Haslam calls mtg with upper management tonight

Soju

Jimmy needs to fire both Pettine and Farmer, really.

lodilobo

It would be an act of mercy to fire Pettine now. His body language says it all. He's a beaten man, with nowhere to turn....he probably wants out....the sooner the better. While firing him today will help him, I'm not sure what good it will do for the Browns. You really have to wonder with Pettine....no receivers over 4'-11" (exaggerating a little )...and most injured, but he deactivates Bowe and Pryor for the game???...WTF??!! Maybe he's been ordered to lose for the draft pick??...who knows. If Pettine were a real HC, he would be yelling and screaming at these players...trying to get more out of them. He is soft spoken, walks with his head down...he should be really pissed off at his ass. coaches and the players. He needs to go find a nice high school team to coach. We need a young Marty, or Bellichick, or someone that will light a fire under the asses of these freeloading pricks.....imho.

gumby73

@lodilobo said:
We need a young Marty, or Bellichick, or someone that will light a fire under the asses of these freeloading pricks.....imho.

Well Said period. Bellichick taught Saban & Sean Payton just that..

ballpeen

I can see Oneil being axed at this point. Probably should have happened 2-3 games ago.

As for Pettine, I don't really see the point at this time. I guess the only advantage is that Haslam could activly be seeking another coach. As long as Pettine is around, he can't do that. I suppose that Scheiner is putting a few names together in the background, but as long as Pettine is still around, you can't really start to reach out to people. And I would geuss that Scheiner is looking more at GM candidates.

Suomi

@douche-nozzle said:
I'm honestly curious because I've watched it for 35 years here in Cleveland, particularly since coming back to the NFL. What could Haslem do? So many want nothing except to win "now" and that simpy isn't going to happen. To fix this cluster-fuck will take many years and it seems like the majority of Browns fans and media simply wouldn't tolerate that. The media is a joke and the fans are so unrealistic I'm not sure there is anything he could do.

Absolutely correct. Well said.

Browns fans deserve much better. They're not going get it from this squad - either from the players or the coaches. Problem is that this organization won't turn it around any time soon - fans should be prepared for at least another five losing seasons and no playoffs. Are you prepared to wait for that to happen? Are you ready to slog through at least five years of mediocrity, holding out hope for a turnaround?

Sadly, the current and future prospects of this team are, at best, poor. For a proud and loyal fan base that has suffered through the last two decades this is simply unacceptable. In the words of Sweet Brown, "Ain't nobody got time for that".

This team, and its management, deserves to play to an empty house for the remainder of this season. And future seasons. Until the fans get what they deserve: a legitimate, winning NFL team.

darren15

@suomi said:

Absolutely correct. Well said.

Browns fans deserve much better. They're not going get it from this squad - either from the players or the coaches. Problem is that this organization won't turn it around any time soon - fans should be prepared for at least another five losing seasons and no playoffs. Are you prepared to wait for that to happen? Are you ready to slog through at least five years of mediocrity, holding out hope for a turnaround?

Sadly, the current and future prospects of this team are, at best, poor. For a proud and loyal fan base that has suffered through the last two decades this is simply unacceptable. In the words of Sweet Brown, "Ain't nobody got time for that".

This team, and its management, deserves to play to an empty house for the remainder of this season. And future seasons. Until the fans get what they deserve: a legitimate, winning NFL team.

Well tickets for the 49rs game are now less expensive than a big mac meal .....

flyingfooldoug

Just heard it. Haslam did NOT tell Pett that he will finish the season as coach. If not fired this week.... He will now be coaching for his job

The Cysko Kid

@douche-nozzle said:
I'm honestly curious because I've watched it for 35 years here in Cleveland, particularly since coming back to the NFL. What could Haslem do? So many want nothing except to win "now" and that simpy isn't going to happen. To fix this cluster-fuck will take many years and it seems like the majority of Browns fans and media simply wouldn't tolerate that. The media is a joke and the fans are so unrealistic I'm not sure there is anything he could do.

Yes you're correct but in order to start fixing anything you have to start taking steps in the right direction. Have you seen anything this year that indicates that they're doing that?

Unsympathetic

Kuharich is a good-to-great replacement already on the staff as the #2 to Farmer

flyingfooldoug

This bullshit ALL comes from the top. Jimmy wants to run the show like a Looney Tunes cartoon. Maybe hire Eric Cartman then

gftChris

@the-cysko-kid said:
Yes you're correct but in order to start fixing anything you have to start taking steps in the right direction. Have you seen anything this year that indicates that they're doing that?

Agreed. If we'd seen anything resembling progress, most people would have been happy, even if we ended with only 5-6 wins. A top-10 D and a solid running game, losing generally by a score and being competitive, would have been progress.

We've seen not just a step backwards, but a turn and sprint in the other direction - if only our DBs could do the same...

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@d-bone said:

This gave me an actual belly laugh.......... Maybe by '"identical" you meant "they both played on the defensive side of the ball"?

Why don't you look at the stats?

jiggins7919

We can't fire Pettine during the season for the sole reason that we don't have ANYONE on the staff that can take over head coaching duties. Nobody on the staff has that kind of experience, and we'd be firing Pettine just to fire him. Does he deserve blame for this year? Sure he does, but he doesn't deserve all of it.

Look at our roster, and tell me what he's supposed to do with this talent level. At one point during the game, one of the announcers made the comment that two of the Bengals' first or second round players from the last year or two don't even start, and it's not because they suck. It's because their roster is so completely loaded that they can draft for DEPTH. How sick is that? I believe the announcer also said the Bengals have one of the deepest and most complete rosters from top to bottom in the league. Add in the fact that they have multiple years of continuity, and it's not surprise they are good every year.

I read that Farmer has had four first round draft picks, and he has yet to take one that makes an impact on our team. That's almost impossible. The coaches can say what they want to about Shelton "doing what they ask him to do", but the guy hasn't shown me ANYTHING. I watched him specifically against the Bengals and he got his ass whipped multiple times. Cameron Erving? Look, as I've stated before, I'm a diehard FSU fan and an alum, but this guy is getting his ass blown apart on almost EVERY PLAY. I realize he's a rookie, and I also realize that he has the least amount of experience at guard, but holy cow! Geno Adkins is a devastating player, I know this, but he was throwing Erving around so bad yesterday it wasn't funny.

Yes, Pettine deserves blame. How much I don't know because he can only do so much with what he has. Look at who Austin was throwing the ball to. Look at how much time he had. How many times did the middle of the pocket get exploded by the SAME DAMN STUNT play?

We're going to have the number one pick this year, and that's something I find hard to believe. In typical Cleveland fashion, there isn't a consensus #1 guy out there that is going to come in and really makeover this franchise. We have some many talent gaps that one player can't do it all, and even if there WAS the holy grail of QB's, he STILL wouldn't have anyone to throw to, and he wouldn't have a running back. And that's just on offense. Defense is a whole other matter, and we are so talent deprived at OLB it isn't even funny. In short, we're a mess. And there is no quick fix.

Clevfan4life

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

And Erving is being asked to play in the one position he never practiced and is not built for. Move Erving to T and then let's see how bad he is.

he's still going to be bad, you've got to know that right? Do you think he would have fared any better out there at tackle against Michael Johnson? How bout Mario Williams? Those guys would pee on him just as much as Peko and Atkins did.

Mudfly

Im a "dont fire Pettine guy" too.....

I do agree that the coaching is a big part of the problem and there's probably a communication breakdown between the top and the players. ....so the staff needs to be upgraded. Though, Im leaning toward making changes with the position coaches, and maybe coordinators, before I go after Pettine.....who really is just the guy who manages the coaches......

If you look at out position Coaches, they are painfully inexperienced.(just like the guys at the top)...none of them have any NFL experience and most are in new roles here. So, for example, we have a guy coaching our OLB's who played QB in College and has zero NFL coaching experience.....and you know what?.....our OLB's suck and seem lost......and this theme continues.....Our OL coach was thrust into his position because the other one was fired(and drunk) and he has zero NFL experience....he was "supposed" to be an asst, but now has the whole ball of wax, yet he has zero experience.....and, oddly, its the O line and OLB's that are struggling greatly....

So...Id say these types of guys are more likely to be the reasons for poor coaching, than Pettine.....Of course, Pettine is responsible for assembling a staff....and seems to have failed in that respect....but, I also know he had literally no one to pick from. So, the owner or GM really need to consider if Pettine is the problem, of if his staff is.......I get that the mob is lined up with their torches and pitch forks ready to hang someone....Im just hoping they dont string up the wrong guy.....again.....(or too many guys, just to make sure they get the right one)...

I also worry that these "kids" we have as Coaches really arent up to the task of developing new talent....hech, they are rookies themselves and also trying to learn a new job....and anybody learning a new job struggles a bit, so how are they supposed to be teaching, when they are still focused on learning??

So....If Im Haslem.....here's what Im doing...

Step 1, Im getting Pettine to offer an honest evaluation of his staff and then we are going out and getting some REAL NFL coaches to replace the kids....especially on Defense, which has the most glaring Coaching needs in terms of experience..... Im getting a quality LB Coach, RB coach, OL coach, DC and OC.....with experience....no more "Learning as we go".....plus as many other experienced coaches as Jimmys money can buy....

Step 2, Im getting after Farmer about the talent, which is seriously lacking. No coach is gonna win too many games with this team. Not a one. So, there has to be an ultimatum about acquiring talent and getting it properly developed and on to the field....I would also expect better control with the check book, because we have some "less than talented" players making a shit pile of money.....Id be mad to have the highest paid defense, which is nowhere even close to the most talented.....

Step 3....Im getting rid of a lot of dead weight. Right away too. We have some guys who are NOT buying into the system and, by doing this, are hurting the team. And we have some guys who are just a negative drain on everybody and everything associated with the team. Guys like Manziel, Bowe, Gordon, etc have all created massive negativity and bad bad public relations, while bringing us very little on the positive side or on the field....and it's been 100% on Pettine to deal with it....both in having to explain over and over why they suck and why they dont play....having to be their coach AND babysitter......and having to deal with all their issues and problems in the press,,,,,,all while Farmer hides in his office, as if HE wasnt the reason they are here.....

Step 4....Im STILL getting rid of dead weight....in terms of non-performing players.....Time to dump the guys who just arent good. Weve seen enough to know that guys like Mingo, Kruger & Bowe arent worth their paycheck....so get em outta here already.....we need players and these guys arent bringing that. PLUS, some of these guys are not helping the team with their attitudes and probably cause a lot of negative thinking & feelings in the locker room....time to chop ANYBODY who's not 100% in or who plays like shit......

I think this would be a more reasonable approach to fixing some of what ails this team......and honestly believe if they just fire everybody, we will be right back in the exact same position soon enough. No matter who the new coach is, he will have similar problems to Pettine, in assembling his staff.....and, everyone will see, that he will not win with the group we have in there now....

So....if Im firing people....its names like DeLeone, Montgomery, Fleury, Driesbach, Hafley.....and yes, Oneill & Flip are at risk too....though, if their egos would allow, I might just demote those 2 and keep em on staff at positions that are a bit more suitable to their skills and experience....

Anyhow.....I know this will be unpopular and you all are pretty set on hanging somebody.....but hopefully, Haslem doesnt have a torch and is taking a calmer, more reasonable approach to the next step....

gftChris

Mud, I've touched on that before with Montgomery and the missing OL coach, but I didn't realise it was so widespread.

That being said if I remember rightly, Joker Philips, our WR coach, had no experience, yet Benjamin's having a breakout year. More luck than judgement? Benjamin was always going to come good just needed time? Other?

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@clevfan4life said:

he's still going to be bad, you've got to know that right? Do you think he would have fared any better out there at tackle against Michael Johnson? How bout Mario Williams? Those guys would pee on him just as much as Peko and Atkins did.

I think he would have fared SLIGHTLY better against a 267 lb. Michael Johnson, instead of a 305 lb. Geno Atkins or a 325 lb. Domata Peko. Erving's main weakness coming out of Florida State was that he didn't possess the lower body strength needed for an interior line position at the NFL level yet.

He's a rookie playing in a position he barely practiced at and is ill-suited for, going up against two of the better interior defensive linemen in the league. He would have had troubles anywhere you threw him, but throwing him at LG against Atkins and Peko and expecting anything other than struggles was just wishful thinking.

Would he have trouble with Mario Williams? Sure, most right tackles in the league do. So is your main argument that he would have trouble as a rookie against Pro Bowl talent?

cdl15

Erving couldn't stop guys that no one in the league has been able to stop? wtf?? He got dominated by them AFTER they basically beat the shit outta Bitonio and couldn't return? FUCK THAT GUY.

We hold this team to a certain standard. And one of them standards is if we draft you, You had better be probowl talent in 3 starts or you will never be good enough for our juggernaut team.

Mudfly

@gftchris said:

Mud, I've touched on that before with Montgomery and the missing OL coach, but I didn't realise it was so widespread.

That being said if I remember rightly, Joker Philips, our WR coach, had no experience, yet Benjamin's having a breakout year. More luck than judgement? Benjamin was always going to come good just needed time? Other?

They are all inexperienced Chris.....joker too.....

I guess my point is that if people think these guys arent being coached well, then lets take an honest look at who is doing the coaching and not just fire Pettine because he's the guy at the top.....

Doesnt mean that every coach is doing a bad job.....ala Joker......"some" of them HAVE to know what they are doing.....cant be that every single person in this organization is bad.....so, lets determine which ones and fix it.....

If Im looking at position groups and their performances.....Im keying in on the RB's, LB's, O line and D line as groups that are under performing.....and therefore, keying in on those coaches....

But I think the DB's, WR's, TE's and QB''s seem to at least meet their base expectations...so, maybe they are being coached ok.....

So....thats where Id start.....

gftChris

@mudfly said:

They are all inexperienced Chris.....joker too.....

I guess my point is that if people think these guys arent being coached well, then lets take an honest look at who is doing the coaching and not just fire Pettine because he's the guy at the top.....

Doesnt mean that every coach is doing a bad job.....ala Joker......"some" of them HAVE to know what they are doing.....cant be that every single person in this organization is bad.....so, lets determine which ones and fix it.....

Seems we'd do OK sticking with Kevin O'Connell at QB coach, Joker at WR is ok - though his inability to get Bowe engaged is a negative, and Gabriel seems to have taken a step backwards.

On the flip side (lol), Wilbert Montgomery has been coaching since 1997 and our backs look awful between the tackles.

Brian Angelichio, our TE position is somewhere in between, but I guess we can call him a positive, given Barnidge.

Honestly, it doesn't seem like the inexperienced position coaches - Joker, O'Connell - are the problem. OL coach is missing - unfair to expect a rookie to step in at the last minute; and RB coach is the most experienced of the lot.

On the D side, Weaver is our DL coach, and held that position in Buffalo and New York (asst) under Pett. Not super experienced, but not a rookie.

Our LB coach, Chuck Driesbach - I'm assuming is the same as the guy that was at the bills a couple years ago:

Chuck Driesbach enters his first year as an NFL coach after 36 years in the college ranks including five (2007-11) as Assistant Head Coach and Defensive Coordinator at Rice University. He is entering his 37th year of coaching, including 20 years as a defensive coordinator.

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/coaches/driesbach_chuck/4f634514-da81-4a75-82d8-149c9c6d5f57

First year in the NFL...37th year coaching.

Secondary coach, Jeff Hafley looks like a similar (though shorter) story, college coaching experience, not NFL.

I think many of the assistants are rookies or quite inexperienced, which might be contributing to the problem. that's fine if you're Bill Belichick, and you pick out guys like Newsome, Piolo, Lombardi etc who have all gone on to bigger and better things, but that's not going to happen very often. I agree, some experience is needed.