Jonathan Paul Manziel

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@d-bone said:

Anybody watching AJ McCarron against Denver's #1 rated defense, this is why you draft football players, and not combine boy wonders - workout warriors - who look good in shorts and a tank top. Pick guys that have proven it on film, and done so against other top competition.

"AJ's too slow, AJ's arm is too weak, AJ didn't jump high enough in the 'how high can a guy in shorts jump and swipe the little plastic thingies' drill".........

I'm so sick and tired of the Browns missing on football players because they fall in love with the latest "draft stock riser" who has long arms and can run around little plastic cones really, really, really fast.

PICK GODDAMN FOOTBALL PLAYERS THIS TIME.

It's not that McCarron has a plethora of offensive playmakers.

No, definitely not that. It's because he's a "football player".

Zombo

@hoorta said:

Z, I was out for a few days visiting friends & family, and only had access to crappy hotel computers that wouldn't let me quote. Hi, I'M BACK. Regarding Rodgers- I saw those highlights last night- and it's a truism- a great NFL defense can make even the very best look like crap. I've said a couple times in the past I vividly remember a game where Lawrence Taylor & the Giants made Joe Montana look like Joe Blow in a playoff game. Rodgers DID look like crap last night, arguably worse than Manziel. Sacked 8 times with 3 fumbles.

Tim beat me to it, Z the only thing that mattered in that game is the Browns keeping the #1 overall draft pick in play. Did Johnny play like crap? Sure did. I think it was posted in the thread he was sick. If you bothered to listen to Manziel's post game presser- it's damn obvious he was. OK, excuses aside- bad game.

I'm not ready to start the quarterback crap game yet again in 2016, sorry. Since 2007, There have been 7 true stud qbs drafted- Ryan, Flacco, Stafford, Newton, (Dalton*), Luck, and (luck out) Wilson. Only three of those went #1, Luck was a once in a generational talent everyone and their uncle knew was going to be great- he might be heading down the Tim Couch premature injury exit though.

So it seems- losing to the Squealers, we're going to have at least the #2 pick- (even beating the boogers- we'll draft no worse that fifth) it's Browns bad karma there really isn't an Andrew Luck staring us in the face. Don't forget- drafting a bum qb high (Jafattus Russell, Joey Harrington, RG Knee) will set the Browns back yet another three seasons.

I don't get guys that are OK with losing.

I don't understand guys that want to burn more years on Johnny Manziel.

They game "mattered" not because we were in some playoff chase ... DUH ... it mattered to Manziel because he is three games into a four game audition and he just put on a horrible display of passing in a game in which the Browns could have beaten a team that was fighting for a playoff spot in their own home in late December.

That loss is squarely on manziel, and that's not good for him. It's not good for us. And i think the game kinda mattered to the Chiefs too.

As for the flu ... when this video of him drinking, acting like an idiot and inexpicably allowing himself to be video taped in assmode one more happen? Friday? Thursday night? And then he's too sick to throw a ball on Sunday? Please.

Zombo

D Bone

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

It's not that McCarron has a plethora of offensive playmakers.

No, definitely not that. It's because he's a "football player".

It doesn't hurt for sure, but if you can't see it, then you're even stupider than I thought........ Pretty tough to do, but if anyone can do it, it's you.

TexasAg1969

Zombo said:

I don't understand guys that want to burn more years on Johnny Manziel.

Zombo

Like these guys?

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/cleveland_browns_veterans_go_t.html

miktoxic

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
All of you are hilarious.

all of US??

i guess you aren't one of US (if you were.....ever)? or are you above US?

like i said in another post i'll give them all until the end of next year. problem is with manziel is he might not beat out an old man for the starting job.

that must hurt cuz we all know you hate old men, especially when they take jobs away from lazy nudnicks like you.

Canton Mike

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Sure, it goes for them too.

It's why I was on Pettine's side until we lost 16 of 19. How about we give Manziel 19 starts and then let's see. Same goes for Gilbert, Erving, Shelton, and everyone else.

But no, that's too hard of a concept for a Browns fan to understand. When a player is good, he's the best in the world. When he's bad, get rid of him. All of you are hilarious.

TCPO, you knew this was coming & so did I. Johnny has one stinker of a game throwing the ball this year & far too many predict he's worthless. I think the kid's a player & one lousy game doesn't change that. There is no quit in the kid as evidenced by being down 17-3 at the half & his 2nd half effort with many "Johnny Ball" highlights. IMHO, we would be wise to see Johnny through next year at the least.

Mike

Richiswhere

Zombo said:

I don't get guys that are OK with losing.

I don't understand guys that want to burn more years on Johnny Manziel.

They game "mattered" not because we were in some playoff chase ... DUH ... it mattered to Manziel because he is three games into a four game audition and he just put on a horrible display of passing in a game in which the Browns could have beaten a team that was fighting for a playoff spot in their own home in late December.

That loss is squarely on manziel, and that's not good for him. It's not good for us. And i think the game kinda mattered to the Chiefs too.

As for the flu ... when this video of him drinking, acting like an idiot and inexpicably allowing himself to be video taped in assmode one more happen? Friday? Thursday night? And then he's too sick to throw a ball on Sunday? Please.

Zombo

Doesn't Pettine get any credit for his complete waste of our 3rd time out in the 4th quarter?

D Bone

I'm just glad he isn't drinking a Zima

LondonBrown

What a nothing video, he's at home for crying out loud.

It's enough to drive you to drink all this....

Zombo

TCPO and the rest of the Manziel dick lickers are whining in the other thread because we haven't given proper thought to their list of excuses "He has no weapons, boo hoo hoo" ... "He had the sniffles" ... "Aaron Rogers had a bad game too!"

Because, well that is what pussies do. They whine and make excuses instead of maybe saying "wow, it is the end of year two and this guy's footwork is awful, he still can't read defenses or go through progressions, and he is wildly inconsistent."

So I am just wondering ... who can I compare Johnny too? How about the quarterback on the same team with the same players?

McCown 2015: 8 G, 8GS, 1-7, 63.7 comp%, 263 ypg, 4.1TD% 1.4 Int% 7.3 Sack% Rating 93.3

Manziel 2015: 10G, 6 GS, 2-4, 57.8 comp%, 150 ypg, 3.1TD% 2.2 Int% 7.9 Sack% Rating 79.4

We won't go into details on 2014, because it is too ugly, but, Hoyer 7-6, 76.5 Rating, Manziel 0-2 42.0 Rating

I assume we are OK with the "weapons" argument here, unless you think Brian Hartline and Andrew Hawkins were the very key to McCown's success. But I can hear the "experienced QB" whining, so let's look at his classmates:

OK, how about the players in the same draft class, the four QBs taken in the first 36 picks:

Blake Bortles

29 G, 28 GS, 8-20, 58.9 Cmp%, 7,097 Yards, 46 TD, 4.4 TD%, 33 INT 3.1 Int% 6.8 YPA, 244.7 YPG, 80.9 Rating

Johnny Manziel

15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating

Teddy Twatwater

28 G, 27 GS, 16-11, 65.2 Cmp%, 6,051 Yards, 28 TD, 3.4 TD%, 20 INT 2.4 Int% 7.3 YPA, 216.1 YPG, 88.0 Rating

Derek Carr

31 G, 31 GS, 10-21, 59.4 Cmp%, 7,063 Yards, 52 TD, 4.6 TD%, 24 INT 2.1 Int% 6.2 YPA, 227.8 YPG, 83.9. Rating

Let's see ... They are ALL better at comp %, TD%, and passer rating ... but they aren't even close in rehab stints, lying about their whereabout and douchebag videos.

Now comes the "weapons" whining, those loaded teams Carr and Bortles inherited. Plus these guys got to start right away, they didn't have to beat out the likes of career backups Hoyer and McCown.

So ... how about just guys with more similar experience to Johnny?

Johnny Manziel

15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating

Marcus Marriota

12 G, 12 GS, 3-9, 62.2 Cmp%, 2,818 Yards, 19 TD, 5.1 TD%, 10 INT 2.7 Int% 7.6 YPA, 234.8 YPG, 91.5 Rating

Oh, those loaded Titans ... but Marriota was a Top 2 Pick, how about a second rounder with similar experience?

Johnny Manziel

15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating

Brock Osweiler

19 G, 5 GS, 3-2, 59.8 Cmp%, 1,595 Yards, 9 TD, 3.7 TD%, 4 INT 1.6 Int% 6.5 YPA, 183.9 YPG, 84.9 Rating

But, but, but ... he's been in the league longer, more camps, more time to "season", better team ...

That what pussies do, they make excuses.

No one will be a valid comparison for them.

Because they can't just look at the guy and go "Boy he's not too good, he's still not getting it, and with his size and potential for off-field problems ... we should probably flush this experiment right now and find a better prospect. Like these other guys. They come in to the league every year. We have high draft picks. Take another shot. Improve the rest of the team, bring in another prospect ... that's what you do. You don't plan on starting this guy next year. You plan on improving the position.

Zombo

Zombo

@texasag1969 said:

Like these guys?

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/cleveland_browns_veterans_go_t.html

Donte Whitner?

Ya, like him.

Not sure he will be around to see Johnny's replacement though.

Zombo

TeddyKGB

This is my first post here and let me preface this by disclaiming that I'm a Redskin fan and lurker on this board since 2012 when both of our teams were linked to trying to trade for RGIII so I have no dog in this fight.

I've watched more recently in my peripheral because I was a big Kyle Shanahan fan and when you guys signed him I wanted to see how he would do here. I've also felt a kinship in the sense that both of our franchises have been management laughing stocks of the NFL and complete debacles overall yet our fanbases stay strong and both play in power divisions. All that said this is what I think from an outsider POV:

There is a difference between "staying the path" and "seeing what you have" with Johnny and realizing when a dud is a dud. I think the mobile 1-read QB's like Kaep, RGIII, and Johnny, while talented, are not worth investing your entire future around. RGIII is a great dude, hard worker, team player etc etc but homie cannot get to a 3rd read in a pressure situation to save his life and Johnny is the same exact way.

McCown is a decent QB when the ish is setup around him right and honestly if he was 5 years younger we wouldn't be having this conversation but just look at Fitz in NYJ. Bounced around from team to team but now hes on a precipice of a wildcard berth. You think they care that he is as old as joe dirt? You think that they think Geno is their future still after seeing what a professional QB can do?

Having injuries to Hartline and the WRs is one thing. Losing a potential stud like Gordon to stupidity is another travesty. But trust your eyes - 300 yard games don't grow on trees and McCown has had them. Barnidge and Jordan Reed are taking the TE championship belt from Gronk within 2 years. I think if healthy all year the Browns could of had a wildcard shot ala the Jets. Outside of Chip Kelly none of these 1-read QB's have a shot of progression unless they really dedicate themselves.

Yeah Johnny, throw your helmet in frustration and proclaim that you didn't come through in crunch-time - in reality dog "crunch-time" was your preparation on mon-tues-weds-thurs, it was you staying late watching film instead of drinking fourlokos.

Johnny has a winner's heart with a Vince Young mind.

Just an outsider and fellow underdog's 2 cents

Zombo

@richiswhere said:
Doesn't Pettine get any credit for his complete waste of our 3rd time out in the 4th quarter?

I think we have established he is awful at time management.

The next to last drive where Johnny was throwing uncatchable balls though ... that was the real killer.

Zombo

Richiswhere

Zombo said:

I think we have established he is awful at time management.

The next to last drive where Johnny was throwing uncatchable balls though ... that was the real killer.

Zombo

Unfortunately you forgot to mention that.

miktoxic

@teddykgb said:

This is my first post here and let me preface this by disclaiming that I'm a Redskin fan and lurker on this board since 2012 when both of our teams were linked to trying to trade for RGIII so I have no dog in this fight.

I've watched more recently in my peripheral because I was a big Kyle Shanahan fan and when you guys signed him I wanted to see how he would do here. I've also felt a kinship in the sense that both of our franchises have been management laughing stocks of the NFL and complete debacles overall yet our fanbases stay strong and both play in power divisions. All that said this is what I think from an outsider POV:

There is a difference between "staying the path" and "seeing what you have" with Johnny and realizing when a dud is a dud. I think the mobile 1-read QB's like Kaep, RGIII, and Johnny, while talented, are not worth investing your entire future around. RGIII is a great dude, hard worker, team player etc etc but homie cannot get to a 3rd read in a pressure situation to save his life and Johnny is the same exact way.

McCown is a decent QB when the ish is setup around him right and honestly if he was 5 years younger we wouldn't be having this conversation but just look at Fitz in NYJ. Bounced around from team to team but now hes on a precipice of a wildcard berth. You think they care that he is as old as joe dirt? You think that they think Geno is their future still after seeing what a professional QB can do?

Having injuries to Hartline and the WRs is one thing. Losing a potential stud like Gordon to stupidity is another travesty. But trust your eyes - 300 yard games don't grow on trees and McCown has had them. Barnidge and Jordan Reed are taking the TE championship belt from Gronk within 2 years. I think if healthy all year the Browns could of had a wildcard shot ala the Jets. Outside of Chip Kelly none of these 1-read QB's have a shot of progression unless they really dedicate themselves.

Yeah Johnny, throw your helmet in frustration and proclaim that you didn't come through in crunch-time - in reality dog "crunch-time" was your preparation on mon-tues-weds-thurs, it was you staying late watching film instead of drinking fourlokos.

Johnny has a winner's heart with a Vince Young mind.

Just an outsider and fellow underdog's 2 cents

well that is certainly a well thought out post. can't say i disagree with one thing.

congrats to the skins. thought gruden would be gone but along came cousins. i guess a decent qb and a close to .500 season will let you keep your job.

One Post

I'm a firm believer in putting a person in place where they can succeed but in this case the team offensively doesnt have an identity. I can say the Browns are running the ball better in the last 4 weeks. You would think Manziel would do a lot better with the play action but I've seen horrible throws and bad clock management. I seen a wide open easy TD To Barnige get overthrown badly.

At first I said play Johnny now it's back to square one with me.

Opal312

I wasn't the one that drafted Manziel! I wanted Carr after Bortles was taken. I thought it was an easy no brainer! Carr a receiver and Mack. And my mock draft never changed!

miktoxic

the offense is challenged, mentally and physically. i think in order for manziel to succeed he'd need someone like he had in college to bail him out when needed. a mike evans type hail-mary 'dream' catcher plus a more than average running game. neither are in place with the browns right now.

did manziel miss open receivers yesterday? yes. did he and this busted up offense keep us in the game until the end? yes.

now who knows maybe andy reid had pulled guys and pulled his foot from the gas pedal to keep his guys healthy..........dunno, but the browns still had a chance to win. i would have loved to have seen what would have happened if dumb fuck jennings had got out of bounds and manziel had the last chance with the ball in his hands. just saying.

the season was lost 5 games ago. i just want to know who is good enough to keep and who should be gone, from top to bottom. if haslam decides to flush the whole thing, at this point i don't give a fuck. i personally think we need to get some continuity in the organization. but no one except a select few players in my book can say they have put their hearts and souls into this team this year.

right now flip and o'neil need to go. this fixed scheme shit blows. i was so pissed that they let sheard go and look at him now as the only playmaker the pats have.....rippin it up.

TeddyKGB

Thanks mik,

The NFCLeast Almond Milk Belt is nice and gratifying mainly because of our rivals tears. That said Gruden I was 50/50 on but he went balls deep and hitched his wagon on KC early and was proven right - for that he gets my props. I always thought KC had the talent but what got him to where he is now is the intangibles...facing adversity and believing in himself etc. Honestly I'd still take Scot Mccloughan(the GM) over both of them if it came down to it - he is the #1 reason the skins are even relevant.

What's the consensus on Pettine? From afar he's a defensive guy but has that Browns D bought in? On the other end I think that there's been a ton of adversity for him that the public may not see and I think he's handled it well considering. You guys have sick talent in a lot of areas, maybe just need some of them to develop into core leaders.

jcam222

@teddykgb said:

This is my first post here and let me preface this by disclaiming that I'm a Redskin fan and lurker on this board since 2012 when both of our teams were linked to trying to trade for RGIII so I have no dog in this fight.

I've watched more recently in my peripheral because I was a big Kyle Shanahan fan and when you guys signed him I wanted to see how he would do here. I've also felt a kinship in the sense that both of our franchises have been management laughing stocks of the NFL and complete debacles overall yet our fanbases stay strong and both play in power divisions. All that said this is what I think from an outsider POV:

There is a difference between "staying the path" and "seeing what you have" with Johnny and realizing when a dud is a dud. I think the mobile 1-read QB's like Kaep, RGIII, and Johnny, while talented, are not worth investing your entire future around. RGIII is a great dude, hard worker, team player etc etc but homie cannot get to a 3rd read in a pressure situation to save his life and Johnny is the same exact way.

McCown is a decent QB when the ish is setup around him right and honestly if he was 5 years younger we wouldn't be having this conversation but just look at Fitz in NYJ. Bounced around from team to team but now hes on a precipice of a wildcard berth. You think they care that he is as old as joe dirt? You think that they think Geno is their future still after seeing what a professional QB can do?

Having injuries to Hartline and the WRs is one thing. Losing a potential stud like Gordon to stupidity is another travesty. But trust your eyes - 300 yard games don't grow on trees and McCown has had them. Barnidge and Jordan Reed are taking the TE championship belt from Gronk within 2 years. I think if healthy all year the Browns could of had a wildcard shot ala the Jets. Outside of Chip Kelly none of these 1-read QB's have a shot of progression unless they really dedicate themselves.

Yeah Johnny, throw your helmet in frustration and proclaim that you didn't come through in crunch-time - in reality dog "crunch-time" was your preparation on mon-tues-weds-thurs, it was you staying late watching film instead of drinking fourlokos.

Johnny has a winner's heart with a Vince Young mind.

Just an outsider and fellow underdog's 2 cents

Agree 100%