Oh Boy Here We Go
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Zombo said:
I would describe it as my expecting success from Johnny while his fan club is hoping for success for Johnny, and stacking up the excuses in case it doesn't happen here and now.
War wants to know if I will blow my top if he has a terrible game.
Yes, I will.
Just like if your teenage son carelessly wrecked your car.
You would be furious with him. You would be disappointed in him. But he's yours. And you expect better from him in the future.
If Johnny "wrecks the car" on Sunday, I'd be back in his corner by Thursday or Friday.
I saw some very good things two weeks ago. Playmaking ability. I expect him to win this current cast, just like he did against the Tits.
There was a certain point where I/we knew Quinn didn't have it, McCoy didn't have it, Weeden didn't have it. And it didn't happen after one car wreck. It happened when they continually disappointed us when they should have been getting better.
It's been so long since we have had success, I think we forget to expect it.
I expect Johnny not to disappoint. To come along even better than Carr and Bridgewater. I expect big things from him.
And if it doesn't happen it is not because Gary Barnidge sucks or Cleveland is cursed. It's on him.
It's a tough league. Cleveland is a tough city. We need somebody tough to say "fuck the excuses, I'm winning here, and I'm winning now." I expect that person to be Johnny.
Zombo
Z-you and tour have earned the right to say those things that I was saying last year before being severely disappointed with Johnny alcohol. He wasn't the same player I had come to appreciate. If I said those things now that you are saying, I get written off again as "fanboy" or "Manzealot" and no one takes me seriously. I have been very happy since the day JM went into rehab and even more so when he asked to extend it to 10 weeks. Everything he has done since then have all been steps in the right direction and I understand Pet's reluctance to ask too much too quickly. But you are right. We saw the real Johnny Football at his competitive athletic best when the game was on the line. I got spoiled by that week after week in the college years and have always had faith it would eventually morph into a quality NFL QB. The "It" factor is as real with this kid as it has been with any of the great QB's. Can't teach it and you can't coach it. All Pet has to learn is you have to trust it at some point in every game. Will he make mistakes? Sure. Will the fans allow him to? Well maybe, if he keeps providing those exciting Johnny Football moments they will.
If I said those things now that you are saying, I get written off again as "fanboy" or "Manzealot" and no one takes me seriously.
Sure some would, but you've shown too much objectivity to get lumped back into the zealot crowd.
May have been a couple pre-mature pocket bails vs. TN, but the last, TD pass was the one, obvious JFF moment in that game. Since it came late, it worked and it was in a situation when most of us felt a play was needed, we approve. However, the throw to Benji was not the only choice. It was the maximum risk/reward choice. A first down would have sufficed. I'm pretty sure that's Pet's takeaway.
While I recognize the above, I also recognize that there were a lot more plays in the game when JM turned down the opportunity to go JFF. And that's what will ultimately win me over... and maybe even Pet...
I think Im about ready to see some extended Johnny play too......giving McCown(and more importantly, the team) another week....
Hey...if we lose this week, Id say play offs are out of the picture......so why not?.....put him in and let er rip!!!
Getting there myself, mud... but still depends on the SD game.
The choices are get it out of the way now or guarantee yourself that chicken season in 2016.
I just don't see the binary choice you do.
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This whole thing is depressing.
Maybe not as depressing for me as seeing Johnny so totally fail last year, but still...
It's hard for me to comment since I only saw. highlights of the Raiders game, but I'll try to give my 2 cents.
I was fully on board with McCown starting, and still am, based on one important thing - the team plays well and competes for a playoff spot.
For this team to make the playoffs, it simply CANNOT expect great qb play. This should be obvious - McCown and Manziel simply are not great, and shouldn't be expected to be. For this team to make the playoffs, it must get great defensive play, and great o-line play, because that's where the proven talent is.
For whatever reason, the only game the defense and o-line performed well was the Titan game. This is on Pettine. He must get the most from his best players consistently or the playoffs are out of the question.
IMO, Pettine needs to spell out exactly what his plan is to the team and invite input from players, not to change his mind, but tp open conversation and allow Pettine to get buy-in from the team.
As soon as Pettine sees he's not getting buy-in from the team with McCown at qb, OR it becomes obvious the playoffs are unlikely, he should go with Johnny and see what happens.
IMO, Pettine needs to spell out exactly what his plan is to the team and invite input from players, not to change his mind, but tp open conversation and allow Pettine to get buy-in from the team.
Reasonable post overall, but inviting input without being prepared to act upon it is a very dangerous approach. I've seen it kill morale in segments of a business...
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god i hate the fact that we drafted manziel.
this board has gone to shit ever since they called his name.
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lol. So he hasn't exactly "wrecked this league", but he has wrecked this board.
Nah, mik was a wreck long before JFF showed up.
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Are you all arguing about agreeing on the same thing? That's different.
I would describe it as my expecting success from Johnny while his fan club is hoping for success for Johnny, and stacking up the excuses in case it doesn't happen here and now.
War wants to know if I will blow my top if he has a terrible game.
Yes, I will.
Just like if your teenage son carelessly wrecked your car.
You would be furious with him. You would be disappointed in him. But he's yours. And you expect better from him in the future.
If Johnny "wrecks the car" on Sunday, I'd be back in his corner by Thursday or Friday.
I saw some very good things two weeks ago. Playmaking ability. I expect him to win this current cast, just like he did against the Tits.
There was a certain point where I/we knew Quinn didn't have it, McCoy didn't have it, Weeden didn't have it. And it didn't happen after one car wreck. It happened when they continually disappointed us when they should have been getting better.
It's been so long since we have had success, I think we forget to expect it.
I expect Johnny not to disappoint. To come along even better than Carr and Bridgewater. I expect big things from him.
And if it doesn't happen it is not because Gary Barnidge sucks or Cleveland is cursed. It's on him.
It's a tough league. Cleveland is a tough city. We need somebody tough to say "fuck the excuses, I'm winning here, and I'm winning now." I expect that person to be Johnny.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I would describe it as my expecting success from Johnny while his fan club is hoping for success for Johnny, and stacking up the excuses in case it doesn't happen here and now.
War wants to know if I will blow my top if he has a terrible game.
Yes, I will.
Just like if your teenage son carelessly wrecked your car.
You would be furious with him. You would be disappointed in him. But he's yours. And you expect better from him in the future.
If Johnny "wrecks the car" on Sunday, I'd be back in his corner by Thursday or Friday.
I saw some very good things two weeks ago. Playmaking ability. I expect him to win this current cast, just like he did against the Tits.
There was a certain point where I/we knew Quinn didn't have it, McCoy didn't have it, Weeden didn't have it. And it didn't happen after one car wreck. It happened when they continually disappointed us when they should have been getting better.
It's been so long since we have had success, I think we forget to expect it.
I expect Johnny not to disappoint. To come along even better than Carr and Bridgewater. I expect big things from him.
And if it doesn't happen it is not because Gary Barnidge sucks or Cleveland is cursed. It's on him.
It's a tough league. Cleveland is a tough city. We need somebody tough to say "fuck the excuses, I'm winning here, and I'm winning now." I expect that person to be Johnny.
Zombo
I've read many a post on this board. I have said that I was a Carr
Guy on draft day,but as for Johnny this post is as goof as I have read
How I would adopt our current QB situations to my own! Now that the real
Johnny foosball has ARRIVED lets get on the rollercoaster and put our hands in
The air and enjoy the ride! And hope the photo at the end has us smiling!!! GO BROWNS
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mccown looked fine last week. if the D hadn't given the raiders a 2 touchdown lead at the half we wouldn't even be having this stupid ass discussion.
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mccown looked fine last week. if the D hadn't given the raiders a 2 touchdown lead at the half we wouldn't even be having this stupid ass discussion.
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mccown looked fine last week. if the D hadn't given the raiders a 2 touchdown lead at the half we wouldn't even be having this stupid ass discussion.
mccown looked fine last week. if the D hadn't given the raiders a 2 touchdown lead at the half we wouldn't even be having this stupid ass discussion.
Sorry Mik, but you're truly talking out of your ass on this one.
The first half he was god awful and he's overthrown/underthrown receivers 2-3 times that would have led to big plays or TD's
Mik- glad you think McCown looked fine last week- it's certainly a minority opinion. The fans aren't blind- they saw exactly what they expected out of Josh- a less than thrilling journeyman dud. This wasn't the Seahawks the Browns were playing.
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mik-the first half McCown looked like a rusty 36 y.o. coming back from a head injury. The 2nd half he looked like the player Pet thought he brought in and that is the only reason he gets the start over J-Man.
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Sure. McClown, Gilbert, Farmer, and Pettine. All world class choices.
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If I said those things now that you are saying, I get written off again as "fanboy" or "Manzealot" and no one takes me seriously.
Sure some would, but you've shown too much objectivity to get lumped back into the zealot crowd.
May have been a couple pre-mature pocket bails vs. TN, but the last, TD pass was the one, obvious JFF moment in that game. Since it came late, it worked and it was in a situation when most of us felt a play was needed, we approve. However, the throw to Benji was not the only choice. It was the maximum risk/reward choice. A first down would have sufficed. I'm pretty sure that's Pet's takeaway.
While I recognize the above, I also recognize that there were a lot more plays in the game when JM turned down the opportunity to go JFF. And that's what will ultimately win me over... and maybe even Pet...
I think Im about ready to see some extended Johnny play too......giving McCown(and more importantly, the team) another week....
Hey...if we lose this week, Id say play offs are out of the picture......so why not?.....put him in and let er rip!!!
Getting there myself, mud... but still depends on the SD game.
The choices are get it out of the way now or guarantee yourself that chicken season in 2016.
I just don't see the binary choice you do.
You don't? I guess I just think every rookie quarterback has to get used to the game by playing the game. And except for a couple of guys that first season is problematic.I just don't see the binary choice you do.
~edit and since that will either happen this year or next year and if the coach is on any kind of a deadline to win doing it next year pushes him into a third year of problems~
That's just my general observation, & I freely admit that you know a thousand times as much about the game than I do.
And as with many of these situations I would like to hear why you think otherwise. Seriously.
(and I don't believe that the last two games set anything in stone either way)
WSS
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ugggh.
hiatus time.
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TMZ stands by it's story today.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/09/tmz_stands_by_johnny_manziel_s.html
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It's really not an outrageous story. I can't imagine how some players might prefer one quarterback to the other nor can I imagine that they haven't discussed it out loud. I'll bet there are guys who'd rather have Josh out there too.
Kind of a non-story but that's what sells papers.
WSS
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TMZ stands by it's story today.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/09/tmz_stands_by_johnny_manziel_s.html
TMZ stands by it's story today.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/09/tmz_stands_by_johnny_manziel_s.html
True or not....My feeling on that story is that it's damaging to the team and whoever said it was out of line and doing more harm than good....
ALL locker rooms have varied opinions on a LOT of things.....real pro's keep that shit in the Locker Room and not on TMZ...
So, the team is struggling with the Defense, running game and O line, yet the coach has to deal with questions about TMZ & Johnny supporters all week.....no wonder he is getting short when he's asked about this crap every day...
And, I will qualify that this is NOT directly Johnnys fault, per se......but it is a sign of the shit storm that constantly swirls around him....
Yesterday, Pat Mcmanamon was on WKNR and talked about this.....saying "he" thought our FO was completely fed up with 15 months of dealing with it......(and I think he knows)
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TMZ stands by it's story today.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/09/tmz_stands_by_johnny_manziel_s.html
True or not....My feeling on that story is that it's damaging to the team and whoever said it was out of line and doing more harm than good....
ALL locker rooms have varied opinions on a LOT of things.....real pro's keep that shit in the Locker Room and not on TMZ...
So, the team is struggling with the Defense, running game and O line, yet the coach has to deal with questions about TMZ & Johnny supporters all week.....no wonder he is getting short when he's asked about this crap every day...
And, I will qualify that this is NOT directly Johnnys fault, per se......but it is a sign of the shit storm that constantly swirls around him....
Yesterday, Pat Mcmanamon was on WKNR and talked about this.....saying "he" thought our FO was completely fed up with 15 months of dealing with it......(and I think he knows)
True or not....My feeling on that story is that it's damaging to the team and whoever said it was out of line and doing more harm than good....
ALL locker rooms have varied opinions on a LOT of things.....real pro's keep that shit in the Locker Room and not on TMZ...
So, the team is struggling with the Defense, running game and O line, yet the coach has to deal with questions about TMZ & Johnny supporters all week.....no wonder he is getting short when he's asked about this crap every day...
And, I will qualify that this is NOT directly Johnnys fault, per se......but it is a sign of the shit storm that constantly swirls around him....
Yesterday, Pat Mcmanamon was on WKNR and talked about this.....saying "he" thought our FO was completely fed up with 15 months of dealing with it......(and I think he knows)
And if the Commissioner is able to trace back the signing of Austin to that two year contract to our FO currently on suspension, the Browns will be even deeper in the crapper.
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mccown looked fine last week. if the D hadn't given the raiders a 2 touchdown lead at the half we wouldn't even be having this stupid ass discussion.
mccown looked fine last week. if the D hadn't given the raiders a 2 touchdown lead at the half we wouldn't even be having this stupid ass discussion.
Damn, beat me to it. All this agreement up in here is creeping me out.
McCown looked like we expected him to look. He's not the problem. The defense is what's sinking my battleship.
But not sunk yet. No sirree.
I would like a win though. I don't really care how, or what QB.
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Players going to TMZ shows a lack of leadership and respect for the Head Coach/Organization.
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Just coming from a band standpoint there's always a difference of opinion as to who should do what. One guy thinks it should be a horn solo one guy a piano solo one guy a guitar solo. I bet there are guys in Springsteen's band that thing Stevie Van Zandt should get to put a couple of his songs on a record. But in none of those cases, well hopefully, is anyone actually outraged over the way things are. I would hope that the guy who think Johnny is the best choice will play hard and respect Josh McCown.
If I was Travis Benjamin I'd want Johnny to start. Or Andrew Hawkins. If I was Gary Barnidge I'd probably be happy with Josh.
Joe Thomas said as much when he hinted that the offensive line kind of likes a pocket passer so they didn't have to worry about where the hell the quarterback was going to be.
( probably some of the Steelers fans on this board would rather we had a different moderator, one that didn't fuck with their stupid screen names.
. )WSS
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