A 4-12 team is a 4-12 team.....
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Losing Sheard really pissed me off, and watching him have another solid game the other night drove me insane. Man, do we need people like him or what? I don't remember the exact circumstances of his departure, so I'm not really sure if we could've even resigned him. Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but there were many fans and analysts that weren't happy about him leaving.
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Both of these teams had some heartbreaking close losses/couldn't finish.
2013 it was New England (ugh ... still hurts) and Jax games.
But take a look at this year's close losses and let me know if it changes your perception of this team:
SD 30 Browns 27 ... Chargers missing game-winning FG, Browns called offsides, Charger get to kick again from shorter distance, and win. EVIDENCE SHOWS BROWNS WERE NOT OFFSIDES McCown 356 yds and a rating of 119. Time of possession: Browns 34:19 To 24:14
Den 26 Browns 23 OT ... Browns intercept Manning 3 times, including one in overtime in Browns territory,but then go backward featuring Robert Turbin running around end against Bronco defense.. This one is on us ... but we should have won it.
Ravens 33 Browns 27 ... Browns engineer comeback, line up for winnng FG and it is blocked, bounces right to the ravens, and they return it all the way for a TD with tim expired. EVIDENCE SHOWS RAVENS WERE LINED UP OFFSIDES.
So we are three plays from 6-7. If we were 6-7 right now, with all of the injuries (McCown, Hawk, Gabe, Bito, Haden, Gipson, etc.) against a tough schedule in a tough division, does it change your perspective of this team?
Does it make you look at Pettine differently ... grinding at 6-7 with roster holes?
How bout Farmer? Still missing on the big picks but finding some promising gems.
McCown? I think most of us respect his job, but for those hate him becuase of his record, he is 4-4 as a Brown instead of 1-7 in this scenario.
Just something to consider.
Here is how I would describe my relationship with Mike Pettine: I only hate him on Sundays.
I like the way he handles the roster. I like the way he handles/handled the Brat Pack from last year (Gilbert, Johnny, West). I like the way he talks in his pressers. He comes off as honest, thoughtful, dedicated, committed and forthright.
But when I see him on Sundays standing there, unable to manage a clock, unable to stop a team from running on us, getting gutted by the Bungles twice in year two, losing close games that were so winnable ... I want to kick him in the teeth.
But if I had to choose one to keep, Pet of Farmer, I would keep Pet. I doubt it ends up that way though.
Zombo
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Mud, one thing I'd change is making this year's Schwartz better than Chud's schwartz, and this year's Robertson better than Chud's Robertson. To say both guys are the same therefore played at the same level is wrong, both are much better players than they were.
That might be two things, I guess.
Mud, one thing I'd change is making this year's Schwartz better than Chud's schwartz, and this year's Robertson better than Chud's Robertson. To say both guys are the same therefore played at the same level is wrong, both are much better players than they were.
Yeah, I could definitely agree with that....didnt really want to get too into it with this guy or that....as the primary point was to show no serious upgrades happened anywhere....just small incremental stuff....And that some big drop offs like Gordon, Mack or Sheard happened, with no comparable or better replacements.. ...
So....in the end......my question is simply how much better is this team than that 4-12 team?.....
Zombo said:
Both of these teams had some heartbreaking close losses/couldn't finish.
But take a look at this year's close losses and let me know if it changes your perception of this team:
So we are three plays from 6-7. If we were 6-7 right now, with all of the injuries (McCown, Hawk, Gabe, Bito, Haden, Gipson, etc.) against a tough schedule in a tough division, does it change your perspective of this team?
Just something to consider.
But if I had to choose one to keep, Pet of Farmer, I would keep Pet. I doubt it ends up that way though.
Zombo
I think we are kind of in the same boat...maybe?......as I agree with you on some of those wins that got snatched away.....and if you factor in the loss of our pass D, then it really hits home.....
Plus....like you did here....we can take a walk back to last season and see we won a few that we were kinda lucky to win and that coulda shoulda been losses.....and to me, some of those games really showed toughness late, the ability to adjust at the half and a team willing to fight to the end.....all of which came off as good coaching......
.....like the record comeback against Tennessee ......or our last second victories over NO and Atl.....
So....like you said, with a few plays that go the other way, we could be 6-7 right now........and if a few plays went the other way last year, we could have just as easily been 4-12.....
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Jackson is a leader for the Colts, TJ Ward has added to Denvers dominance, Sheard is playing exceptionally well and a difference maker in New England
We lost,our chemistry letting these guys walk. They were young and had a lot of upside. Don't understand Farmer one bit.
Jackson is a leader for the Colts, TJ Ward has added to Denvers dominance, Sheard is playing exceptionally well and a difference maker in New England
We lost,our chemistry letting these guys walk. They were young and had a lot of upside. Don't understand Farmer one bit.
The Browns lost "chemistry" when their entire defensive line left: Sheard, Rubin, Taylor, Kitchen, Winn.
But, that said, that group didn't make anyone forget the Fearsome Foursome or the Purple People Eaters.
The kids we have now could turn out better...with time....and proper coaching. (which they have not gotten to this point)
And,yes, DQwell was a good leader....but he was not a good tackler....unless you are talking 8-10 yards downfield.
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Jackson is a leader for the Colts, TJ Ward has added to Denvers dominance, Sheard is playing exceptionally well and a difference maker in New England
We lost,our chemistry letting these guys walk. They were young and had a lot of upside. Don't understand Farmer one bit.
The Browns lost "chemistry" when their entire defensive line left: Sheard, Rubin, Taylor, Kitchen, Winn.
But, that said, that group didn't make anyone forget the Fearsome Foursome or the Purple People Eaters.
The kids we have now could turn out better...with time....and proper coaching. (which they have not gotten to this point)
And,yes, DQwell was a good leader....but he was not a good tackler....unless you are talking 8-10 yards downfield.
And,yes, DQwell was a good leader....but he was not a good tackler....
Well, he has a hell of a lot of tackles for being "not a good tackler", considering that he's approaching top 10 all time right now with 1100 + tackles.......
If he plays a couple more years, he has a good chance to finish as one of the TOP 5 tacklers in NFL history....
But, I do get your point.....they weren't "good" tackles......ha!
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Chud had a better defensive personnel in my opinion. I recall that being a pretty good year for our guys and when we thought we could emerge into an elite secondary with a couple more pieces.
But really, they were both pretty bad teams.
If we can get the 2013 Gordon, Haden, Mack, Gipson to get back into form in 2016 things look a lot better for us than they do otherwise.
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If a tackle happens 5 yards further up the field than it should have, is it still a good tackle?
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Zombo that's my go to take on any Browns season.
Any time the team plays well enough to win and is robbed by such a tiny twist of fate it's infuriating.
And as much as I don't agree with what I think Mike Pettine's shortcomings might be, if I were Jimmy I keep the staff in place for another year. As a matter of fact I'd make that announcement today.
Next season we should face a slightly easier schedule and add one more year to the team familiarizing themselves with whatever system is in place.
He gives us another 4 and 12 or 5 and 11 season, fire him with no regret.
WSS
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Chud had a better defensive personnel in my opinion. I recall that being a pretty good year for our guys and when we thought we could emerge into an elite secondary with a couple more pieces.
But really, they were both pretty bad teams.
If we can get the 2013 Gordon, Haden, Mack, Gipson to get back into form in 2016 things look a lot better for us than they do otherwise.
If we can get the 2013 Gordon, Haden, Mack, Gipson to get back into form in 2016 things look a lot better for us than they do otherwise.
Im with you 100%.....
And who ever gets to Coach this team next year "should" have a better chance at winning, with Gordon and the DB's back healthy....plus players like Bito, Johnny, Shelton, Kirksey and Orchard will be another year developed (IE..better).....and, if resigned, Id expect a stronger season from Gipson and Mack, who will be completely healed from those leg injuries....
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Can you give some insight on Erving? Is it because he's playing out of position. There are teams that would kill to have him. What's the future for him?I do think we have improved some of the depth and we have some youth that might "someday" become top players....just hasnt happend yet.....
Next year Id expect Orchard & Duke to be everyday starters......but, cant think of any other new players(from '14-'15) that look ready to be everyday players....and cant think of ANY that Id expect to be Pro-Bowl caliber stars...(maybe Bito)....
Desir, Gaines, Erving, Crow, Kirksey, Cooper, Telfer, M. Johnson, Ekpre Olomu, Gilbert, Manziel and the rest are completely unproven and, right now, look like possible role players or average NFL starters at best....
But dont see any future stars that are obvious.....
Can you give some insight on Erving? Is it because he's playing out of position. There are teams that would kill to have him. What's the future for him?
I can give you my opinion... Erving is a "tweener"... not built for the inside, not athletic enough for the outside. In time, however, he should get stronger and he will benefit from a swap to Center where either he can get help more readily or more second-level assignments.
VesnaKociper said:
Now, let me get this straight......... he drafts players with credentials, that have performed at a very high level, THEN, when they come here they are shit..........and THAT is Farmer's fault?
Every GM misses... some more than others... some with higher picks than others.
The Browns lost "chemistry" when their entire defensive line left: Sheard, Rubin, Taylor, Kitchen, Winn.
I wonder what the price of these missing pieces would add to our league high payroll?
Aside: Knew where Sheard, Rubin and Winn are. Was not sure about Big Phil and Kitchen. Phil is still out, but worked out for the Vikes a couple days ago. Kit appeared in one game for Detroit and was released at some point, but he has just signed with the Pats.
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