Connor Cook for QB and Adam Gase for head coach.
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We are in quite a cluster chicken right now, and I don't see a great way out of it. Most people will agree that continuity is paramount to an NFL team's success, and continuity is difficult to attain when your team changes things up every 2 years (sometimes after 1). The problem with this thinking is, what if we really DO have major idiots driving our team? If we keep the same staff around for another year, are we just making our team worse and worse? This is Farmer's first time as a GM, and this is also Pettine's first time as a coach. Do they deserve more than two years to hone their craft? Learn from their mistakes?
Canton Dawg made a valid point the other day, as he often does, and basically said that we kind of followed what the Raiders did, but it didn't work for us. We drafted the young QB (Manziel), we drafted the potential #1 WR (Gordon), and we signed the veteran WR with good hands that can make contested catches (Bowe). I realize Farmer didn't make all of those moves, but you get the point. If Manziel isn't an addict, Gordon isn't a complete idiot, and Bowe is...well...HALF of what we hoped for....then maybe we are the AFC North Raiders. A team with young playmakers, veteran leadership, and rising stock.
But that's not us. We give up a ton of touchdowns, we don't close out halves or quarters, we have too many awful penalties, we have abysmal clock management, and we generally look like a bunch of glue-eating space cadets with no skills, backbones, or talent. *microphone drop*
So we fire Pettine and Farmer...who do we bring in? Who would WANT this job? No qb, no job security, and a history of defecation hitting the ventilation device. Sure, you'd make absurd money for a year or two, but good luck getting another head coaching gig. Adam Gase for head coach? I don't know much about him, but I would have liked to see exactly what makes the poster think it would work, other than he appears to be aggressive and intelligent.
I have no idea what to do with this team. I absolutely HATE changing coaches and general managers, and I detest the negative fallout we receive from the media every time it happens. "Browns screw up again!" "Will they EVER get it right?" "History repeating itself again in Cleveland!"
But at the same time, can anyone on this board really say that we're CLOSE to contending for a wildcard spot? I think the most shocking aspect of our team's futility is just how bad our defense is. Many of us thought "We're just a QB away from being a playoff contender", but now we realize it's so much more than that. Farmer is being raked over the coals, and rightfully so, for his arrogant attitude regarding the importance of WR's. And then he finally drafts one, and Vince Mayle was called by several analysts one of the worst picks in the entire draft.
We're a bad football team, and that's putting it mildly. And how sad is it that Baltimore FINALLY has an awful year, Pittsburgh is down because of injuries, and we STILL can't take advantage of their plight because we are still so terrible. Hell, we're used to having THREE playoff teams in our division, and this was a chance for us to start making some headway. Does anyone really believe the Ravens will have two bad years in a row? That Pittsburgh won't get better while they still have Ben? That Cincy will mysteriously be awful next year? No, because they have the right SYSTEM. They know how to evaluate talent. At the end of the day, they basically KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
In the end, I have no freaking clue what to do. I only know that I love this team, perhaps way more than I should. I want so much to have a franchise to be proud of, to watch a quality product, to finally be able to say to ALL the people that continuously make fun of us...WE'RE FINALLY HERE. But we're not...and we're not close.
We are in quite a cluster chicken right now, and I don't see a great way out of it. Most people will agree that continuity is paramount to an NFL team's success, and continuity is difficult to attain when your team changes things up every 2 years (sometimes after 1). The problem with this thinking is, what if we really DO have major idiots driving our team? If we keep the same staff around for another year, are we just making our team worse and worse? This is Farmer's first time as a GM, and this is also Pettine's first time as a coach. Do they deserve more than two years to hone their craft? Learn from their mistakes?
Canton Dawg made a valid point the other day, as he often does, and basically said that we kind of followed what the Raiders did, but it didn't work for us. We drafted the young QB (Manziel), we drafted the potential #1 WR (Gordon), and we signed the veteran WR with good hands that can make contested catches (Bowe). I realize Farmer didn't make all of those moves, but you get the point. If Manziel isn't an addict, Gordon isn't a complete idiot, and Bowe is...well...HALF of what we hoped for....then maybe we are the AFC North Raiders. A team with young playmakers, veteran leadership, and rising stock.
But that's not us. We give up a ton of touchdowns, we don't close out halves or quarters, we have too many awful penalties, we have abysmal clock management, and we generally look like a bunch of glue-eating space cadets with no skills, backbones, or talent. *microphone drop*
I have no idea what to do with this team.
But at the same time, can anyone on this board really say that we're CLOSE to contending for a wildcard spot? I think the most shocking aspect of our team's futility is just how bad our defense is. Many of us thought "We're just a QB away from being a playoff contender", but now we realize it's so much more than that. Farmer is being raked over the coals, and rightfully so, for his arrogant attitude regarding the importance of WR's. And then he finally drafts one, and Vince Mayle was called by several analysts one of the worst picks in the entire draft.
We're a bad football team, and that's putting it mildly. And how sad is it that Baltimore FINALLY has an awful year, Pittsburgh is down because of injuries, and we STILL can't take advantage of their plight because we are still so terrible. Hell, we're used to having THREE playoff teams in our division, and this was a chance for us to start making some headway. Does anyone really believe the Ravens will have two bad years in a row? That Pittsburgh won't get better while they still have Ben? That Cincy will mysteriously be awful next year? No, because they have the right SYSTEM. They know how to evaluate talent. At the end of the day, they basically KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
In the end, I have no freaking clue what to do. I only know that I love this team, perhaps way more than I should. I want so much to have a franchise to be proud of, to watch a quality product, to finally be able to say to ALL the people that continuously make fun of us...WE'RE FINALLY HERE. But we're not...and we're not close.
This is pretty much how I feel as well. I'm actually shocked that they regressed. I was of the belief our D would be fine, and Shanahan was a problem.
Now, it's clear that Shanahan was fine, and his 30 point (or something like that) presentation to Haslem wasn't far off.
If they fire Pettine, coming off of the heels of Shanahan scathing them, this job of Cle Browns HC becomes toxic. We won't lure anybody, at least any "name" coach to come here.
As far as knowing what to do, we all are armchair QBs, but I think they need to simplify everything. Too many defensive packages. Zone reads on the O line (which worked under Shanahan, not with Filippo's running game). Pettine & Haslam need to suck it up, bring Kosar in here, maybe even Marty (as consultants). Why not? It can't hurt at all, and it's clear Farmer's over his head.
1984- we looked like dog crap. They fired Sam, and Marty took over. He simplified the shit out of everything.Of course, the SB was never attained, but it was the longest string of winning seasons we had since the 60s. Kosar, Schottenheimer were a part of it, & I'm sure they can still help, and Haslam has the cash to pay them.
That's my opinion. Save this franchise for goodness sakes. Don't blow it up, just get help from people who CAN help, want to help.
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Bring in Jim Schwartz
Quit taking my ideas. Their trademarked.
God damn.
Also, there's a lot to like about Cook. What scares me though are is frequent bouts of great inaccuracy.
Quit taking my ideas. Their trademarked.
God damn.
Also, there's a lot to like about Cook. What scares me though are is frequent bouts of great inaccuracy.
Honestly, I see a lot of Jameis Winston (minus off field stuff) in Cook. This is speculation entirely on my end, but just how I saw it with Winston and see it with Cook. The reason his numbers aren't as good as say Mariota is because he's playing at a higher caliber than the team around him. I watch a decent bit of MSU games and so many times I see a pass that's incomplete and think "that's a play that would have been made in the NFL". Same thing went with Jameis- he'd throw into tight windows or timing that was on the WR more than QB, at least IMO.
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It's so hard to even think about fixing this team because we aren't even sure what to address first. We literally need EVERYTHING.
I mean, look at it this way: In 2013, we had 6 pro bowlers, which means we had a good number of elite talent. So with that foundation, it makes sense that we would be able to take our incredible number of first, second, and third round picks to elevate that talent pool. But for some reason, the exact opposite happened. We missed on basically every early pick except Bitonio, and even our allstars are playing poorly. I can't fathom that out of all our premium draft picks, we failed to net more than ONE difference maker, and now we are completely feeling the devastating effects of that.
Take a look at what this team needs:
Strong Safety - Whitner not getting younger, and has anybody been impressed with his play? I like Campbell, but he's young and unproven.
Free Safety - Contract talks have broken down with Gipson and a long term deal does not look likely (maybe tag him?)
Inside Linebacker - This might be a position many don't realize we need, but I think we're desperate for a young stud here. A real difference maker that can get us off the field. I like Dansby, but he's not getting younger either, and looks slow to me (I could be wrong, just an observation).
OLB/Pass Rusher - Anybody like the fact that we're paying Kruger big time bucks and he's not delivering anymore? Is it an off year? Is he dropping back into coverage too much? Other than Kruger, we have nothing to write home about. Too early to grade Orchard, maybe Armonty Bryant is servicable...but anything else?
Defensive Backs - Boy, Haden has NOT looked good this year. Like...at all. NOBODY used to catch td's against him, and now it's open season. Tramon isn't getting younger, and even his play has been slipping. Desir is better than Gilbert, but what is that saying? K'Waun Williams has promise, but he's a consussion away from serious brain damage (ok, maybe not, but he's still had 3 or 4 in less than two years).
Defensive Tackles - Does anybody like what we have? Shelton plays about...what...40% of snaps or something? Anybody been impressed? Too early to tell with him, but god forbid we have a first rounder that knocks our damn socks off.
I'll stop now, because I think everyone gets the point. The point being, we have a serious lack of badasses on offense AND defense. I don't care who you have for a GM, nobody can fix that in one year. What concerns me is how we got WORSE, and not better. Our entire defensive scheme seems just awful. Maybe it's confusing. Maybe it's antiquated. Whatever it is, we can't stop the run, and we can't get to the QB. We are the worst blitzing team in the history of football. Ugh...
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Schwartz is like Bellichick, was a successful coordinator, took a losing team, made the playoffs after a few seasons, success faltered after that playoff appearance, seemed like an asshole, got fired.
Bring in Schwartz.
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Bring in Jim Schwartz
Quit taking my ideas. Their trademarked.
God damn.
Also, there's a lot to like about Cook. What scares me though are is frequent bouts of great inaccuracy.
Also, there's a lot to like about Cook. What scares me though are his frequent bouts of great inaccuracy.
Still? Haven't seen too much of him this year... but in 2014 when he went off the rails, he got his money's worth.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Is Cam Newton still classed as inaccurate?
Is Cam Newton still classed as inaccurate?
From nc YES, but a getting better, with average WR though. His feet & Size our leading him to better choices in the pocket. Most of his inaccurate is high & not catchable by no one. Not a bad thing imo. Conner a much slower Cam running, but reads & eyes down field goes to Conner.
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Is Cam Newton still classed as inaccurate?
Is Cam Newton still classed as inaccurate?
If you believe QBR, he's in the bottom third of NFL QB's this year. Which would lead me to think that QBR is a bullshit rating formula.
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marvin lewis has been with the bengals for more than a decade and he hasn't won a playoff game yet.........
but i'll guarantee half these 'fire' pettine' fans would love to have their record.
whoever is saying fire the coaching staff after 2 years is a Retard.
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Brady's Ball Sack said:
Ever think the problem is a lack of talent? Possibly because of a lack of contintinuity? Maybe you are three players away, ever think about that?
1 - No. Not necessarily.
2 - Yes, certainly.
3 - Sure. Those three are probably QB, ILB, rush end.
Brady's Ball Sack said:
Let the man coach for 6 years, and by then, you will not only be competitive again, but in the playoffs.
Fire him now, and you will be spinning your wheels the same way you have been doing since the Browns fired Sam R., and be stuck in the mud at the bottom.
If we're not competitive by 3 and into the playoffs by 4, he won't make it to 6 - and he shouldn't.
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Still? Haven't seen too much of him this year... but in 2014 when he went off the rails, he got his money's worth.
Yes, still. Consistency is a top tier need for any NFL QB, ultimately I think it might doom Cook.
Is Cam Newton still classed as inaccurate?
Cam, much like Cook, has spurts of inaccurate and late passes. His redeeming grace is improved Oline play, coupled with being a tall fixture in the pocket that's hard to bring down ala Big Ben. He can hold onto the ball a little longer than he should do deliver downfield passes. Has Cam's decision making improved a bit? Yes.
Enough that I'd still take him over Rodgers, Breesy, Brady, Ben etc etc? Nope.
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Is Cam Newton still classed as inaccurate?
If you believe QBR, he's in the bottom third of NFL QB's this year. Which would lead me to think that QBR is a bullshit rating formula.
If you believe QBR, he's in the bottom third of NFL QB's this year. Which would lead me to think that QBR is a bullshit rating formula.
It is a bullshit rating, but Cam also isn't that good.. I would love to have Carolina's defense though..
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It is a bullshit rating, but Cam also isn't that good.. I would love to have Carolina's defense though..
I'd trade most, if not all of our draft picks to have him play QB for the Browns. I'd love to have a guy who "isn't that good" as our QB.
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It is a bullshit rating, but Cam also isn't that good.. I would love to have Carolina's defense though..
I'd trade most, if not all of our draft picks to have him play QB for the Browns. I'd love to have a guy who "isn't that good" as our QB.
I'd trade most, if not all of our draft picks to have him play QB for the Browns. I'd love to have a guy who "isn't that good" as our QB.
No thanks. He barely completes 50% of his passes. We already have QBs that can do that..
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No thanks. He barely completes 50% of his passes. We already have QBs that can do that..
He wins games... we don't have QB's who do that. Also..looking at it closely...you could make a strong case that our WR's are better than what he has to work with. Carolinas TE is legit but the receivers are nobodies.
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cam is a big diva 'kid' qb. his quirky attitude will settle down after he gets snipped.
dude has more talent in his pinky paw (as a qb) than our 3 put together in a time warp and mind-meld.
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No thanks. He barely completes 50% of his passes. We already have QBs that can do that..
He wins games... we don't have QB's who do that. Also..looking at it closely...you could make a strong case that our WR's are better than what he has to work with. Carolinas TE is legit but the receivers are nobodies.
He wins games... we don't have QB's who do that. Also..looking at it closely...you could make a strong case that our WR's are better than what he has to work with. Carolinas TE is legit but the receivers are nobodies.
Teams win games. I can assure you that Carolina isn't winning exclusively because of Cam at QB. Renewed Oline play and turnover margin have been the big differences in the previous season and this season for them.
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He wins games... we don't have QB's who do that. Also..looking at it closely...you could make a strong case that our WR's are better than what he has to work with. Carolinas TE is legit but the receivers are nobodies.
Teams win games. I can assure you that Carolina isn't winning exclusively because of Cam at QB. Renewed Oline play and turnover margin have been the big differences in the previous season and this season for them.
Teams win games. I can assure you that Carolina isn't winning exclusively because of Cam at QB. Renewed Oline play and turnover margin have been the big differences in the previous season and this season for them.
That's not what everyone here has been saying when they say that McCown is a loser because the team isn't winning.
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Brady's Ball Sack (did I just type that?) is absolutely right. Changing coaches, regimes, and structure every year or two has worked out very poorly for us. The problem is, you can't just have continuity and think that's going to solve all of the problems. What if keeping Pettine and Farmer for another couple of years actually damages the Browns MORE than cutting them loose? Obviously nobody has a crystal ball, but if you're Haslam, you're trying to decide what's best for the team. You know that the organization desperately needs continuity, but you also know that keeping the wrong people in place could do a lot of long term damage.
I think what bothers me the most is our entire team strategy hasn't worked. Drafting back to acquire more picks? Fail. Pettine's defensive philosophy? Fail. These aren't just small things here. Can Pettine really learn how to evolve his defense? Can Farmer start to figure out how to identify playmakers? Basically, can our most important personnel figure it all out in another year or maybe two? I dunno...but I would lean towards "No."
Many people believed the Browns were a QB away from being relevant. Not contending, but just being relevant. McCown hasn't set the world on fire, but I would say he's played well enough to win a few more games. What we all started realizing is that we aren't a QB away, and we have a serious lack of studs on this team. On BOTH sides of the ball. So when you look at the Browns "needs" list...does it look any smaller than it did before Farmer took over? Is our coaching any better than it used to be? Do we all remember the numerous clock blunders from Pettine, the personnel screw ups, the insane amount of penalties....is that progress?
I'm just a fan, so I have no clue what to do. I'd LIKE to see some progress being made. I'd LIKE to see us close the season out well, bring Pettine and Farmer back, and have the continuity we desperately need...but if we're as bad as ever, what good does it do to keep them? Somebody smarter than me has the answer...I hope.
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