Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Adam schefter reports chip kelly and Philly are on the outs
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
One thing that may come up is whether or not he is in the NFL substance abuse program......and I think there is a very good chance that he is.....
Reading the policy, he meets ALL the criteria for the program. With his college issues and very visible drinking habits, then a public admission followed by rehab.....he "should" be at minimum, stage one in the program.....My guess is he could be stage 2.....we will soon find out....
One of the interesting aspects to the new policy is that you can avoid your first suspension by obtaining "treatment"(ala rehab) for your problem. But continued use of that or ANY substance(including alcohol, ask Josh) will get you fined and or suspended.....
So, I would not be surprised to hear he has an upcoming suspension...4 games?....10 games?.....
And I could be 100% wrong......but if you read the policy....its all there in black and white....
And, before anyone says "we would know"... the fine for leaking any info is $500,000
One thing that may come up is whether or not he is in the NFL substance abuse program......and I think there is a very good chance that he is.....
Reading the policy, he meets ALL the criteria for the program. With his college issues and very visible drinking habits, then a public admission followed by rehab.....he "should" be at minimum, stage one in the program.....My guess is he could be stage 2.....we will soon find out....
One of the interesting aspects to the new policy is that you can avoid your first suspension by obtaining "treatment"(ala rehab) for your problem. But continued use of that or ANY substance(including alcohol, ask Josh) will get you fined and or suspended.....
Interesting speculation...
I thought Josh was under an alcohol prohibition due to a DWI that occurred apart from his "substance" transgressions.
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Adam schefter reports chip kelly and Philly are on the outs
I saw that clip on ESPN, the Eagle fan's want Kelly's ass on a skewer.Adam schefter reports chip kelly and Philly are on the outs
Tough crowd.
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You're basing that assertion on the fact he didn't pass by Jimmey his decision to bench Manziel, which isn't really news. It's the coach's call, it's what boss Haslem hired him to do. Do you want a stoolie for a coach that calls the owner, who's not a football guy, before every major personnel decision? makes no sense bro.
No, I'm basing that assertion on the fact that he has .346 win percentage, AND he just benched Haslam's shiny first round pick without even running it by him first in a season that is lost.
Makes a lot of sense, bro.
No, I'm basing that assertion on the fact that he has .346 win percentage, AND he just benched Haslam's shiny first round pick without even running it by him first in a season that is lost.
Makes a lot of sense, bro.
No it doesn't, the 26th pick in the 1st round isn't that shiny anyway. C"mon you know that. And pettine's win %? Really? I thought you were one of the guys that understood this was gonna take some time. No one is coming in here and winning. You don't shoehorn players into a scheme that doesn't fit them, that's not how you win the NFL. Again, you're one of the smarter football guys here, you know this.
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This is what I wrote in the other thread.
" Well said, mud. One straw too many. I don't know this, but I'm guessing that during his time at A&M, he got away with a lot, much more than was ever reported. His incredible talent made it easy to overlook the probable partying.
Not a new story. It happens all the time. Yet again people like me are saying "if I made millions to play a game, I'd never screw it up". And it might even be true, but not for Johnny. Or dozens, hundreds, thousands of others who have screwed up.
It's depressing that this is likely the end of the Manziel--Browns experiment. I was so hoping that the Browns would grow to love Johnny as he "wrecked the league". Looks like he will forever be another in a long line of failed qb's for Browns fans, and it's his own fault.
I truly believe he has the ability to be a good qb in the League, maybe even great. Sadly, his extracurricular proclivities may prevent us from ever knowing how good he could have been.
Very depressing."
I've been thinking more about this, and i have some questions/observations.
1. Johnny is addicted to the "party", not to alcohol or cocaine... BUT, he is also addicted to competition. Johnny's problems at A&M always coincided with time away from football. This was only mitigated when his opportunity to compete was in peril. So, in actuality, the decision to make him the starter came at the worst possible time - before the bye week. His competion-addiction on hold, the party-addiction kicked in.
2. Now that Pettine has put Johnny at 3rd string, what happens next? Say McCown and Davis play terribly, is Johnny even an option? Say they both get hurt and jphnny goes on a 3-game win streak, then gets filmed doing EXACTLY the same thing he did in Austin? What then?
I ask this because it has to be known now. They can't be taken off guard if it happens.
They've set a bar that may be too high for Johnny to ever realistically reach. This may be the plan, to trade or release him, but if so, they should do it now, before something happens to muddy the waterz even molre.
This whole situation just sucks. I was so psyched to see the Browns Monday. I will still be rooting for them, but I'm gonna be bummed.
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I don't give a fuck about John or his plight. I care that this is just setting us even further behind the ball.
We agree on that, for sure. Problem is, that train started down the track the second the Browns turned in the card that had Johnny Manziel written on it. A bad draft pick (what else is new) and a high one at that (again, what else is new).
We agree on that, for sure. Problem is, that train started down the track the second the Browns turned in the card that had Johnny Manziel written on it. A bad draft pick (what else is new) and a high one at that (again, what else is new).
I agree that it was a bad decision, but not because of Manziel, but because of the marriage of our staff + Manziel.
There are scenarios where Manziel could have been a fantastic pick and turned out just fine. A city with an established, talented QB. A coaching staff that was proven and adept at handling troubled players. A front office with stability. These are places that Manziel could have excelled in.
At the end of the day, the drinking either goes away or it doesn't - it's not going to be changed by the rules that some shitty coach enforces. There have been plenty of examples of players going out during the season and nothing ever coming of it - just go to /r/Browns if you want to see. If Manziel can get wrecked and perform like he did against Pittsburgh, it shouldn't matter.
We're not in a position to enforce morality rules when we currently have almost the worst defense in the entire league and a roster that is, on paper, more talented than a few teams in our conference.
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This is what I wrote in the other thread.
" Well said, mud. One straw too many. I don't know this, but I'm guessing that during his time at A&M, he got away with a lot, much more than was ever reported. His incredible talent made it easy to overlook the probable partying.
Not a new story. It happens all the time. Yet again people like me are saying "if I made millions to play a game, I'd never screw it up". And it might even be true, but not for Johnny. Or dozens, hundreds, thousands of others who have screwed up.
It's depressing that this is likely the end of the Manziel--Browns experiment. I was so hoping that the Browns would grow to love Johnny as he "wrecked the league". Looks like he will forever be another in a long line of failed qb's for Browns fans, and it's his own fault.
I truly believe he has the ability to be a good qb in the League, maybe even great. Sadly, his extracurricular proclivities may prevent us from ever knowing how good he could have been.
Very depressing."
I've been thinking more about this, and i have some questions/observations.
1. Johnny is addicted to the "party", not to alcohol or cocaine... BUT, he is also addicted to competition. Johnny's problems at A&M always coincided with time away from football. This was only mitigated when his opportunity to compete was in peril. So, in actuality, the decision to make him the starter came at the worst possible time - before the bye week. His competion-addiction on hold, the party-addiction kicked in.
2. Now that Pettine has put Johnny at 3rd string, what happens next? Say McCown and Davis play terribly, is Johnny even an option? Say they both get hurt and jphnny goes on a 3-game win streak, then gets filmed doing EXACTLY the same thing he did in Austin? What then?
I ask this because it has to be known now. They can't be taken off guard if it happens.
They've set a bar that may be too high for Johnny to ever realistically reach. This may be the plan, to trade or release him, but if so, they should do it now, before something happens to muddy the waterz even molre.
This whole situation just sucks. I was so psyched to see the Browns Monday. I will still be rooting for them, but I'm gonna be bummed.
Pettine answered 1 questions during his presser, and made a comment that may shed some light on this.2. Now that Pettine has put Johnny at 3rd string, what happens next? Say McCown and Davis play terribly, is Johnny even an option?
Q: Has Johnny taken his last snap at QB for the Browns?
Pettine: "I hope not".
"I won't say that this is a dead end for Johnny, more like a hurdle".
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No, I'm basing that assertion on the fact that he has .346 win percentage, AND he just benched Haslam's shiny first round pick without even running it by him first in a season that is lost.
Makes a lot of sense, bro.
No it doesn't, the 26th pick in the 1st round isn't that shiny anyway. C"mon you know that. And pettine's win %? Really? I thought you were one of the guys that understood this was gonna take some time. No one is coming in here and winning. You don't shoehorn players into a scheme that doesn't fit them, that's not how you win the NFL. Again, you're one of the smarter football guys here, you know this.
No it doesn't, the 26th pick in the 1st round isn't that shiny anyway. C"mon you know that. And pettine's win %? Really? I thought you were one of the guys that understood this was gonna take some time. No one is coming in here and winning. You don't shoehorn players into a scheme that doesn't fit them, that's not how you win the NFL. Again, you're one of the smarter football guys here, you know this.
So how is starting McCown preparing for the future again? And in who's book is 2-14 an improvement?
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@twithersAP: Joe Thomas says #Browns players support Pettine's decision to bench Manziel.
@RuiterWrongFAN: "The QB position is not the reason we're 2-8" - Brian Hartline
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Pettine answered 1 questions during his presser, and made a comment that may shed some light on this.2. Now that Pettine has put Johnny at 3rd string, what happens next? Say McCown and Davis play terribly, is Johnny even an option?
Q: Has Johnny taken his last snap at QB for the Browns?
Pettine: "I hope not".
"I won't say that this is a dead end for Johnny, more like a hurdle".
Pettine answered 1 questions during his presser, and made a comment that may shed some light on this.
Q: Has Johnny taken his last snap at QB for the Browns?
Pettine: "I hope not".
"I won't say that this is a dead end for Johnny, more like a hurdle".
Thanks, CD. That's good to hear. I still wonder what it means, though. Does it mean that Johnny goes back to first string if he avoids drunk bar photos this week? Does he have to compete for the job in practice? Is he third string for the rest of the season?
This is all so "Days of our Lives". I don't expect Pettine to reveal anything, but I am certainly curious. If drunken bar photos prevented Johnny from playing in Aggieland, the greatest Aggie football player ever would have never seen the field.
Maybe that's what he needed. Real consequences for his less-than-scrupulous lifestyle. Maybe, like Stabler and Namath, he should be left alone if he's doing his job and not breaking any laws. Who knows?
It's just a shame that guys like Johnny and Josh Gordon can't curb their seemingly mundane needs and see the bigger picture. Hopefully it's not too late.
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Pet isn't going anywhere, Johnny is.
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Again...its not the photos that's the issue.
Johnny lied to everyone's face when he said he'd relax and not be a distraction. Its about trust and accountability, not drinking or rapping. You must first understand this fundamental fact before you can ask what he needs to do to get back on the field.
He got a huge "promotion", and rewarded his employers by appearing yet again in the tabloids after agreeing to not do just that. Trust....accountability...
When he start following through on his commitments, he'll start earning back that trust. I don't expect it to happen this season, pettines little cliché that trust is lost in buckets, bit regained in drops.
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No it doesn't, the 26th pick in the 1st round isn't that shiny anyway. C"mon you know that. And pettine's win %? Really? I thought you were one of the guys that understood this was gonna take some time. No one is coming in here and winning. You don't shoehorn players into a scheme that doesn't fit them, that's not how you win the NFL. Again, you're one of the smarter football guys here, you know this.
So how is starting McCown preparing for the future again? And in who's book is 2-14 an improvement?
So how is starting McCown preparing for the future again? And in who's book is 2-14 an improvement?
well no, but he'll do for now while the team firesales over the offseason.
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Pettine answered 1 questions during his presser, and made a comment that may shed some light on this.2. Now that Pettine has put Johnny at 3rd string, what happens next? Say McCown and Davis play terribly, is Johnny even an option?
Q: Has Johnny taken his last snap at QB for the Browns?
Pettine: "I hope not".
"I won't say that this is a dead end for Johnny, more like a hurdle".
Pettine answered 1 questions during his presser, and made a comment that may shed some light on this.
Q: Has Johnny taken his last snap at QB for the Browns?
Pettine: "I hope not".
"I won't say that this is a dead end for Johnny, more like a hurdle".
Pettine has to say that. But how can anyone think that Manziel isn't finished in Cleveland? It would be awesome if he wasn't. It would be awesome if he came back next year and took over the team.
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would be most awesome if this was some totally next level ploy to can the season so they don't ruin their draft position with some late season meaningless wins.
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I think Pettine has mishandled Manziel since day 1. WWBBD?-What would Bill Belichek do? He would NEVER have talked about anything "off the field" with Manziel from day 1. He would have never even uttered the words "off the field," and certainly would have never admitted that Manziel may have a weakness...
Right now, Belichek would say something like:
"It's my job to play the guys who give us the best chance to win. As long as you do your job, you play."
Maybe the Owner and GM have been unfair to Pettine from day 1 by trotting him out to handle all the questions about Manziel all this time, but he sure as hell hasn't handled them well. Trying to be too much of a "dad" and not just a football coach... He should leave it up to the owner, GM, and player development coordinator to manage whether or not Manziel is "eligible" to play... based on his off-field stuff. If you're the HC, you have to play him b/c he has looked good, and he might be the QB of the future for your team. To shove him down to 3rd string... not a good "coaching move," BUT a good "Non-enabling" move... unfortunately that is NOT Pettine's job...
Having said all that...
I think there is more to the story than we have heard, and most of us are abreacting b/c we are missing the critical piece of information that probably explains what's happening. I find it hard to believe Haslam would let Manziel sit on a Monday Night Football game without having some ammo to tell his fellow owners when they start complaining about ruining the ratings for that unwatchable game...
I think Pettine has mishandled Manziel since day 1. WWBBD?-What would Bill Belichek do? He would NEVER have talked about anything "off the field" with Manziel from day 1. He would have never even uttered the words "off the field," and certainly would have never admitted that Manziel may have a weakness...
Right now, Belichek would say something like:
"It's my job to play the guys who give us the best chance to win. As long as you do your job, you play."
Maybe the Owner and GM have been unfair to Pettine from day 1 by trotting him out to handle all the questions about Manziel all this time, but he sure as hell hasn't handled them well. Trying to be too much of a "dad" and not just a football coach... He should leave it up to the owner, GM, and player development coordinator to manage whether or not Manziel is "eligible" to play... based on his off-field stuff. If you're the HC, you have to play him b/c he has looked good, and he might be the QB of the future for your team. To shove him down to 3rd string... not a good "coaching move," BUT a good "Non-enabling" move... unfortunately that is NOT Pettine's job...
Having said all that...
I think there is more to the story than we have heard, and most of us are abreacting b/c we are missing the critical piece of information that probably explains what's happening. I find it hard to believe Haslam would let Manziel sit on a Monday Night Football game without having some ammo to tell his fellow owners when they start complaining about ruining the ratings for that unwatchable game...
Belichick would have cut Manziel last year after missing practices, team meetings, and showing up hungover.. Manziel wasn't demoted to 3rd string for just this bye week. It has been 2 years in the making..
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I knew that Manziel would party some during the BYE week, you could tell by the locker room interview just before the break. He said that he was going to do what many other players were going to do, go out and shut it down for a little bit, as it was deserved for all the hard work. He said that he wouldn't do anything that would shame the Browns, that he wouldn't create a distraction... here's the problem, he didn't do anything he said he wouldn't.
Last week they had a sit down interview with Pettine asking who he would like to have a beer with. He answered it and said that he's had many BEERS with LOTS of coaches, many late night forays in drunken stupor(my words) but then chastises Manziel for going to a party, celebrating becoming the starting QB... this is hypocrisy at it's intrinsic sense of the word. The QB may be the leader but the Coach is the General, you can't have a double standard and be respected.
Manziel was not drunk laying on a swan, getting into a brawl or sniffing cocaine during the BYE, he partied and 'relaxed' like he said he would do. He's 22 years old and that's how young people 'unwind' for studying and grinding constantly... If Manziel had done something other than just being himself then what he did what not have been a distraction, the only reason it is, is because he's Manziel.
I have a hard time believing that Pettine would have benched Manziel if video was shown of him drunk and doing country karaoke, but because he was listening and dancing to rap music to enjoy his time off, he is benched.. that is complete bullshit and should cost Pettine his job, he's put our franchise and the good of our young QB's development behind his senseless father figure hyperbole.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
I knew that Manziel would party some during the BYE week, you could tell by the locker room interview just before the break. He said that he was going to do what many other players were going to do, go out and shut it down for a little bit, as it was deserved for all the hard work. He said that he wouldn't do anything that would shame the Browns, that he wouldn't create a distraction... here's the problem, he didn't do anything he said he wouldn't.
Last week they had a sit down interview with Pettine asking who he would like to have a beer with. He answered it and said that he's had many BEERS with LOTS of coaches, many late night forays in drunken stupor(my words) but then chastises Manziel for going to a party, celebrating becoming the starting QB... this is hypocrisy at it's intrinsic sense of the word. The QB may be the leader but the Coach is the General, you can't have a double standard and be respected.
Manziel was not drunk laying on a swan, getting into a brawl or sniffing cocaine during the BYE, he partied and 'relaxed' like he said he would do. He's 22 years old and that's how young people 'unwind' for studying and grinding constantly... If Manziel had done something other than just being himself then what he did what not have been a distraction, the only reason it is, is because he's Manziel.
I have a hard time believing that Pettine would have benched Manziel if video was shown of him drunk and doing country karaoke, but because he was listening and dancing to rap music to enjoy his time off, he is benched.. that is complete bullshit and should cost Pettine his job, he's put our franchise and the good of our young QB's development behind his senseless father figure hyperbole.
I knew that Manziel would party some during the BYE week, you could tell by the locker room interview just before the break. He said that he was going to do what many other players were going to do, go out and shut it down for a little bit, as it was deserved for all the hard work. He said that he wouldn't do anything that would shame the Browns, that he wouldn't create a distraction... here's the problem, he didn't do anything he said he wouldn't.
Last week they had a sit down interview with Pettine asking who he would like to have a beer with. He answered it and said that he's had many BEERS with LOTS of coaches, many late night forays in drunken stupor(my words) but then chastises Manziel for going to a party, celebrating becoming the starting QB... this is hypocrisy at it's intrinsic sense of the word. The QB may be the leader but the Coach is the General, you can't have a double standard and be respected.
Manziel was not drunk laying on a swan, getting into a brawl or sniffing cocaine during the BYE, he partied and 'relaxed' like he said he would do. He's 22 years old and that's how young people 'unwind' for studying and grinding constantly... If Manziel had done something other than just being himself then what he did what not have been a distraction, the only reason it is, is because he's Manziel.
I have a hard time believing that Pettine would have benched Manziel if video was shown of him drunk and doing country karaoke, but because he was listening and dancing to rap music to enjoy his time off, he is benched.. that is complete bullshit and should cost Pettine his job, he's put our franchise and the good of our young QB's development behind his senseless father figure hyperbole.
You seem to me to be a similar type personality as JFF. Which means you are full of the same bullshit as Johnny....and that you probably have the same work ethic as Johnny....that you are probably equally as unprofessional as Johnny......because you are making excuses for him
He has proven unprofessional, dishonest, untrustworthy.
Yes you want to make excuses for him.
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I knew that Manziel would party some during the BYE week, you could tell by the locker room interview just before the break. He said that he was going to do what many other players were going to do, go out and shut it down for a little bit, as it was deserved for all the hard work. He said that he wouldn't do anything that would shame the Browns, that he wouldn't create a distraction... here's the problem, he didn't do anything he said he wouldn't.
Last week they had a sit down interview with Pettine asking who he would like to have a beer with. He answered it and said that he's had many BEERS with LOTS of coaches, many late night forays in drunken stupor(my words) but then chastises Manziel for going to a party, celebrating becoming the starting QB... this is hypocrisy at it's intrinsic sense of the word. The QB may be the leader but the Coach is the General, you can't have a double standard and be respected.
Manziel was not drunk laying on a swan, getting into a brawl or sniffing cocaine during the BYE, he partied and 'relaxed' like he said he would do. He's 22 years old and that's how young people 'unwind' for studying and grinding constantly... If Manziel had done something other than just being himself then what he did what not have been a distraction, the only reason it is, is because he's Manziel.
I have a hard time believing that Pettine would have benched Manziel if video was shown of him drunk and doing country karaoke, but because he was listening and dancing to rap music to enjoy his time off, he is benched.. that is complete bullshit and should cost Pettine his job, he's put our franchise and the good of our young QB's development behind his senseless father figure hyperbole.
I knew that Manziel would party some during the BYE week, you could tell by the locker room interview just before the break. He said that he was going to do what many other players were going to do, go out and shut it down for a little bit, as it was deserved for all the hard work. He said that he wouldn't do anything that would shame the Browns, that he wouldn't create a distraction... here's the problem, he didn't do anything he said he wouldn't.
Last week they had a sit down interview with Pettine asking who he would like to have a beer with. He answered it and said that he's had many BEERS with LOTS of coaches, many late night forays in drunken stupor(my words) but then chastises Manziel for going to a party, celebrating becoming the starting QB... this is hypocrisy at it's intrinsic sense of the word. The QB may be the leader but the Coach is the General, you can't have a double standard and be respected.
Manziel was not drunk laying on a swan, getting into a brawl or sniffing cocaine during the BYE, he partied and 'relaxed' like he said he would do. He's 22 years old and that's how young people 'unwind' for studying and grinding constantly... If Manziel had done something other than just being himself then what he did what not have been a distraction, the only reason it is, is because he's Manziel.
I have a hard time believing that Pettine would have benched Manziel if video was shown of him drunk and doing country karaoke, but because he was listening and dancing to rap music to enjoy his time off, he is benched.. that is complete bullshit and should cost Pettine his job, he's put our franchise and the good of our young QB's development behind his senseless father figure hyperbole.
hey stupid, He admits he is an alcoholic. Hey stupid, he was in rehab that you the taxpayer paid for. Hey dumbo, when you get out of rehab, not only are you not supposed to drink anymore, you are not supposed to hang out with people that do drink, go to bars that you once attended while still drinking and you are supposed to get a sponsor..I'll bet he has no sponsor and hangs with folks that party and goes to the same bars and nightclubs prior to his rehab.
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This scenario was talked about on Sportscenter & Sirius/XM.
If Haslam blows this thing up, what are the chances of JM staying on the roster?
They all agreed that the new regime wouldn't want Manziel on the roster.
This scenario was talked about on Sportscenter & Sirius/XM.
If Haslam blows this thing up, what are the chances of JM staying on the roster?
They all agreed that the new regime wouldn't want Manziel on the roster.
It's pretty fucking obvious now that either manziel or pettine are gone, or maybe even both. Who the fuck knows at this point. I don't even give a shit anymore at this embarrasment. I'm not getting any younger and if this whole thing is blown up, it will take yrs and yrs and yrs to rebuild. Don't think i can hang with another major rebuild.
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