2015 O-line Grades: Week 3 – Raiders
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I still haven't watched the game - might have to spike my green tea with vinegar to
get myself mentally toughened up for it.......
actually, just tryin to catch up on all the work after campin with friends for 4 days last week.
Really, really appreciate the analysis - very cool stuff, Tour. Maybe you could do one of these
the day BEFORE the game, so I can watch the game, and know what to look for?
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Where's the hole?
It was in the misread by the QB who didn't see they were bringing 8 in that play, so it was in the head.
I too am surprised at the ratings, especially 1st half. My only explanation is that each negative must have come 1 per play because something stopped our O almost every play. It only takes one player screwing up to mess up a play. So you can get 4 +'s and 1 - and still not go anywhere.
If you have the time could you check a few plays tour to see if that was the case?
lol... just need to add the crystal-ball option to my DVR, cal.
I too am surprised at the ratings, especially 1st half. My only explanation is that each negative must have come 1 per play because something stopped our O almost every play. It only takes one player screwing up to mess up a play. So you can get 4 +'s and 1 - and still not go anywhere.
If you have the time could you check a few plays tour to see if that was the case?
Easy to scan and count the O-line scores... as you can clearly see by this peek at worksheet 1 of 3.
lol... sadly the scan actually looks cleaner than my lined, yellow pad.
Best run example in answer to your question is S4P2. Look at it and you'll see:
JT++ JB++ AM-- JG+ MS+ play should have gone up the middle but Alex getting blown up forced(?) Crow to bounce wide. The play lost 4 yards.
Here are tallies of all 3 sheets...
Plays with all positive scores : 1 + 0 = 01 Deep pass to Gabe (S4P4) overthrown.
Plays with no negative scores: 17+26 = 43 Many due to soft pass rush by tired OAK D late in halves.
Plays with one negative score: 10+15 = 25
Plays with > 1 negative scores: 3 + 3 = 06 actually adds up to 75 plays... on the first try...
Of the 43 "no neg" plays: 12+23 = 35 were passes, only 8 were runs. One of the pass plays yielded a sack... when KM blew up M.Johnson.
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Thanks. Love to see Schwartz's development. You said that these grades gave you optimism about our game this week. I don't see anything notable to foster that in your grades, or is it just because you think the running game failures are more a Crow problem than an OL problem?
Next week I'll join you as A&M is on bye, though not sure if I'll adapt to your system for comparison's sake or stick to my own for comfort's sake. Thanks again.
Thanks. Love to see Schwartz's development. You said that these grades gave you optimism about our game this week. I don't see anything notable to foster that in your grades, or is it just because you think the running game failures are more a Crow problem than an OL problem?
Next week I'll join you as A&M is on bye, though not sure if I'll adapt to your system for comparison's sake or stick to my own for comfort's sake. Thanks again.
Great on the join-in... and by all means stay with whatever you are developing. We can still compare relative ranking for the week. Can even add in PFF's results. I have to admit I am curious to know if PFF is seeing Schwartz's ascendance this year and Mack's struggles. Four weeks in ought to be about right for an initial comparison.
The backs are definitely playing a significant role. They seem to be anticipating rather than reacting when they run... and when they block.
As for my overall optimism... its only in part due to the O-line play. Other factors that I see during the line grading come into play. I keep many of those out of this thread. Plus it is safe to say that my optimism is not exactly overwhelming... more like I am optimistic-ish...
Love reading these but have to admit very surprised, seemed the O line was the biggest problem on offense to me last week.
Join the club... I've quit trying to anticipate the results.
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Thanks for the further breakdown tour.
And I thought you already had one of these:
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I enjoyed reading it too....as always....thanks for that!
In a nutshell, it sounds like the backs are the greater issue with running, than the line is.....though there is room for improvement everywhere....
Gotta say, Ive always been a Mitch supporter and am real happy to see him continuing to play well, while still improving....
In re to your PFF mention.....here's what they have...
Joe Thomas @ +8.5 and ranked 3rd league wide (+3.3, +3.2, +2.0)
John Greco @ + 1.5 and ranked 8th lw (-0.8, +0.1, +2.2)
Mitch Schwartz @ +1.0 and ranked 8th lw (+0.8, +2.2, -2.0) < hmmm for game 3
Alex Mack @ -2.5 and ranked 17th lw (-1.5, -3.1, +2.5)
Joel Bitonio @ -3.4 and ranked 23rd lw (-1.7, -1.9, +0.2)
So Bito and Mack are way down there.....the other 3 near the top.....
Im not too worried....based upon past performance, I think they'll both improve....though a bit worried about Mack and if he's got some lingering injury issues....
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lol... I saw "continuing" in Italics... watch yourself...
Odd to see agreement with PFF in Mitch's week 1 to week 2 direction, but then to diverge weeks 2 to 3... Especially since he saw so much of KM week 3. I thought PFF was big on competition level? Hard to remember a play when Mitch did not see wither Khalil or Aldon Smith.
And while "seeing" does not mean a name player tests his opposite on every play. I try to be aware of Defensive players taking a play off. They all do and it is not that hard to see.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
My football Junkie medicine, thanks Tour. Heard some news on Mack might have a new girlfriend that may give him ties to stay in Ctown? It's got to be something to consider at this point. He looks to be playing with no fire under his ass till someone piss's him off..
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Came across the Football Outsiders' O-line rankings...
Overall they have us 27th in Run-Blocking and 29th in PassPro.
In directional run-blocking our rank by their Adjusted Line Yards measure is:
WideL-27 / LTackle-30 / Middle-12 / RTackle-30 / WideR-19
Our directional percentages are: WL-5 / LT-11 / M-61 / RT-13 / WR-10
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
We are severely underperforming for whatever reason. Maybe because we are too damn predictable.
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I think it's that the defenses know that they can afford to stack eight men in the box,
especially on first down, and dare the qb play to beat them with no star bluechippie wr
to make them pay the price.
Oh, what it would have been, if, instead of Gilbert....
nope.
Gotta stop - does no good.
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Gotta say T, the O line failed my eye test on Sunday. I only watched the game once, live, and I saw a LOS that never seemed to be pushed downfield, and we were lucky if it just stayed neutral. On pass plays, McCown threw from a dirty pocket seemingly all day, on every snap.
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Came across the Football Outsiders' O-line rankings...
Overall they have us 27th in Run-Blocking and 29th in PassPro.
In directional run-blocking our rank by their Adjusted Line Yards measure is:
WideL-27 / LTackle-30 / Middle-12 / RTackle-30 / WideR-19
Our directional percentages are: WL-5 / LT-11 / M-61 / RT-13 / WR-10
Came across the Football Outsiders' O-line rankings...
Overall they have us 27th in Run-Blocking and 29th in PassPro.
In directional run-blocking our rank by their Adjusted Line Yards measure is:
WideL-27 / LTackle-30 / Middle-12 / RTackle-30 / WideR-19
Our directional percentages are: WL-5 / LT-11 / M-61 / RT-13 / WR-10
Guess it just adds to "everybody's got their own numbers" theory
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lol... I saw "continuing" in Italics... watch yourself...
Odd to see agreement with PFF in Mitch's week 1 to week 2 direction, but then to diverge weeks 2 to 3... Especially since he saw so much of KM week 3. I thought PFF was big on competition level? Hard to remember a play when Mitch did not see wither Khalil or Aldon Smith.
And while "seeing" does not mean a name player tests his opposite on every play. I try to be aware of Defensive players taking a play off. They all do and it is not that hard to see.
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Gotta say T, the O line failed my eye test on Sunday. I only watched the game once, live, and I saw a LOS that never seemed to be pushed downfield, and we were lucky if it just stayed neutral. On pass plays, McCown threw from a dirty pocket seemingly all day, on every snap.
Gotta say T, the O line failed my eye test on Sunday. I only watched the game once, live, and I saw a LOS that never seemed to be pushed downfield, and we were lucky if it just stayed neutral. On pass plays, McCown threw from a dirty pocket seemingly all day, on every snap.
No doubt, D, but the only real attempts to move opposing linemen downfield were in short yardage situations. While true that most failed to do so in most of those situations, there weren't that many of those.
As for pockets... yes, there were only a couple perfect ones in which McC could luxuriate. But were a lot more "adequate" ones he could move in and/or step in enough to do his job.
Guess it just adds to "everybody's got their own numbers" theory
Kinda like the man with two watches?
Not going to pretend my watch is better than PFF's, but I'd at least like to understand why in some cases theirs and mine are running in opposite directions while in other cases they show pretty much the same time.
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I would trust your own grades, Tour. Yes, PFF is awesome, but they have almost 1,500 guys to grade every week. Even if there WAS a PFF employee that only did Browns OL, it's not a labor of love like it is for you. "If you want something done right, gotta do it yourself."
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