Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Just for the record tex I came up with that independently of anything that was in the onion.
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
And one more time we have no idea of the details.
Speculation? Sure, just like anything you have to offer.
PS I know some alcoholics and a little short stint in Pennsylvania is like two aspirins for cancer.
WSS
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
Well,,,,maybe if he was actually arrested for something.....or actually got a dui......
But to enter treatment for no reason?.....or cause TMZ posted a couple pics?
Nope......dont see that at all.......and dont see ANY precedent for it either...
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Just for the record tex I came up with that independently of anything that was in the onion.
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
And one more time we have no idea of the details.
Speculation? Sure, just like anything you have to offer.
PS I know some alcoholics and a little short stint in Pennsylvania is like two aspirins for cancer.
WSS
Just for the record text I came up with that independently of anything that was in the onion.
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
And one more time we have no idea of the details.
Speculation? Sure, just like anything you have to offer.
PS I know some alcoholics and a little short stint in Pennsylvania is like two aspirins for cancer.
WSS
He was there for almost three months wasn't he?
Seems like it was the entire off season from January up until OTAs.
Not commenting on the why, or the result, but that seems like a healthy stint.
Z
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What is objectively apparent is that Manziel improved under Flip and O'Connell.
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
I have never once advocated for firing them all. I've been vocal about the opposite. Failure does not equal firesale, we need to find out what the problem areas are and fix those, rather than starting over from scratch.
The problem is game management, ill preparedness, players that don't care anymore and aren't buying into the message, and benching players for high school reasons.
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I agree JM must be micro managed out of Berea too.
I agree JM must be micro managed out of Berea too.
That would be a mistake. Before he clears his locker JM should have to propose a Self Improvement Plan for management approval.
Zombo said:
Farmer's pick with Jimmy's blessing.
And, unlike TC's narrative, Pet's agreement as well with concerns registered noted from the vetting process.
What is objectively apparent is that Manziel improved under Flip and O'Connell. That's it.
I think Flip is truly adept at structuring his offense around his quarterback and doing everything possible to help him succeed. We saw it last year in Oakland and we saw it this year with both McCown and Manziel.
It could have been a fluke, but after taking what was essentially a project QB last year in Carr and getting probably the most success from any rookie QB of that class, then getting the year he got from McCown, then getting the performances he got from Manziel, I think it's safe to say that Flip is great for QB development, if anything.
I think you can draw the line there if your purpose is to deny Pet for any credit for anything good occurring under him. I've no doubt Flip has added value to the effort... as has O'Connell.
However, I do not see denying Pet's role in setting the stage either in 2014, before Flip arrived, or in 2015, when Pet spent time in the QB room with Flip and Kevin.
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What is objectively apparent is that Manziel improved under Flip and O'Connell.
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
I don't think you know what objectively means.
And I've never said fire them all. I've said Fire Pettine and O'Neil, because they are bad coaches.
That would be a mistake. Before he clears his locker JM should have to propose a Self Improvement Plan for management approval.
And, unlike TC's narrative, Pet's agreement as well with concerns registered noted from the vetting process.
I think you can draw the line there if your purpose is to deny Pet for any credit for anything good occurring under him. I've no doubt Flip has added value to the effort... as has O'Connell.
However, I do not see denying Pet's role in setting the stage either in 2014, before Flip arrived, or in 2015, when Pet spent time in the QB room with Flip and Kevin.
The one variable that changed was the OC and QB coach. I'm just playing the game you were trying to play, and not attributing anything to anyone that there isn't evidence of.
The facts are that Manziel was awful last year, now he looks better. McCown has been awful almost his entire career, now he looks like he could be a borderline starter for some franchises. And the only changes were adding Flip and O'Connell for the explicit reason of progressing the quarterback.
Anything else past that is just conjecture. We have no way of knowing how much influence Pet has in the QB room, if any at all. But if we're being objective, the facts are that we added Flip and O'Connell, and that Manziel and McCown are having the best seasons of their careers.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
And mud, yes for show.
Like checking in to AA immediately after being busted for DUI. Or enrolling in a drug treatment program right after being arrested for possession.
Well,,,,maybe if he was actually arrested for something.....or actually got a dui......
But to enter treatment for no reason?.....or cause TMZ posted a couple pics?
Nope......dont see that at all.......and dont see ANY precedent for it either...
Sure you can see whatever you want. Probably more damaging than a DUI is fucking up because you didn't take your job seriously enough. I figure he's arrogant and probably believed he'd step on the field and kick ass like he's done his whole life. Upon finding outhe (or even just believing it was true) the head coach didn't want him and wasn't going to play him, just said fuck this I'm going to party. At some point maybe by reading the papers or the Sports boards or listening to the radio he realized everybody was really pissed off. I suppose he thought rehab would be a good move as well as working hard on his game. But like I said I don't believe he's an addict.Well,,,,maybe if he was actually arrested for something.....or actually got a dui......
But to enter treatment for no reason?.....or cause TMZ posted a couple pics?
Nope......dont see that at all.......and dont see ANY precedent for it either...
A close friend of mine was just Hospitalized for the DT's.
WSS
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I can understand the coaches vindictive attitude and I understand his need for some sort of punishment. I also understand what's good or not so good for the franchise. At this point a four-game audition won't really tell us much.
Whoever the quarterback is will be playing with a depleted team held together by spackling compound and bondo.
So far three of the four opponents are fighting for a playoff spot.
You have to wonder about the attitude of Mike or Johnny because both have to realize the more than likely only one of them will be back next year. And they probably hate each other.
I wonder if Mike Pettine, believing he is about to be fired, would sabotage the next four outings?
(I thought the rest of the team might rally around him for the Cincinnati game and give the Bengals a run for their money but...)
Well... what you lack in understanding organization dynamics you make up for in imaginatively ascribing motives. I guess that is consistent with the artistic mind. Pretty big swing to go from thinking we have a coach a "team might rally around" to one that would consider "sabotage".
Only added piece missing from the O is Bito. Until Week 17 Erving won't be seeing a another Atkins-like DT. RB corps is same as has been in weeks. WR corps starts with Benji and Hart, same as it has all year. So why exactly can't the QB be judged now?
Most of the talking heads I have heard agree that 4 games will tell us enough. Their division is around two points: do we really need to see more, and is the look for us or potential trade partners.
I honestly believe if Pet was told to start JM over his objections, that he would decline. Contractually he has roster control. Haslam would have to fire him.
The list of reasons Pet might not be our HC in 2016 does not include "lacks integrity".
I honestly believe if Pet was told to start JM over his objections, that he would decline. Contractually he has roster control. Haslam would have to fire him.
The list of reasons Pet might not be our HC in 2016 does not include "lacks integrity".
Right....I dont think he was told(forced) to start Johnny this week(or ever, probably)....I think its his own choice and decision...
The fact that he met with Jimmy Sunday, then said on Monday that he hadn't decided yet....pretty much, to me at least, was his way of saying Im still making the decisions....
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WSSWell... what you lack in understanding organization dynamics you make up for in imaginatively ascribing motives. I guess that is consistent with the artistic mind. Pretty big swing to go from thinking we have a coach a "team might rally around" to one that would consider "sabotage".
● My friend, maybe sabotage is too strong a word. But trust me when I say that when it comes to the nuts and bolts of the game, defining the fine points of when and how and what personnel is necessary to run the pistol or the cover two defense and so forth I find your grasp second to none.
But when it comes to the personalities that may or may not be involved in this situation and given the quality of hard evidence we receive from the likes of ESPN Mary Kay or Grossi (nevermind the radio jocks) that my nearly five decades of experience dealing with talented, sometimes arrogant, often stubborn and egocentric personalities afford me a fair amount of insight, which is at the very least as good as anyone's here. Even if it gets a bit exaggerated at times . ●
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First off in other starter news...
Paztor is getting the start at LG.
In other player news...
Pryor has a good shot at making the active 46.
... when it comes to the personalities that may or may not be involved in this situation and given the quality of hard evidence we receive from the likes of ESPN Mary Kay or Grossi (nevermind the radio jocks) that my nearly five decades of experience dealing with talented, sometimes arrogant, often stubborn and egocentric personalities afford me a fair amount of insight, which is at the very least as good as anyone's here. Even if it gets a bit exaggerated at times
I by no means have the market cornered on ego spotting, but my "Arrogancimeter" is pretty well-honed. And I have little doubt that your vocation has exposed you to more oversized egos than mine did.
Sometime over a few beers we should compare notes... but I warn you, notes from MKC carry precious little weight with me...
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First off in other starter news...
Paztor is getting the start at LG.
In other player news...
Pryor has a good shot at making the active 46.
... when it comes to the personalities that may or may not be involved in this situation and given the quality of hard evidence we receive from the likes of ESPN Mary Kay or Grossi (nevermind the radio jocks) that my nearly five decades of experience dealing with talented, sometimes arrogant, often stubborn and egocentric personalities afford me a fair amount of insight, which is at the very least as good as anyone's here. Even if it gets a bit exaggerated at times
I by no means have the market cornered on ego spotting, but my "Arrogancimeter" is pretty well-honed. And I have little doubt that your vocation has exposed you to more oversized egos than mine did.
Sometime over a few beers we should compare notes... but I warn you, notes from MKC carry precious little weight with me...
First off in other starter news...
Paztor is getting the start at LG.
In other player news...
Pryor has a good shot at making the active 46.
I by no means have the market cornered on ego spotting, but my "Arrogancimeter" is pretty well-honed. And I have little doubt that your vocation has exposed you to more oversized egos than mine did.
Sometime over a few beers we should compare notes... but I warn you, notes from MKC carry precious little weight with me...
Buddy I would relish that opportunity and don't give a flying fuck if we ever mention football! Like politics when the subject is so confining we tend to forget there's an entire world of cool shit to talk about.
As long as there's a good quality IPA involved.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
First off in other starter news...
Paztor is getting the start at LG.
In other player news...
Pryor has a good shot at making the active 46.
... when it comes to the personalities that may or may not be involved in this situation and given the quality of hard evidence we receive from the likes of ESPN Mary Kay or Grossi (nevermind the radio jocks) that my nearly five decades of experience dealing with talented, sometimes arrogant, often stubborn and egocentric personalities afford me a fair amount of insight, which is at the very least as good as anyone's here. Even if it gets a bit exaggerated at times
I by no means have the market cornered on ego spotting, but my "Arrogancimeter" is pretty well-honed. And I have little doubt that your vocation has exposed you to more oversized egos than mine did.
Sometime over a few beers we should compare notes... but I warn you, notes from MKC carry precious little weight with me...
First off in other starter news...
Paztor is getting the start at LG.
Are we feeling better about this one by telling ourselves that Cam Erving "wasn't playing his natural position"?
Zombo
--I'm sure if a Tackle got hurt, he'd be awesome
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And I bet you'd agree with this statement:
I can't imagine that two men with the ability to make or break each other's career and each seeing the other as a roadblock to his goal wouldn't just fucking hate each other.
WSS
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Or he improved simply because he sobered up and started trying.....
Are you suggesting he gave the same effort this year as last?......if so, thats not very objective.....
Its a little weird that you are crediting "coaching" with his improvement, while driving the train to fire em all......
I don't think you know what objectively means.
And I've never said fire them all. I've said Fire Pettine and O'Neil, because they are bad coaches.
That would be a mistake. Before he clears his locker JM should have to propose a Self Improvement Plan for management approval.
And, unlike TC's narrative, Pet's agreement as well with concerns registered noted from the vetting process.
I think you can draw the line there if your purpose is to deny Pet for any credit for anything good occurring under him. I've no doubt Flip has added value to the effort... as has O'Connell.
However, I do not see denying Pet's role in setting the stage either in 2014, before Flip arrived, or in 2015, when Pet spent time in the QB room with Flip and Kevin.
The one variable that changed was the OC and QB coach. I'm just playing the game you were trying to play, and not attributing anything to anyone that there isn't evidence of.
The facts are that Manziel was awful last year, now he looks better. McCown has been awful almost his entire career, now he looks like he could be a borderline starter for some franchises. And the only changes were adding Flip and O'Connell for the explicit reason of progressing the quarterback.
Anything else past that is just conjecture. We have no way of knowing how much influence Pet has in the QB room, if any at all. But if we're being objective, the facts are that we added Flip and O'Connell, and that Manziel and McCown are having the best seasons of their careers.
The one variable that changed was the OC and QB coach.
Not true, TC. McCown came in as did Davis later. Both were positive role models... although Davis' semi-moneysign made me wonder.
And I am not willing to ignore the shift in Pet's emphasis from Defense in 2014 to Offense in 2015. Specifically in the latter case into the QB room, which is on the record. I am not willing to lay off the simultaneous decline in the D with the rise of the Offense to coincidence.
If Pet did nothing more than establish his rookie OC's authority in that room, then he needs to be credited with doing so. This I know from my career, when a senior manager championed a kid added to his staff and insured my new peers would pull with me... something a couple would do less than enthusiastically.
And as a codicil to my on-going pledge, if I ever do the semi-moneysign, you get $5k.
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First off in other starter news...
Paztor is getting the start at LG.
In other player news...
Pryor has a good shot at making the active 46.
I by no means have the market cornered on ego spotting, but my "Arrogancimeter" is pretty well-honed. And I have little doubt that your vocation has exposed you to more oversized egos than mine did.
Sometime over a few beers we should compare notes... but I warn you, notes from MKC carry precious little weight with me...
Buddy I would relish that opportunity and don't give a flying fuck if we ever mention football! Like politics when the subject is so confining we tend to forget there's an entire world of cool shit to talk about.
As long as there's a good quality IPA involved.
WSS
lol... there's a organizational exercise where 3 or more teams are set, and the only way to maximize the reward total for all involved, i.e., the organization, is for each team to win slightly less than the rules allow.
If Jimmy would just send his plane to pick me up...
Buddy I would relish that opportunity and don't give a flying fuck if we ever mention football!
We could always talk music... I play a mean stereo...
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I still think Pettine wants nothing to do with him, while the FO says you will, and like it.
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Man, Manziel is the guy. I just hope that he really still wants to be a Brown after his contract is up. I would hate to have found that guy that could stabilize the position that has been spinning so fast since 99. Maybe an unstoppable force takes such a polarizing captivating presence that we have found to stabilize it...
He's human, but his fight and desire to win on gamedays are something extraordinary. If everyone played with his heart we would never be beaten. He reminds me of Cribbs or Vickers.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
Man, Manziel is the guy. I just hope that he really still wants to be a Brown after his contract is up. I would hate to have found that guy that could stabilize the position that has been spinning so fast since 99. Maybe an unstoppable force takes such a polarizing captivating presence that we have found to stabilize it...
He's human, but his fight and desire to win on gamedays are something extraordinary. If everyone played with his heart we would never be beaten. He reminds me of Cribbs or Vickers.
Man, Manziel is the guy. I just hope that he really still wants to be a Brown after his contract is up. I would hate to have found that guy that could stabilize the position that has been spinning so fast since 99. Maybe an unstoppable force takes such a polarizing captivating presence that we have found to stabilize it...
He's human, but his fight and desire to win on gamedays are something extraordinary. If everyone played with his heart we would never be beaten. He reminds me of Cribbs or Vickers.
Po i love ya man but i'm dumbfounded by some of your posts. cribbs was great until his #s declined and they added WR to his repertoire. vickers was great as well as a blocker BUT you do know that QB is the most important position on the field and if you don't have the gumption, the leadership and the skills (both mental and physical), then you just don't have it and will end up like mccoy and weeden and quinn and.........
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VesnaKociper said:
I think Manziel blows.... BUT........... he has to be given a consistent chance to perform. Pettine is a jackoff. If Manziel wants to get drunk and get laid, it's his business. As long as he can play football, who cares? Give the kid a shot with no black cloud over his shoulder. Who the fuck among any of us would perform well like that? Pettine strieks me as a closet homosexual cocksucker......... Seriously, what kind of a man gets vindictive because another man is living it up and getting pussy? I think it would be good if Pettine went to a concert in Paris, and let us all say a prayer of hope. Seriously, the guys is garbage.
Exactly.
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maybe it'd be an accordion concert and you'd be the headliner. this time they aim for the stage.
oh wait! there is no such thing as accordion concerts.......... forgot.
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Erving is starting to look like another one of Farmers first round flops.Zombo said:
Are we feeling better about this one by telling ourselves that Cam Erving "wasn't playing his natural position"?
Zombo
--I'm sure if a Tackle got hurt, he'd be awesome
At least the kid owns up to it...
"I played like shit so I'm not starting" - Cam Erving #Browns
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney
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