Pettine: Russell Wilson not among top tier QB's
-
Hook, line, sinker... and borderline incoherent...
- What does Shanny in ATL have to do with us?
- Why shouldn't an OL drafted in Rnd 1 to play Center be given the chance to play OG when the opening occurs there?
Pom poms for winning 3 of our last 18 games might be your definition of coherent. I'm just used to reading much better things from you than this. Usually a team reflecting good coaching isn't in the midst of a 7 game losing streak where 5 of the last 7 losses had us forfeiting over 30 points a game in the middle of the 2nd season of a coaching regime. I was hoping to see progress of defensive guys playing faster vrs the point of attack in season #2 of Pett's defense in lieu of watching paralysis by over-analysis. It's also fascinating to see Armonty Bryant covering a WR like Boldin all the while I'm thanking God the opponent's QB is only Blaine Gabbert. We've only shown good sic em, sock em and sack em when we went up against 2 teams we're still competing with for the first overall pick in 2016. Your model of coherence calls this Pettine taking us in the right direction? God bless ya!
And what does Shanny have to do with things today? Okay, I'll pretend he was never brought up when Atlanta got out to something like a 5-1 start and hints of what FO interference handcuffed Poor Mikey with. Cinderella had another early midnight and the QB play after midnight looks just as ugly this year for Shanny as it did last year. To be honest, I think we've gotten more out of our QB position than Atlanta has given the circumstances (one area I have zero to complain about from the coaching staff).
And just because a Tackle turned Center problem-solved a team in the ACC doesn't mean the same guy can join an NFL division that sent everybody but Cleveland to the post season - and easily change to OG. He was never really a natural Center but there's only so many opponents in the ACC that could expose that. At the NFL level, he's getting tossed like a salad and you're telling me our coaching staff is grooming him for his ideal place up against guys born with better leverage and power? I think we're looking at a backup tackle rather than someone wired best for bending to take on shorter powerhouses that get up under him and remove his base/legs. Is an Okie Drill that overwhelming for our coaching staff? It can tell you a lot about a linemen in terms of: how well he bends, his pad height out of stance, whether he has a tendency to over extend from keeping his feet too close together (making it real easy for the defender to toss him off to 1 side), detecting bad habits like coming off the ball with the head down, not using a cadence to his advantage in terms of being first to contact. You can pretty much learn who is going to need a sling shot and who is ready to take care of themselves in a world emphasizing Darwin's laws and physics. Maybe in the process, this drill can help our defensive guys like Danny Shelton remember how important pad height can be to winning trench warfare. I'd like to think film is a nice educational tool as well; but I have yet to see evidence of a lot of learning taking place even from an Academic All American like Danny Shelton. I'm going to hold off on prematurely calling that a bad pick because his flaws look like they can be corrected.
This isn't about who writes the most adorable essay on behalf of popular opinion inventoried - it's about understanding that winning only 3 of our last 18 games doesn't represent progress to the extent it does hold a Head Coach in his second season more accountable than it's just all just Ray Farmer's fault. You give Mike so much credit for his honesty while someone else is giving him credit for taking all the blame - and yet how often does he clarify the design of this defense we're gagging on is Rex Ryan's with Pettine Jr's wrinkles and Pettine Sr's gray hairs while his soph DC gets all the credit for 100% of its shortcomings. He's also not taking any credit for the distraction caused by his choice of Andy Moeller as our oline coach per the history in tact and the inevitable outcome. At least one of our alcoholism stories was kept church-mouse quiet in-house while the other continues to be Mike's biggest distraction to winning allegedly. What part of me is supposed to trust anything he says when he's clarifying in a presser he has a terrific working relationship with Ray Farmer; and "I didn't see any problem with me granting Johnny permission to go to Las Vegas after he's exceeded our expectations on and off the field thus far." It's like he's giving a pyromaniac a box of matches 1 day and as soon as it all goes up in smoke - do you all see what Poor Mike has to work with here? His actions don't support his lip service.
To be honest, I think we've gotten more out of our QB position than Atlanta has given the circumstances (one area I have zero to complain about from the coaching staff).
He was never really a natural Center but there's only so many opponents in the ACC that could expose that. At the NFL level, he's getting tossed like a salad and you're telling me our coaching staff is grooming him for his ideal place up against guys born with better leverage and power? I think we're looking at a backup tackle rather than someone wired best for bending to take on shorter powerhouses that get up under him and remove his base/legs.
This isn't about who writes the most adorable essay on behalf of popular opinion inventoried - it's about understanding that winning only 3 of our last 18 games doesn't represent progress to the extent it does hold a Head Coach in his second season more accountable than it's just all just Ray Farmer's fault. You give Mike so much credit for his honesty while someone else is giving him credit for taking all the blame - and yet how often does he clarify the design of this defense we're gagging on is Rex Ryan's with Pettine Jr's wrinkles and Pettine Sr's gray hairs while his soph DC gets all the credit for 100% of its shortcomings. He's also not taking any credit for the distraction caused by his choice of Andy Moeller as our oline coach per the history in tact and the inevitable outcome. At least one of our alcoholism stories was kept church-mouse quiet in-house while the other continues to be Mike's biggest distraction to winning allegedly.
What part of me is supposed to trust anything he says when he's clarifying in a presser he has a terrific working relationship with Ray Farmer; and "I didn't see any problem with me granting Johnny permission to go to Las Vegas after he's exceeded our expectations on and off the field thus far."
Sorry if I fell short, I'm limiting my time here. My question list was a genuine response and they weren't essay questions. Treated as such you might have addressed them all, but I'll work with what I got. Not that it'll be easy when my basic disagreement is with your conviction that Pet has lied, but somehow I get saddled with his coaching record... be that as it may.
You really need to get your quotes right...
Manziel, who took primarily second-team reps Wednesday behind Brian Hoyer instead of third-team behind Hoyer and Tyler Thigpen like he did last week, can take comfort in the fact that coach Mike Pettine doesn't understand all the fuss either.
"Personally, I think it's overblown,'' said Pettine. "More is made of it than it should be. If maybe he had gone somewhere else (it would have drawn less attention) but it's a difficult situation. I think wherever he goes, there's going to be issues.''
Manziel, who looked more comfortable going through his progressions and in one team drill hit Josh Gordon with a 30-yard strike on a corner route, informed Pettine of his weekend plans ahead of time and received the blessing of his coach.
"My advice to him was have fun,'' said Pettine. "He's a young guy. He's done everything that we've asked. The playbook has not been an issue for him. It's something that I know a big deal was made of it [publically], but internally, we have an expectation for all of our players outside of the building to act a certain way, and it's really a non-issue.
"Just like anybody else, he's a man, and we're going to treat our guys like that until they prove that they need to be treated otherwise."
Pettine isn't concerned that Manziel spraying champagne around a club will cast him or the Browns in a bad light.
"We have a saying in the NFL: as long as it doesn't affect your job....I'm not going to micromanage our players outside of the building,'' Pettine said. "What gets put out there, we don't have control over. He didn't do anything illegal. To me, it's a non-issue."
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/05/browns_johnny_manziel_on_vegas.htmlAnd timing is everything. You do realize that your prize quote is from May, 2014??? That it is pre-rehab??? That any knowledge of JM alcoholism would have had to come from scouting?
I see no parallel with Moeller, who had a DUI in 2011 and then nothing until the 2015 flare up which was dealt with openly and quickly.
On Erving... We agree he suffers from a lack of fundamentals, was an average OT prospect and is not physically suited to play inside (where he was clearly drafted to play). So I simply do not see how you find a path to hanging any part of him around Pet's neck.
I've put blame for the D's performance on Pet.
I've questioned an apparent lack of adapting his scheme.
But rather than resort to voluminous waving of unrelated, anecdotal tidbits that somehow are believed to demonstrate lying, I followed a path to root cause blazed by Mud.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
To be honest, I think we've gotten more out of our QB position than Atlanta has given the circumstances (one area I have zero to complain about from the coaching staff).
He was never really a natural Center but there's only so many opponents in the ACC that could expose that. At the NFL level, he's getting tossed like a salad and you're telling me our coaching staff is grooming him for his ideal place up against guys born with better leverage and power? I think we're looking at a backup tackle rather than someone wired best for bending to take on shorter powerhouses that get up under him and remove his base/legs.
This isn't about who writes the most adorable essay on behalf of popular opinion inventoried - it's about understanding that winning only 3 of our last 18 games doesn't represent progress to the extent it does hold a Head Coach in his second season more accountable than it's just all just Ray Farmer's fault. You give Mike so much credit for his honesty while someone else is giving him credit for taking all the blame - and yet how often does he clarify the design of this defense we're gagging on is Rex Ryan's with Pettine Jr's wrinkles and Pettine Sr's gray hairs while his soph DC gets all the credit for 100% of its shortcomings. He's also not taking any credit for the distraction caused by his choice of Andy Moeller as our oline coach per the history in tact and the inevitable outcome. At least one of our alcoholism stories was kept church-mouse quiet in-house while the other continues to be Mike's biggest distraction to winning allegedly.
What part of me is supposed to trust anything he says when he's clarifying in a presser he has a terrific working relationship with Ray Farmer; and "I didn't see any problem with me granting Johnny permission to go to Las Vegas after he's exceeded our expectations on and off the field thus far."
Sorry if I fell short, I'm limiting my time here. My question list was a genuine response and they weren't essay questions. Treated as such you might have addressed them all, but I'll work with what I got. Not that it'll be easy when my basic disagreement is with your conviction that Pet has lied, but somehow I get saddled with his coaching record... be that as it may.
You really need to get your quotes right...
Manziel, who took primarily second-team reps Wednesday behind Brian Hoyer instead of third-team behind Hoyer and Tyler Thigpen like he did last week, can take comfort in the fact that coach Mike Pettine doesn't understand all the fuss either.
"Personally, I think it's overblown,'' said Pettine. "More is made of it than it should be. If maybe he had gone somewhere else (it would have drawn less attention) but it's a difficult situation. I think wherever he goes, there's going to be issues.''
Manziel, who looked more comfortable going through his progressions and in one team drill hit Josh Gordon with a 30-yard strike on a corner route, informed Pettine of his weekend plans ahead of time and received the blessing of his coach.
"My advice to him was have fun,'' said Pettine. "He's a young guy. He's done everything that we've asked. The playbook has not been an issue for him. It's something that I know a big deal was made of it [publically], but internally, we have an expectation for all of our players outside of the building to act a certain way, and it's really a non-issue.
"Just like anybody else, he's a man, and we're going to treat our guys like that until they prove that they need to be treated otherwise."
Pettine isn't concerned that Manziel spraying champagne around a club will cast him or the Browns in a bad light.
"We have a saying in the NFL: as long as it doesn't affect your job....I'm not going to micromanage our players outside of the building,'' Pettine said. "What gets put out there, we don't have control over. He didn't do anything illegal. To me, it's a non-issue."
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/05/browns_johnny_manziel_on_vegas.htmlAnd timing is everything. You do realize that your prize quote is from May, 2014??? That it is pre-rehab??? That any knowledge of JM alcoholism would have had to come from scouting?
I see no parallel with Moeller, who had a DUI in 2011 and then nothing until the 2015 flare up which was dealt with openly and quickly.
On Erving... We agree he suffers from a lack of fundamentals, was an average OT prospect and is not physically suited to play inside (where he was clearly drafted to play). So I simply do not see how you find a path to hanging any part of him around Pet's neck.
I've put blame for the D's performance on Pet.
I've questioned an apparent lack of adapting his scheme.
But rather than resort to voluminous waving of unrelated, anecdotal tidbits that somehow are believed to demonstrate lying, I followed a path to root cause blazed by Mud.
I see no parallel with Moeller, who had a DUI in 2011 and then nothing until the 2015 flare up which was dealt with openly and quickly.So Moeller just got canned for no reason at all.
Pettine continues to walk on water in your unparalleled adoration for the 3-15 football trend. He in no way shape or form deserves to be held accountable for anything bad at all. Got it!
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Pom poms for winning 3 of our last 18 games might be your definition of coherent. I'm just used to reading much better things from you than this. Usually a team reflecting good coaching isn't in the midst of a 7 game losing streak where 5 of the last 7 losses had us forfeiting over 30 points a game in the middle of the 2nd season of a coaching regime. I was hoping to see progress of defensive guys playing faster vrs the point of attack in season #2 of Pett's defense in lieu of watching paralysis by over-analysis. It's also fascinating to see Armonty Bryant covering a WR like Boldin all the while I'm thanking God the opponent's QB is only Blaine Gabbert. We've only shown good sic em, sock em and sack em when we went up against 2 teams we're still competing with for the first overall pick in 2016. Your model of coherence calls this Pettine taking us in the right direction? God bless ya!
And what does Shanny have to do with things today? Okay, I'll pretend he was never brought up when Atlanta got out to something like a 5-1 start and hints of what FO interference handcuffed Poor Mikey with. Cinderella had another early midnight and the QB play after midnight looks just as ugly this year for Shanny as it did last year. To be honest, I think we've gotten more out of our QB position than Atlanta has given the circumstances (one area I have zero to complain about from the coaching staff).
And just because a Tackle turned Center problem-solved a team in the ACC doesn't mean the same guy can join an NFL division that sent everybody but Cleveland to the post season - and easily change to OG. He was never really a natural Center but there's only so many opponents in the ACC that could expose that. At the NFL level, he's getting tossed like a salad and you're telling me our coaching staff is grooming him for his ideal place up against guys born with better leverage and power? I think we're looking at a backup tackle rather than someone wired best for bending to take on shorter powerhouses that get up under him and remove his base/legs. Is an Okie Drill that overwhelming for our coaching staff? It can tell you a lot about a linemen in terms of: how well he bends, his pad height out of stance, whether he has a tendency to over extend from keeping his feet too close together (making it real easy for the defender to toss him off to 1 side), detecting bad habits like coming off the ball with the head down, not using a cadence to his advantage in terms of being first to contact. You can pretty much learn who is going to need a sling shot and who is ready to take care of themselves in a world emphasizing Darwin's laws and physics. Maybe in the process, this drill can help our defensive guys like Danny Shelton remember how important pad height can be to winning trench warfare. I'd like to think film is a nice educational tool as well; but I have yet to see evidence of a lot of learning taking place even from an Academic All American like Danny Shelton. I'm going to hold off on prematurely calling that a bad pick because his flaws look like they can be corrected.
This isn't about who writes the most adorable essay on behalf of popular opinion inventoried - it's about understanding that winning only 3 of our last 18 games doesn't represent progress to the extent it does hold a Head Coach in his second season more accountable than it's just all just Ray Farmer's fault. You give Mike so much credit for his honesty while someone else is giving him credit for taking all the blame - and yet how often does he clarify the design of this defense we're gagging on is Rex Ryan's with Pettine Jr's wrinkles and Pettine Sr's gray hairs while his soph DC gets all the credit for 100% of its shortcomings. He's also not taking any credit for the distraction caused by his choice of Andy Moeller as our oline coach per the history in tact and the inevitable outcome. At least one of our alcoholism stories was kept church-mouse quiet in-house while the other continues to be Mike's biggest distraction to winning allegedly. What part of me is supposed to trust anything he says when he's clarifying in a presser he has a terrific working relationship with Ray Farmer; and "I didn't see any problem with me granting Johnny permission to go to Las Vegas after he's exceeded our expectations on and off the field thus far." It's like he's giving a pyromaniac a box of matches 1 day and as soon as it all goes up in smoke - do you all see what Poor Mike has to work with here? His actions don't support his lip service.
X 1,000,000,000,000,000,000
X 1,000,000,000,000,000,000
You one upping motherfucker.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I see no parallel with Moeller, who had a DUI in 2011 and then nothing until the 2015 flare up which was dealt with openly and quickly.
So Moeller just got canned for no reason at all.
Pettine continues to walk on water in your unparalleled adoration for the 3-15 football trend. He in no way shape or form deserves to be held accountable for anything bad at all. Got it!
You guys have got to love having DieHard's support... whatever it is.
So Moeller just got canned for no reason at all.
Pettine continues to walk on water in your unparalleled adoration for the 3-15 football trend. He in no way shape or form deserves to be held accountable for anything bad at all. Got it!
Where did I say Moeller was canned for no reason at all? Moeller as accused of assaulting a female visitor to his home. As a result he and the Browns, undoubtedly led by Pet, agreed to part ways. Where is the parallel to JM in 2014?
Ah... "the trend"...
The leaps you make from discrete, anecdotal incidents to the macro trend put Evil Knievel to shame. I can't decide whether it or your ability to ignore material rebuttals to your "points" is your greater asset.
Please try to keep focus...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
You guys have got to love having DieHard's support... whatever it is.
So Moeller just got canned for no reason at all.
Pettine continues to walk on water in your unparalleled adoration for the 3-15 football trend. He in no way shape or form deserves to be held accountable for anything bad at all. Got it!
Where did I say Moeller was canned for no reason at all? Moeller as accused of assaulting a female visitor to his home. As a result he and the Browns, undoubtedly led by Pet, agreed to part ways. Where is the parallel to JM in 2014?
Ah... "the trend"...
The leaps you make from discrete, anecdotal incidents to the macro trend put Evil Knievel to shame. I can't decide whether it or your ability to ignore material rebuttals to your "points" is your greater asset.
Please try to keep focus...
You guys have got to love having DieHard's support... whatever it is.
Where did I say Moeller was canned for no reason at all? Moeller as accused of assaulting a female visitor to his home. As a result he and the Browns, undoubtedly led by Pet, agreed to part ways. Where is the parallel to JM in 2014?
Ah... "the trend"...
The leaps you make from discrete, anecdotal incidents to the macro trend put Evil Knievel to shame. I can't decide whether it or your ability to ignore material rebuttals to your "points" is your greater asset.
Please try to keep focus...
I'm flattered by your level of anxiety. You're not coming across as a happy camper. Hang in there...
Everyone else - thanks for the nice feedback and compliments.
-
And with that, Flugel moonwalked out the door..."When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
-
X 1,000,000,000,000,000,000
You one upping motherfucker.
You one upping motherfucker.
-
Brady Rodgers Wilson, so not top tier if the first tier is Brady and Rodgers
-
-
fuck russell wilson and anyone here sucking his dick.
i'd take alex smith over wilson any day.
wilson isn't even top 5.
-
fuck russell wilson and anyone here sucking his dick.
i'd take alex smith over wilson any day.
wilson isn't even top 5.
-
i'm dead serious. alex smith smokes russell wilson in every aspect of the game and we should have signed HIM when he was a FA.
-
So you're trolling right? There's literally no way you can be serious.
Mik off his meds again
-
Especially when he said he and Farmer had a great working relationship or when he said he gave Johnny permission to go to Las Vegas (after saying he was going above and beyond the expectations early on in 2014). There's been a lot of things he's said that got conveniently forgotten over time by some.
He's got some big time fans in here for some reason considering we only have 3 wins in 13 games. At the onset of last week's game Quinn announced our running game ranked 32nd (even if PFF says it's very productive). Our defense ranks 32 regardless of how thick the excuse list (we're suddenly the only NFL team with injuries). We ranked last in points allowed and many other defensive categories. If anyone adores our Special Teams play throughout the year - we will have also found an imagination great than fictional writer Stephen King. A 32nd ranked SF offense QBed be the Blaine Gabbert counting on a RB not good enough for our 32nd ranked running game S.Draughns is just what the doctor ordered for at least 1 week. A nice calm before the storm of opponents in a playoff hunt; but we're still doing bad enough to compete for the first pick overall in 2016 right?
While I don't like changing head coaches every other year - what reasons for optimism do I have for Pettine? What facet of the game improved? I wish 100% of all this was Farmer's fault and we had the next version of Vince Lombardi ready to break out of 2 handcuffs once Farmer was given his walking papers. That's a lot of wishing for 1 quick solution. If you can't run the ball or stop the run - you become exactly what your record says you are despite what PFF's patriots want to argue otherwise. All that said, I'm told the best reason Pettine has earned tenure is because guys like Chris Palmer, Pat Shurmur and Chud sucked so no use trying. What a way to give Ghoolie company watching the Hallmark Channel on Sundays.
To Me.. Pettine is a nice guy.. I like the man.. But I never once got the sense that this guy was "Must have" as a coach...
To Me.. Pettine is a nice guy.. I like the man.. But I never once got the sense that this guy was "Must have" as a coach...
True....but if he gets canned, prepare for another Pettine-like coach.
Who is going to come here? The "hot" coordinators like Gase & McDaniels turned us down before.
Pettine isn't great by any means, but the Browns still go after it. I haven't seen a mail-in job yet, that's a credit to the coach IMHO.
Karlis Missed -
Mik off his meds again
put up smith's #'s compared to wilson to date this year.
-
JFF had great game. Pettines defense sucked ass again, as did OL.
-
Mik off his meds again
put up smith's #'s compared to wilson to date this year.
put up smith's #'s compared to wilson to date this year.
TDs were 26 to 15 in favor of Wilson going into today, c'mon Mik these are even close.
-
TDs were 26 to 15 in favor of Wilson going into today, c'mon Mik these are even close.
I honestly can't believe some people on this board. I'm all for some good debate put people say stuff that is literally baffling. Yeah, a guy who is the future of the league and has been to two super bowls is less sought after than a career game manager. That totally adds up.
-
Brady Rodgers Wilson, so not top tier if the first tier is Brady and Rodgers
Brady Rodgers Wilson, so not top tier if the first tier is Brady and Rodgers
So you take Wilson over all the rest?
WSS
I didn't have time to read all the short stories in entirety. 
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login