014 that he could not help to look better prepared this year. Unfortunately JM 2014 is not the league's QB standard.
He needs to sit and learn behind McCown. That's the posture that a JM who has decided to work at his craft adopted this year. That's the posture that has produced what progress we have seen.
By any objective standard JM is not ready to start.
Agree, to me JM is a rookie, last season was a write off.
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must be nice to have a job where you get paid and decide to do nothing for a year, then come back the next year and expect to be somebody that is respected and trusted by your colleagues.
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JM was so ill-prepared to play in 2014 that he could not help to look better prepared this year. Unfortunately JM 2014 is not the league's QB standard.
He needs to sit and learn behind McCown. That's the posture that a JM who has decided to work at his craft adopted this year. That's the posture that has produced what progress we have seen.
By any objective standard JM is not ready to start.
JM was so ill-prepared to play in 2014 that he could not help to look better prepared this year. Unfortunately JM 2014 is not the league's QB standard.
He needs to sit and learn behind McCown. That's the posture that a JM who has decided to work at his craft adopted this year. That's the posture that has produced what progress we have seen.
By any objective standard JM is not ready to start.
I agree also Tour. I admit I didn't watch too much of Manziel at A & M except the big games like Alabama. I believe I am seeing now out of Manziel some of the things I have heard on this forum from A& M people (who did follow Manziel closely at A & M) about Manziel's competitiveness and abilities. I was one of Manziel's biggest critics last year as I didn't like his attitude and lack of work ethic. He has cleaned that up this year. He may not be ready to start but at least this season when he was forced to start we did not see a repeat performance of the Cincy game. He was much improved. Not there yet but better. I know comparing him to last season is a low bar but I give him credit for what he has been doing and I believe he will continue to improve.
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Like everyone has said, this is basically the rookie year he should have had last year. He'll have a steep learning curve, probably isn't ready just yet, but I'd love to see him take over by about game 9 (assuming we're not in playoff contention), to hopefully get him the game experience he needs to start next year.
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