Jonathan Paul Manziel
-
TC, Flip didn't structure the offense last year, he was QB coach. He maybe had a say, but didn't run the show.
TC, Flip didn't structure the offense last year, he was QB coach. He maybe had a say, but didn't run the show.
Right. But he was entirely credited with developing Carr, which is what landed him the job here. What I'm saying is that now that he's an OC, he's shown that he favors structuring the offense around his QB. That's why we're seeing better numbers from McCown and Manziel, while the rest of the offense seems to be in slight disarray.
-
I still think Pettine wants nothing to do with him, while the FO says you will, and like it.
-
Who are his weapons? Outside of Benjamin we have the worst offensive players in the NFL. Who's going to be the play maker? We have Barnidge at thirty playing lights out and Benjamin. Duke Jr. And Crowell stink! We should have kept Turbin and Draugn. So when Johnny starts running for his life out there, Pettine will bench him again. Or tell the reporters at half time I wish he'd stay in the pocket.
There won't be any improvising on Pettine's watch. Look what improvising has done to Russell Wilson!
Bring Back Brownie has a point. Maybe Pettine was waiting for Manziel to do something stupid. But Jon Gruden thinks Manziel was treated unfairly. After all he wasn't doing anything illegal. Holding a bottle in front of a camera on your day off is a judgement call.
There's such a thing as being too critical. They knew what they were getting and drafted him anyway! Now they want him to change into St. John over night. He's 23, talented, cocky but used to be a winner. If they let him go to another team then maybe he will have a chance to prove he's still a winner.
If they keep him, which I doubt, they need to draft some weapons. No matter who plays QB for them next year they lack talent.
I stopped reading at "We should have kept Turbin and Draugn (sic)".
they're playing him to showcase him (if that's possible).
hope he does well enough that jones gives up a decent draft pick.
i'm sure that sunday night meeting went something like this:
haslam: sorry guys i fucked up and made the pick on manziel. do you think we should play him so we at least can get some teams interested in a trade?......cuz he's out of here.
farmer: yes
pettine: ok
I'm sure it went more like this:
Haslam: This is my franchise.
Pettine: I'm not playing Manziel.
Haslam: Get out.
Pettine: Okay, I'll play Manziel.
Farmer [texts Pettine]: Tht wuz a gud choice man
Pettine: Nevermind, I'm not playing Manziel.
Farmer [texts Pettine]: oh sht
Halsam: I'm serious, get the fuck out.
Pettine: Fine, I'll play Manziel.
Haslam: I'm going to St. Maarten, I'll see you fucks next year. Well, maybe not you Mike.
Farmer [texts Pettine]: daaaaaaamn sick burn
Shurmur: Keep battling.
I think you are guessing. You have zero evidence to support a single one of your "insights".
What is objectively apparent is that JM has developed as a QB under Pet and company. The only "holding back" was JM withholding his full effort throughout the 2014 season.
Then came 2015. The effort improved. It showed in an early effort against a mediocre team, but that game also showed performance gaps... as did the 2nd start. Then start #3 finally showed some real progress.
Finally came a benching designed for only one purpose... to develop JM as a person.
It'll be a while before we know how effective that was, but starting Sunday I think we will see it did him no harm as a football player.
What is objectively apparent is that Manziel improved under Flip and O'Connell. That's it.
I think Flip is truly adept at structuring his offense around his quarterback and doing everything possible to help him succeed. We saw it last year in Oakland and we saw it this year with both McCown and Manziel.
It could have been a fluke, but after taking what was essentially a project QB last year in Carr and getting probably the most success from any rookie QB of that class, then getting the year he got from McCown, then getting the performances he got from Manziel, I think it's safe to say that Flip is great for QB development, if anything.
What is objectively apparent is that Manziel improved under Flip and O'Connell.
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
-
Just for the record tex I came up with that independently of anything that was in the onion.
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
And one more time we have no idea of the details.
Speculation? Sure, just like anything you have to offer.
PS I know some alcoholics and a little short stint in Pennsylvania is like two aspirins for cancer.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Just for the record tex I came up with that independently of anything that was in the onion.
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
And one more time we have no idea of the details.
Speculation? Sure, just like anything you have to offer.
PS I know some alcoholics and a little short stint in Pennsylvania is like two aspirins for cancer.
WSS
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
Well,,,,maybe if he was actually arrested for something.....or actually got a dui......
But to enter treatment for no reason?.....or cause TMZ posted a couple pics?
Nope......dont see that at all.......and dont see ANY precedent for it either...
-
Just for the record tex I came up with that independently of anything that was in the onion.
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
And one more time we have no idea of the details.
Speculation? Sure, just like anything you have to offer.
PS I know some alcoholics and a little short stint in Pennsylvania is like two aspirins for cancer.
WSS
Just for the record text I came up with that independently of anything that was in the onion.
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
And one more time we have no idea of the details.
Speculation? Sure, just like anything you have to offer.
PS I know some alcoholics and a little short stint in Pennsylvania is like two aspirins for cancer.
WSS
He was there for almost three months wasn't he?
Seems like it was the entire off season from January up until OTAs.
Not commenting on the why, or the result, but that seems like a healthy stint.
Z
-
What is objectively apparent is that Manziel improved under Flip and O'Connell.
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
I have never once advocated for firing them all. I've been vocal about the opposite. Failure does not equal firesale, we need to find out what the problem areas are and fix those, rather than starting over from scratch.
The problem is game management, ill preparedness, players that don't care anymore and aren't buying into the message, and benching players for high school reasons.
-
I agree JM must be micro managed out of Berea too.
I agree JM must be micro managed out of Berea too.
That would be a mistake. Before he clears his locker JM should have to propose a Self Improvement Plan for management approval.
Zombo said:
Farmer's pick with Jimmy's blessing.
And, unlike TC's narrative, Pet's agreement as well with concerns registered noted from the vetting process.
What is objectively apparent is that Manziel improved under Flip and O'Connell. That's it.
I think Flip is truly adept at structuring his offense around his quarterback and doing everything possible to help him succeed. We saw it last year in Oakland and we saw it this year with both McCown and Manziel.
It could have been a fluke, but after taking what was essentially a project QB last year in Carr and getting probably the most success from any rookie QB of that class, then getting the year he got from McCown, then getting the performances he got from Manziel, I think it's safe to say that Flip is great for QB development, if anything.
I think you can draw the line there if your purpose is to deny Pet for any credit for anything good occurring under him. I've no doubt Flip has added value to the effort... as has O'Connell.
However, I do not see denying Pet's role in setting the stage either in 2014, before Flip arrived, or in 2015, when Pet spent time in the QB room with Flip and Kevin.
-
What is objectively apparent is that Manziel improved under Flip and O'Connell.
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
I don't think you know what objectively means.
And I've never said fire them all. I've said Fire Pettine and O'Neil, because they are bad coaches.
That would be a mistake. Before he clears his locker JM should have to propose a Self Improvement Plan for management approval.
And, unlike TC's narrative, Pet's agreement as well with concerns registered noted from the vetting process.
I think you can draw the line there if your purpose is to deny Pet for any credit for anything good occurring under him. I've no doubt Flip has added value to the effort... as has O'Connell.
However, I do not see denying Pet's role in setting the stage either in 2014, before Flip arrived, or in 2015, when Pet spent time in the QB room with Flip and Kevin.
The one variable that changed was the OC and QB coach. I'm just playing the game you were trying to play, and not attributing anything to anyone that there isn't evidence of.
The facts are that Manziel was awful last year, now he looks better. McCown has been awful almost his entire career, now he looks like he could be a borderline starter for some franchises. And the only changes were adding Flip and O'Connell for the explicit reason of progressing the quarterback.
Anything else past that is just conjecture. We have no way of knowing how much influence Pet has in the QB room, if any at all. But if we're being objective, the facts are that we added Flip and O'Connell, and that Manziel and McCown are having the best seasons of their careers.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
Well,,,,maybe if he was actually arrested for something.....or actually got a dui......
But to enter treatment for no reason?.....or cause TMZ posted a couple pics?
Nope......dont see that at all.......and dont see ANY precedent for it either...
Sure you can see whatever you want. Probably more damaging than a DUI is fucking up because you didn't take your job seriously enough. I figure he's arrogant and probably believed he'd step on the field and kick ass like he's done his whole life. Upon finding outhe (or even just believing it was true) the head coach didn't want him and wasn't going to play him, just said fuck this I'm going to party. At some point maybe by reading the papers or the Sports boards or listening to the radio he realized everybody was really pissed off. I suppose he thought rehab would be a good move as well as working hard on his game. But like I said I don't believe he's an addict.Well,,,,maybe if he was actually arrested for something.....or actually got a dui......
But to enter treatment for no reason?.....or cause TMZ posted a couple pics?
Nope......dont see that at all.......and dont see ANY precedent for it either...
A close friend of mine was just Hospitalized for the DT's.
WSS
-
I can understand the coaches vindictive attitude and I understand his need for some sort of punishment. I also understand what's good or not so good for the franchise. At this point a four-game audition won't really tell us much.
Whoever the quarterback is will be playing with a depleted team held together by spackling compound and bondo.
So far three of the four opponents are fighting for a playoff spot.
You have to wonder about the attitude of Mike or Johnny because both have to realize the more than likely only one of them will be back next year. And they probably hate each other.
I wonder if Mike Pettine, believing he is about to be fired, would sabotage the next four outings?
(I thought the rest of the team might rally around him for the Cincinnati game and give the Bengals a run for their money but...)
Well... what you lack in understanding organization dynamics you make up for in imaginatively ascribing motives. I guess that is consistent with the artistic mind. Pretty big swing to go from thinking we have a coach a "team might rally around" to one that would consider "sabotage".
Only added piece missing from the O is Bito. Until Week 17 Erving won't be seeing a another Atkins-like DT. RB corps is same as has been in weeks. WR corps starts with Benji and Hart, same as it has all year. So why exactly can't the QB be judged now?
Most of the talking heads I have heard agree that 4 games will tell us enough. Their division is around two points: do we really need to see more, and is the look for us or potential trade partners.
I honestly believe if Pet was told to start JM over his objections, that he would decline. Contractually he has roster control. Haslam would have to fire him.
The list of reasons Pet might not be our HC in 2016 does not include "lacks integrity".
I honestly believe if Pet was told to start JM over his objections, that he would decline. Contractually he has roster control. Haslam would have to fire him.
The list of reasons Pet might not be our HC in 2016 does not include "lacks integrity".
Right....I dont think he was told(forced) to start Johnny this week(or ever, probably)....I think its his own choice and decision...
The fact that he met with Jimmy Sunday, then said on Monday that he hadn't decided yet....pretty much, to me at least, was his way of saying Im still making the decisions....
-
WSSWell... what you lack in understanding organization dynamics you make up for in imaginatively ascribing motives. I guess that is consistent with the artistic mind. Pretty big swing to go from thinking we have a coach a "team might rally around" to one that would consider "sabotage".
● My friend, maybe sabotage is too strong a word. But trust me when I say that when it comes to the nuts and bolts of the game, defining the fine points of when and how and what personnel is necessary to run the pistol or the cover two defense and so forth I find your grasp second to none.
But when it comes to the personalities that may or may not be involved in this situation and given the quality of hard evidence we receive from the likes of ESPN Mary Kay or Grossi (nevermind the radio jocks) that my nearly five decades of experience dealing with talented, sometimes arrogant, often stubborn and egocentric personalities afford me a fair amount of insight, which is at the very least as good as anyone's here. Even if it gets a bit exaggerated at times . ●
.
First off in other starter news...
Paztor is getting the start at LG.
In other player news...
Pryor has a good shot at making the active 46.
... when it comes to the personalities that may or may not be involved in this situation and given the quality of hard evidence we receive from the likes of ESPN Mary Kay or Grossi (nevermind the radio jocks) that my nearly five decades of experience dealing with talented, sometimes arrogant, often stubborn and egocentric personalities afford me a fair amount of insight, which is at the very least as good as anyone's here. Even if it gets a bit exaggerated at times
I by no means have the market cornered on ego spotting, but my "Arrogancimeter" is pretty well-honed. And I have little doubt that your vocation has exposed you to more oversized egos than mine did.
Sometime over a few beers we should compare notes... but I warn you, notes from MKC carry precious little weight with me...
-
First off in other starter news...
Paztor is getting the start at LG.
In other player news...
Pryor has a good shot at making the active 46.
... when it comes to the personalities that may or may not be involved in this situation and given the quality of hard evidence we receive from the likes of ESPN Mary Kay or Grossi (nevermind the radio jocks) that my nearly five decades of experience dealing with talented, sometimes arrogant, often stubborn and egocentric personalities afford me a fair amount of insight, which is at the very least as good as anyone's here. Even if it gets a bit exaggerated at times
I by no means have the market cornered on ego spotting, but my "Arrogancimeter" is pretty well-honed. And I have little doubt that your vocation has exposed you to more oversized egos than mine did.
Sometime over a few beers we should compare notes... but I warn you, notes from MKC carry precious little weight with me...
First off in other starter news...
Paztor is getting the start at LG.
In other player news...
Pryor has a good shot at making the active 46.
I by no means have the market cornered on ego spotting, but my "Arrogancimeter" is pretty well-honed. And I have little doubt that your vocation has exposed you to more oversized egos than mine did.
Sometime over a few beers we should compare notes... but I warn you, notes from MKC carry precious little weight with me...
Buddy I would relish that opportunity and don't give a flying fuck if we ever mention football! Like politics when the subject is so confining we tend to forget there's an entire world of cool shit to talk about.
As long as there's a good quality IPA involved.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
First off in other starter news...
Paztor is getting the start at LG.
In other player news...
Pryor has a good shot at making the active 46.
... when it comes to the personalities that may or may not be involved in this situation and given the quality of hard evidence we receive from the likes of ESPN Mary Kay or Grossi (nevermind the radio jocks) that my nearly five decades of experience dealing with talented, sometimes arrogant, often stubborn and egocentric personalities afford me a fair amount of insight, which is at the very least as good as anyone's here. Even if it gets a bit exaggerated at times
I by no means have the market cornered on ego spotting, but my "Arrogancimeter" is pretty well-honed. And I have little doubt that your vocation has exposed you to more oversized egos than mine did.
Sometime over a few beers we should compare notes... but I warn you, notes from MKC carry precious little weight with me...
First off in other starter news...
Paztor is getting the start at LG.
Are we feeling better about this one by telling ourselves that Cam Erving "wasn't playing his natural position"?
Zombo
--I'm sure if a Tackle got hurt, he'd be awesome
-
And I bet you'd agree with this statement:
I can't imagine that two men with the ability to make or break each other's career and each seeing the other as a roadblock to his goal wouldn't just fucking hate each other.
WSS
-
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
I don't think you know what objectively means.
And I've never said fire them all. I've said Fire Pettine and O'Neil, because they are bad coaches.
That would be a mistake. Before he clears his locker JM should have to propose a Self Improvement Plan for management approval.
And, unlike TC's narrative, Pet's agreement as well with concerns registered noted from the vetting process.
I think you can draw the line there if your purpose is to deny Pet for any credit for anything good occurring under him. I've no doubt Flip has added value to the effort... as has O'Connell.
However, I do not see denying Pet's role in setting the stage either in 2014, before Flip arrived, or in 2015, when Pet spent time in the QB room with Flip and Kevin.
The one variable that changed was the OC and QB coach. I'm just playing the game you were trying to play, and not attributing anything to anyone that there isn't evidence of.
The facts are that Manziel was awful last year, now he looks better. McCown has been awful almost his entire career, now he looks like he could be a borderline starter for some franchises. And the only changes were adding Flip and O'Connell for the explicit reason of progressing the quarterback.
Anything else past that is just conjecture. We have no way of knowing how much influence Pet has in the QB room, if any at all. But if we're being objective, the facts are that we added Flip and O'Connell, and that Manziel and McCown are having the best seasons of their careers.
The one variable that changed was the OC and QB coach.
Not true, TC. McCown came in as did Davis later. Both were positive role models... although Davis' semi-moneysign made me wonder.
And I am not willing to ignore the shift in Pet's emphasis from Defense in 2014 to Offense in 2015. Specifically in the latter case into the QB room, which is on the record. I am not willing to lay off the simultaneous decline in the D with the rise of the Offense to coincidence.
If Pet did nothing more than establish his rookie OC's authority in that room, then he needs to be credited with doing so. This I know from my career, when a senior manager championed a kid added to his staff and insured my new peers would pull with me... something a couple would do less than enthusiastically.
And as a codicil to my on-going pledge, if I ever do the semi-moneysign, you get $5k.
-
First off in other starter news...
Paztor is getting the start at LG.
In other player news...
Pryor has a good shot at making the active 46.
I by no means have the market cornered on ego spotting, but my "Arrogancimeter" is pretty well-honed. And I have little doubt that your vocation has exposed you to more oversized egos than mine did.
Sometime over a few beers we should compare notes... but I warn you, notes from MKC carry precious little weight with me...
Buddy I would relish that opportunity and don't give a flying fuck if we ever mention football! Like politics when the subject is so confining we tend to forget there's an entire world of cool shit to talk about.
As long as there's a good quality IPA involved.
WSS
lol... there's a organizational exercise where 3 or more teams are set, and the only way to maximize the reward total for all involved, i.e., the organization, is for each team to win slightly less than the rules allow.
If Jimmy would just send his plane to pick me up...
Buddy I would relish that opportunity and don't give a flying fuck if we ever mention football!
We could always talk music... I play a mean stereo...
-
I still think Pettine wants nothing to do with him, while the FO says you will, and like it.
-
Man, Manziel is the guy. I just hope that he really still wants to be a Brown after his contract is up. I would hate to have found that guy that could stabilize the position that has been spinning so fast since 99. Maybe an unstoppable force takes such a polarizing captivating presence that we have found to stabilize it...
He's human, but his fight and desire to win on gamedays are something extraordinary. If everyone played with his heart we would never be beaten. He reminds me of Cribbs or Vickers.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain-
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login