A Compromise to Change and Continuity
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Dick LeBeau.......at 77 years old he would be better than the pile of shit we have running the defense.
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It's not secret that our team is getting worse, and each week we appear to be losing by more and more points. Mike Pettine has now lost 13-15 I believe, and it's not only the losses, but WHY we're losing that has many fans and analysts beyond concerned. Mike Pettine is a defensive coach that has a terrible defense. One of the biggest reasons for the failure of our franchise is the fact we start over every two years, and sometimes after one season. As a compromise to keeping SOME continuity, how many of you fans would be open to keeping Farmer and Pettine IF Haslam stipulated that Pettine had to bring in a new defensive coordinator?
Regardless of what Pettine and O'Neil say, there is something very wrong with our defensive scheme. The players have said more than once that they feel they are not put into positions to succeed. For example, we're down to our second and third team defensive backs, yet O'Neil continued to play WAY too much Cover Zero (no safety help on deep ball). I forget the exact numbers, but I heard that against Cover Zero, Big Ben was basically perfect for a million yards and two deep touchdowns. Never mind the 140 yards or so in pass interference calls that all came against Cover Zero (I believe).
Could we bring in a proven defensive coordinator to help turn things around quickly? If Haslam opens the check book, which he has done, and throws some big money at someone with a RECENTLY proven scheme...can our defense get better? That way we keep our head coach, we don't start all over, and we let Ray and Pettine continue to build together and learn from their mistakes.
Does anyone have any solid candidates in mind for a quality DC? Sorry Mike, I know O'Neil is your boy, but he's in way over his head. In other words, he completely sucks.
Could we bring in a proven defensive coordinator to help turn things around quickly? If Haslam opens the check book.....
Does anyone have any solid candidates in mind for a quality DC?
Reality is that there aren't just a bunch of "proven" coordinators just sitting around waiting for a call.....and if they are(unemployed), then maybe they aren't very good, right?
The NFL has rigid tampering rules for Coaches, so you cant even "talk" to an employed coach unless his team says its ok....and most wont do that....the ONLY exception is if you are planning to promote an Asst to Head Coach....but that exception does NOT exist for lower level promotions(ala coordinator)....
So, where exactly would we go to get these "proven, qualified" coordinators???
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I know, that's the thing...just where would these qualified coordinators come from? So you either get a washed up retread, or you take a gamble on an up and comer. Whatever it is, we have to make the move. Our entire scheme is flawed, and that's being pointed out to us on a regular basis. I heard or read somewhere that Carson Palmer "couldn't snap the ball fast enough" when he saw our Cover Zero defense, and that just goes to show you that nobody is afraid of what we do, and rightfully so. We obviously don't do Cover Zero all the time or anything, but that's just an example of teams exploiting what we do, and us not having an answer. It's been stated before, but does anyone remember the 3rd and long we had against the Bengals very early in the game? When O'Neil blitzed Campbell AND K'Waun Williams, which left Armonty Bryant covering Marvin Jones? Yeah...dumb.
As far as who is available, we'll have to wait and see who gets fired after the season. There's always people that get cut loose, and the thing about looking for just a coordinator is they usually get cut along with the head coach, regardless of how their side of the ball performed. The more I think about it, the more this scenario just doesn't seem likely. I mean, defense is Pettine's baby, so basically he would be admitting that his entire scheme is a failure, and he doesn't know what he's talking about. Pretty tough to swallow, but in the face of losing his job, perhaps he could stomach it.
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I know, that's the thing...just where would these qualified coordinators come from? So you either get a washed up retread, or you take a gamble on an up and comer. Whatever it is, we have to make the move. Our entire scheme is flawed, and that's being pointed out to us on a regular basis. I heard or read somewhere that Carson Palmer "couldn't snap the ball fast enough" when he saw our Cover Zero defense, and that just goes to show you that nobody is afraid of what we do, and rightfully so. We obviously don't do Cover Zero all the time or anything, but that's just an example of teams exploiting what we do, and us not having an answer. It's been stated before, but does anyone remember the 3rd and long we had against the Bengals very early in the game? When O'Neil blitzed Campbell AND K'Waun Williams, which left Armonty Bryant covering Marvin Jones? Yeah...dumb.
As far as who is available, we'll have to wait and see who gets fired after the season. There's always people that get cut loose, and the thing about looking for just a coordinator is they usually get cut along with the head coach, regardless of how their side of the ball performed. The more I think about it, the more this scenario just doesn't seem likely. I mean, defense is Pettine's baby, so basically he would be admitting that his entire scheme is a failure, and he doesn't know what he's talking about. Pretty tough to swallow, but in the face of losing his job, perhaps he could stomach it.
I know, that's the thing...just where would these qualified coordinators come from? So you either get a washed up retread, or you take a gamble on an up and comer. ...
Our entire scheme is flawed, and that's being pointed out to us on a regular basis..... It's been stated before, but does anyone remember when O'Neil blitzed Campbell AND K'Waun Williams, which left Armonty Bryant covering Marvin Jones? Yeah...dumb.
As far as who is available, we'll have to wait and see who gets fired after the season.
defense is Pettine's baby, so basically he would be admitting that his entire scheme is a failure
Washed up retreads and up and comers are not proven coordinators.....so, lets be clear about that......and change for the sake of change is a bad idea, when there is no "proven" answer available....
And I cant agree the "scheme" is flawed, just because a bunch of fans think it is....I can only agree that our guys aren't executing it nearly as well as the players in NY and BUFF did.....And, with the right people, it IS proven to work and is working right now in other cities...the scheme works.....with the right players....
The Armonty play(which Im already sick of hearing about) is an example of folks picking one play and using it over and over again to try to make some kind of a point about the scheme, when it was really just an opposing team exposing the mismatch(that exists on almost every play, if you know where to look).....
Look...teams play 11 on 11.....and if you go man to man, then every single player is on an island....including your CB's. If you give them help, say sending 2 safeties over the top like you suggest, then you've just left 2 large openings elsewhere that a good QB can exploit(ala Palmer)....so, put the safeties up top and watch them run all over us and din and dunk us to death...(then we can complain about run stopping and getting crushed by the screen).....
The real problem(on the Armonty play, for example) is that many of our players are one dimensional(esp the LB's). They CANT cover, but its their job anyway. Shame on the coaches for asking these guys to do their jobs and not make a million mental errors while they're at it....we cant just offer help to every player who is out manned....so, on any given play....with any team....on any sunday.....there are mismatches on the field and it's upto the players to win their matches and each team to win their mismatch...
So....on that particular blitz....we sent a Safety and a corner, hoping to create a mismatch, and therefore, get a sack...thats what blitzes are(sending an extra man or 2).....and that left Armonty to cover.....and the other team saw that and won the mismatch.....had we gotten the sack?, no one would be talking about that coverage or even be aware of it ftm....and that happens on every blitz. so lets not keep cherry picking the one we got burned on and calling it a bad scheme...its just a freaking blitz, for christ sake..
So.....I guess Id accept another D coordinator, if a QUALITY one is available....but guess what, even with a new Coordinator, we still have the same players being asked to execute and win their matches......and Armonty and Kruger will STILL be incapable of pass coverage(something that all LB's are expected to do).....and blitz packages will still require extra bodies and leave a glaring weakness somewhere on the field....
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Jeremy Pruitt at Georgia will probably be gone once his boss is fired this year. He is only a couple years removed from a national championship as a DC and is from Saban's tree.
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I know, that's the thing...just where would these qualified coordinators come from? So you either get a washed up retread, or you take a gamble on an up and comer. ...
Our entire scheme is flawed, and that's being pointed out to us on a regular basis..... It's been stated before, but does anyone remember when O'Neil blitzed Campbell AND K'Waun Williams, which left Armonty Bryant covering Marvin Jones? Yeah...dumb.
As far as who is available, we'll have to wait and see who gets fired after the season.
defense is Pettine's baby, so basically he would be admitting that his entire scheme is a failure
Washed up retreads and up and comers are not proven coordinators.....so, lets be clear about that......and change for the sake of change is a bad idea, when there is no "proven" answer available....
And I cant agree the "scheme" is flawed, just because a bunch of fans think it is....I can only agree that our guys aren't executing it nearly as well as the players in NY and BUFF did.....And, with the right people, it IS proven to work and is working right now in other cities...the scheme works.....with the right players....
The Armonty play(which Im already sick of hearing about) is an example of folks picking one play and using it over and over again to try to make some kind of a point about the scheme, when it was really just an opposing team exposing the mismatch(that exists on almost every play, if you know where to look).....
Look...teams play 11 on 11.....and if you go man to man, then every single player is on an island....including your CB's. If you give them help, say sending 2 safeties over the top like you suggest, then you've just left 2 large openings elsewhere that a good QB can exploit(ala Palmer)....so, put the safeties up top and watch them run all over us and din and dunk us to death...(then we can complain about run stopping and getting crushed by the screen).....
The real problem(on the Armonty play, for example) is that many of our players are one dimensional(esp the LB's). They CANT cover, but its their job anyway. Shame on the coaches for asking these guys to do their jobs and not make a million mental errors while they're at it....we cant just offer help to every player who is out manned....so, on any given play....with any team....on any sunday.....there are mismatches on the field and it's upto the players to win their matches and each team to win their mismatch...
So....on that particular blitz....we sent a Safety and a corner, hoping to create a mismatch, and therefore, get a sack...thats what blitzes are(sending an extra man or 2).....and that left Armonty to cover.....and the other team saw that and won the mismatch.....had we gotten the sack?, no one would be talking about that coverage or even be aware of it ftm....and that happens on every blitz. so lets not keep cherry picking the one we got burned on and calling it a bad scheme...its just a freaking blitz, for christ sake..
So.....I guess Id accept another D coordinator, if a QUALITY one is available....but guess what, even with a new Coordinator, we still have the same players being asked to execute and win their matches......and Armonty and Kruger will STILL be incapable of pass coverage(something that all LB's are expected to do).....and blitz packages will still require extra bodies and leave a glaring weakness somewhere on the field....
Washed up retreads and up and comers are not proven coordinators.....so, lets be clear about that......and change for the sake of change is a bad idea, when there is no "proven" answer available....
And I cant agree the "scheme" is flawed, just because a bunch of fans think it is....I can only agree that our guys aren't executing it nearly as well as the players in NY and BUFF did.....And, with the right people, it IS proven to work and is working right now in other cities...the scheme works.....with the right players....
The Armonty play(which Im already sick of hearing about) is an example of folks picking one play and using it over and over again to try to make some kind of a point about the scheme, when it was really just an opposing team exposing the mismatch(that exists on almost every play, if you know where to look).....
Look...teams play 11 on 11.....and if you go man to man, then every single player is on an island....including your CB's. If you give them help, say sending 2 safeties over the top like you suggest, then you've just left 2 large openings elsewhere that a good QB can exploit(ala Palmer)....so, put the safeties up top and watch them run all over us and din and dunk us to death...(then we can complain about run stopping and getting crushed by the screen).....
The real problem(on the Armonty play, for example) is that many of our players are one dimensional(esp the LB's). They CANT cover, but its their job anyway. Shame on the coaches for asking these guys to do their jobs and not make a million mental errors while they're at it....we cant just offer help to every player who is out manned....so, on any given play....with any team....on any sunday.....there are mismatches on the field and it's upto the players to win their matches and each team to win their mismatch...
So....on that particular blitz....we sent a Safety and a corner, hoping to create a mismatch, and therefore, get a sack...thats what blitzes are(sending an extra man or 2).....and that left Armonty to cover.....and the other team saw that and won the mismatch.....had we gotten the sack?, no one would be talking about that coverage or even be aware of it ftm....and that happens on every blitz. so lets not keep cherry picking the one we got burned on and calling it a bad scheme...its just a freaking blitz, for christ sake..
So.....I guess Id accept another D coordinator, if a QUALITY one is available....but guess what, even with a new Coordinator, we still have the same players being asked to execute and win their matches......and Armonty and Kruger will STILL be incapable of pass coverage(something that all LB's are expected to do).....and blitz packages will still require extra bodies and leave a glaring weakness somewhere on the field....
I see what you're saying, as there will often be times players are asked to be on islands, or be in coverage the opponent doesn't expect, but we aren't a good blitzing team. In fact, we may be the worst blitzing team I can remember seeing in a while. And sure, if we sacked the QB, we wouldn't be having this conversation, but we have 16 (or so) sacks this season, and I believe 7 or 8 of those came against a rookie QB. We have games where we basically don't even TOUCH the opposition's QB, and that's very frustrating.
And your point about having the same players next year isn't something I totally agree with. We had very similar personnel last season, in fact, almost ALL the same, and we were much better. Yeah, we were awful against the run, but we were pretty good against the pass. So if we have the same players in the same system, why aren't they playing at the same level? Maybe the injuries, but probably because opponents have scouted us to death, and know exactly what the weaknesses are. We aren't adjusting, we aren't playing with discipline, and we simply aren't making plays.
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I know, that's the thing...just where would these qualified coordinators come from? So you either get a washed up retread, or you take a gamble on an up and comer. ...
Our entire scheme is flawed, and that's being pointed out to us on a regular basis..... It's been stated before, but does anyone remember when O'Neil blitzed Campbell AND K'Waun Williams, which left Armonty Bryant covering Marvin Jones? Yeah...dumb.
As far as who is available, we'll have to wait and see who gets fired after the season.
defense is Pettine's baby, so basically he would be admitting that his entire scheme is a failure
Washed up retreads and up and comers are not proven coordinators.....so, lets be clear about that......and change for the sake of change is a bad idea, when there is no "proven" answer available....
And I cant agree the "scheme" is flawed, just because a bunch of fans think it is....I can only agree that our guys aren't executing it nearly as well as the players in NY and BUFF did.....And, with the right people, it IS proven to work and is working right now in other cities...the scheme works.....with the right players....
The Armonty play(which Im already sick of hearing about) is an example of folks picking one play and using it over and over again to try to make some kind of a point about the scheme, when it was really just an opposing team exposing the mismatch(that exists on almost every play, if you know where to look).....
Look...teams play 11 on 11.....and if you go man to man, then every single player is on an island....including your CB's. If you give them help, say sending 2 safeties over the top like you suggest, then you've just left 2 large openings elsewhere that a good QB can exploit(ala Palmer)....so, put the safeties up top and watch them run all over us and din and dunk us to death...(then we can complain about run stopping and getting crushed by the screen).....
The real problem(on the Armonty play, for example) is that many of our players are one dimensional(esp the LB's). They CANT cover, but its their job anyway. Shame on the coaches for asking these guys to do their jobs and not make a million mental errors while they're at it....we cant just offer help to every player who is out manned....so, on any given play....with any team....on any sunday.....there are mismatches on the field and it's upto the players to win their matches and each team to win their mismatch...
So....on that particular blitz....we sent a Safety and a corner, hoping to create a mismatch, and therefore, get a sack...thats what blitzes are(sending an extra man or 2).....and that left Armonty to cover.....and the other team saw that and won the mismatch.....had we gotten the sack?, no one would be talking about that coverage or even be aware of it ftm....and that happens on every blitz. so lets not keep cherry picking the one we got burned on and calling it a bad scheme...its just a freaking blitz, for christ sake..
So.....I guess Id accept another D coordinator, if a QUALITY one is available....but guess what, even with a new Coordinator, we still have the same players being asked to execute and win their matches......and Armonty and Kruger will STILL be incapable of pass coverage(something that all LB's are expected to do).....and blitz packages will still require extra bodies and leave a glaring weakness somewhere on the field....
Washed up retreads and up and comers are not proven coordinators.....so, lets be clear about that......and change for the sake of change is a bad idea, when there is no "proven" answer available....
That's my fear. Anybody we hire is most likely a rookie coach, and we've had plenty of that with Shurmer, Crennell, & Pettine.
Some guys need time to "get it," as a head coaching gig is such an upgrade from coordinator. While I'm not crazy about the slide under Pettine, bringing in another newbie to learn on the job and bring in another philosophy will almost certainly take time to gel. I think most of us don't want to hear and wait that it will take more time to "turn it around."
Pettine was 7-4, beating the Steelers and Bengals along the way. I'm willing to give him more time despite this season being a disaster.
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We keep missing on draft picks while teams drafting behind are having more success. Why was Gilbert inactive and a 6th round pick playing at Pittsburgh?
Farmer needs to draft better.
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I would qualify that. Farmer has to change his attitude about drafting skilled O players early or adios MF. Smurfs are great for getting long yardage, but absolute detriments in the red zone.
I would qualify that. Farmer has to change his attitude about drafting skilled O players early or adios MF. Smurfs are great for getting long yardage, but absolute detriments in the red zone.
I watched PG's video of Gordon's highlights- and it about made me ill. In the Red Zone, with Smurfs, you're taking away jump balls to the corner out of the game plan.
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I know, that's the thing...just where would these qualified coordinators come from? So you either get a washed up retread, or you take a gamble on an up and comer. ...
Our entire scheme is flawed, and that's being pointed out to us on a regular basis..... It's been stated before, but does anyone remember when O'Neil blitzed Campbell AND K'Waun Williams, which left Armonty Bryant covering Marvin Jones? Yeah...dumb.
As far as who is available, we'll have to wait and see who gets fired after the season.
defense is Pettine's baby, so basically he would be admitting that his entire scheme is a failure
Washed up retreads and up and comers are not proven coordinators.....so, lets be clear about that......and change for the sake of change is a bad idea, when there is no "proven" answer available....
And I cant agree the "scheme" is flawed, just because a bunch of fans think it is....I can only agree that our guys aren't executing it nearly as well as the players in NY and BUFF did.....And, with the right people, it IS proven to work and is working right now in other cities...the scheme works.....with the right players....
The Armonty play(which Im already sick of hearing about) is an example of folks picking one play and using it over and over again to try to make some kind of a point about the scheme, when it was really just an opposing team exposing the mismatch(that exists on almost every play, if you know where to look).....
Look...teams play 11 on 11.....and if you go man to man, then every single player is on an island....including your CB's. If you give them help, say sending 2 safeties over the top like you suggest, then you've just left 2 large openings elsewhere that a good QB can exploit(ala Palmer)....so, put the safeties up top and watch them run all over us and din and dunk us to death...(then we can complain about run stopping and getting crushed by the screen).....
The real problem(on the Armonty play, for example) is that many of our players are one dimensional(esp the LB's). They CANT cover, but its their job anyway. Shame on the coaches for asking these guys to do their jobs and not make a million mental errors while they're at it....we cant just offer help to every player who is out manned....so, on any given play....with any team....on any sunday.....there are mismatches on the field and it's upto the players to win their matches and each team to win their mismatch...
So....on that particular blitz....we sent a Safety and a corner, hoping to create a mismatch, and therefore, get a sack...thats what blitzes are(sending an extra man or 2).....and that left Armonty to cover.....and the other team saw that and won the mismatch.....had we gotten the sack?, no one would be talking about that coverage or even be aware of it ftm....and that happens on every blitz. so lets not keep cherry picking the one we got burned on and calling it a bad scheme...its just a freaking blitz, for christ sake..
So.....I guess Id accept another D coordinator, if a QUALITY one is available....but guess what, even with a new Coordinator, we still have the same players being asked to execute and win their matches......and Armonty and Kruger will STILL be incapable of pass coverage(something that all LB's are expected to do).....and blitz packages will still require extra bodies and leave a glaring weakness somewhere on the field....
The Armonty play(which Im already sick of hearing about) is an example of folks picking one play and using it over and over again to try to make some kind of a point about the scheme, when it was really just an opposing team exposing the mismatch(that exists on almost every play, if you know where to look)
It sure does. I was watching the Raiders/Steelers game and during the replay of an Amari Cooper TD, the guy in coverage? None other than Mr Facemask himself, LB Arthur Moats. I can also recall Cleveland LB Scott Fujita unsuccessfully trying to to cover RB Reggie Bush. The mismatches happen frequently, the only time it gets brought to the forefront is when a big play is involved. Good post Mud.
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Dick LeBeau.......at 77 years old he would be better than the pile of shit we have running the defense.
Ummm 77 year old Dick Lebeau in his first year with the Titans has taken their defense from 27th in 2014 to 5th in 2015Dick LeBeau.......at 77 years old he would be better than the pile of shit we have running the defense.
"You see the Rams are still thinking that they are playing Tony Dorsett" -Jim Brown 1978 -
Get Gregg Williams the DC out of St. Louis Rams before they move west. I am so tired of watching his D whack people like they did us. If he gets the right people in the right places he has HC potential. His price cant be bad & knows how to build a Defensive Front that beats the man in front of you.
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Get Gregg Williams the DC out of St. Louis Rams before they move west. I am so tired of watching his D whack people like they did us. If he gets the right people in the right places he has HC potential. His price cant be bad & knows how to build a Defensive Front that beats the man in front of you.
Get Gregg Williams the DC out of St. Louis Rams before they move west. I am so tired of watching his D whack people like they did us. If he gets the right people in the right places he has HC potential. His price cant be bad & knows how to build a Defensive Front that beats the man in front of you.
Having 4 first round draft picks on the DL helps too.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Get Gregg Williams the DC out of St. Louis Rams before they move west. I am so tired of watching his D whack people like they did us. If he gets the right people in the right places he has HC potential. His price cant be bad & knows how to build a Defensive Front that beats the man in front of you.
Having 4 first round draft picks on the DL helps too.
Having 4 first round draft picks on the DL helps too.
Williams no name DB's are taught & know how to whack & cover too. Williams did his job to get all 4 also. Shelton & Dez Bryant is a start. We yuck it up to stumble on a Bosa & a OLB our DB's may not have to cover to long at all. When the problem for 2 seasons has been we can't stop the run, Williams answer has always been Were going 4 up front & were coming after you. I welcome that change.
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I would rather see Pettine stay then Farmer
4 1st round picks and none of them are impact players
They said they wanted to build through the draft
Farmer's drafts have been AWEFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ummm 77 year old Dick Lebeau in his first year with the Titans has taken their defense from 27th in 2014 to 5th in 2015Dick LeBeau.......at 77 years old he would be better than the pile of shit we have running the defense.
Ummm 77 year old Dick Lebeau in his first year with the Titans has taken their defense from 27th in 2014 to 5th in 2015
and they're 2-8. so i guess they shoulda drafted some OL along the way huh? cuz mariota didn't have time to scratch his balls let alone throw any tonite......dumbass.
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Ummm 77 year old Dick Lebeau in his first year with the Titans has taken their defense from 27th in 2014 to 5th in 2015
and they're 2-8. so i guess they shoulda drafted some OL along the way huh? cuz mariota didn't have time to scratch his balls let alone throw any tonite......dumbass.
and they're 2-8. so i guess they shoulda drafted some OL along the way huh? cuz mariota didn't have time to scratch his balls let alone throw any tonite......dumbass.
and he missed some wide open long passes when he did have time to look.
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From what I heard on the Browns Radio Show, nobody from the "Rex Ryan Tree" is really having great defensive success. I mean, the Bills have a pretty good defense, but it's not what many people thought it would be. Mario Williams has voiced his displeasure with the system on multiple occasions, and it primarily has to do with him not being granted the ability to rush the QB as much as he wants to. Pettine's scheme is flawed, and the proof is in the pudding. We have an expensive defense with veteran free agents and high draft picks, yet we yield no results. We were awful against the run last year, and this year I believe we're somehow worse. But the question is, why were we so good against the pass last year, only to be DREADFUL this season? What has changed? Sure, we had some injuries, but what team doesn't?
The most alarming part of all this failure, is the direction our team is going. We used to lose somewhat close games, and now we're just getting our collective asses whipped. Blowouts are not the norm in the NFL. You see a few each week, but seldom do you see one team get their ass handed to them on a platter multiple weeks in a row.
NFL Insider Adam Caplan was on our radio show yesterday, and he was asked about Pettine's future. He said he's definitely on the hot seat, and "something has to change". He didn't give specific details, but he said that it's obvious something has to change due to how poorly the defense is playing. He didn't have any answers as to why we are so bad against the run, and he wasn't a fan of using DL to cover people. He talked about the "Rex Ryan Tree", and how nobody from that group is having a whole lot of defensive success. It was a very informative interview, and I recommend it. He didn't slam our Browns, but he didn't sugarcoat it either.
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