Jonathan Paul Manziel
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live in ny now. one good friend is a gints fan and one is a skins/steelers fan. (yeah, i know, how does one get away with such nonsense). i hate to see anyone in peril but to see kelly go down in flames is priceless. what he did to that team is beyond words. anyone that proclaimed him a genius should be spotlighted and held accountable. (we have a couple of idiots on here that wanted him in cleveland).
problem with pettine is the same with gruden. last year he pulled out one of the best records since the original team went to baltimore. now when you look back at everything (like you will next year) it was one of the weakest schedules in 2014. they were starting anew and then the whole manziel clusterfuck happened. not that i hate manziel, but the baggage that came with him could upset an apple cart on a level paved road. this year he gave away some power to his assistants and that was a mistake and our talent is lacking at certain positions that got hit with injuries. in other words 'we were not who we thought we were'.
still, i wouldn't blame our owner, who i think is a little more stable than snyder, to just flush everything down the toilet and do a yard sale considering the play on the field. most great football orgs have continuity and stay the course when the shit hits the fan, but in cleveland when that happens...........it's beyond bad. our GM likes to wheel and deal with top round picks like it's a chess game. sometimes just take your pick and pick it and get top talent instead of try to find those 4 players in the 6th round that one day might be good.
Totally agree about having an easy schedule, just happy to have a ticket to the dance. I guess my question is if you have to pick one to keep for the next 3 years is it Pettine, Farmer, or Johnny? Pettine could be a keeper but I feel like he might need a staff revamp. Don't know much about Farmers picks but I loved Shelton and Erving predraft, Duke is a stud but then to me Johnny and Gilbert are complete whiffs. I agree on owners too, Haslam has been patient and good - Snyder won't get a title till his hair's gone completely gray but at least he's gotten out of his own way the past 2 years.
Totally agree about having an easy schedule, just happy to have a ticket to the dance. I guess my question is if you have to pick one to keep for the next 3 years is it Pettine, Farmer, or Johnny? Pettine could be a keeper but I feel like he might need a staff revamp. Don't know much about Farmers picks but I loved Shelton and Erving predraft, Duke is a stud but then to me Johnny and Gilbert are complete whiffs. I agree on owners too, Haslam has been patient and good - Snyder won't get a title till his hair's gone completely gray but at least he's gotten out of his own way the past 2 years.
i'd: keep pettine and have him take over D play calling. don't like flip's stuff this year but didn't like shanahan's either when he was here....maybe too much influence of the WCO or just playing to the strength of the players dealt them, dunno but something has to be done there as well.
farmer needs a kick in his ass, and he/they need to hold scouts accountable when their shit is no good.
half our OL might be gone. some D picks might pan out but are still in desperate need of LB help. AND we have no quality receivers over 6'. so even if the browns decide to keep manziel there are enough needs to take up 2 drafts IMO.
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i gotta six pack that says manziel is NOT the starter next year.
stand or fall.
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This board is notorious for its revisionist history. Conveniently, you can wipe away the proof when you're wrong.Zombo said:
Really? I have I ever deleted one of my threads before??
Do you have anything at all ... ever ... to base that on?
I didn't think so.
Are you just a whiny cunt?
OK, that makes sense.
Good talk.
Zombo
Call me a whiny cunt all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Manziel is going to be our starter next year, nor does it change the fact that you'll go back on your sentiments when he does start winning.
Because half of the people here are whiny, reactionary pussies who have zero backbone. Bad game? Aw fuck he's the worst let's get rid of him. Good game? Aw fuck he's better than anyone in the league.
Because most Browns fans don't know jackshit about football or what it takes to win. They just stomp around and throw a tantrum because boo hoo, woe is me, the Browns suck.
This board is notorious for its revisionist history. Conveniently, you can wipe away the proof when you're wrong.
Yes, I can ... but, I never have.
So, there's that.
Because most Browns fans don't know jackshit about football or what it takes to win.
But you do?
Zombo
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TCPO and the rest of the Manziel dick lickers are whining in the other thread because we haven't given proper thought to their list of excuses "He has no weapons, boo hoo hoo" ... "He had the sniffles" ... "Aaron Rogers had a bad game too!"
Because, well that is what pussies do. They whine and make excuses instead of maybe saying "wow, it is the end of year two and this guy's footwork is awful, he still can't read defenses or go through progressions, and he is wildly inconsistent."
So I am just wondering ... who can I compare Johnny too? How about the quarterback on the same team with the same players?
McCown 2015: 8 G, 8GS, 1-7, 63.7 comp%, 263 ypg, 4.1TD% 1.4 Int% 7.3 Sack% Rating 93.3
Manziel 2015: 10G, 6 GS, 2-4, 57.8 comp%, 150 ypg, 3.1TD% 2.2 Int% 7.9 Sack% Rating 79.4
We won't go into details on 2014, because it is too ugly, but, Hoyer 7-6, 76.5 Rating, Manziel 0-2 42.0 Rating
I assume we are OK with the "weapons" argument here, unless you think Brian Hartline and Andrew Hawkins were the very key to McCown's success. But I can hear the "experienced QB" whining, so let's look at his classmates:
OK, how about the players in the same draft class, the four QBs taken in the first 36 picks:
Blake Bortles
29 G, 28 GS, 8-20, 58.9 Cmp%, 7,097 Yards, 46 TD, 4.4 TD%, 33 INT 3.1 Int% 6.8 YPA, 244.7 YPG, 80.9 Rating
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Teddy Twatwater
28 G, 27 GS, 16-11, 65.2 Cmp%, 6,051 Yards, 28 TD, 3.4 TD%, 20 INT 2.4 Int% 7.3 YPA, 216.1 YPG, 88.0 Rating
Derek Carr31 G, 31 GS, 10-21, 59.4 Cmp%, 7,063 Yards, 52 TD, 4.6 TD%, 24 INT 2.1 Int% 6.2 YPA, 227.8 YPG, 83.9. RatingLet's see ... They are ALL better at comp %, TD%, and passer rating ... but they aren't even close in rehab stints, lying about their whereabout and douchebag videos.Now comes the "weapons" whining, those loaded teams Carr and Bortles inherited. Plus these guys got to start right away, they didn't have to beat out the likes of career backups Hoyer and McCown.So ... how about just guys with more similar experience to Johnny?Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Marcus Marriota
12 G, 12 GS, 3-9, 62.2 Cmp%, 2,818 Yards, 19 TD, 5.1 TD%, 10 INT 2.7 Int% 7.6 YPA, 234.8 YPG, 91.5 Rating
Oh, those loaded Titans ... but Marriota was a Top 2 Pick, how about a second rounder with similar experience?
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Brock Osweiler
19 G, 5 GS, 3-2, 59.8 Cmp%, 1,595 Yards, 9 TD, 3.7 TD%, 4 INT 1.6 Int% 6.5 YPA, 183.9 YPG, 84.9 Rating
But, but, but ... he's been in the league longer, more camps, more time to "season", better team ...
That what pussies do, they make excuses.
No one will be a valid comparison for them.
Because they can't just look at the guy and go "Boy he's not too good, he's still not getting it, and with his size and potential for off-field problems ... we should probably flush this experiment right now and find a better prospect. Like these other guys. They come in to the league every year. We have high draft picks. Take another shot. Improve the rest of the team, bring in another prospect ... that's what you do. You don't plan on starting this guy next year. You plan on improving the position.
Zombo
Now this is a good example of how you can make stats in your favor. Zombo decided to add into Manziel stats, games in which he threw for 0, 12 and 27 yards. Mop up duty in the Rams and Cardinals game and he must of came into the second game against the Ravens at some point.
Zombo said:
Brock Osweiler
19 G, 5 GS, 3-2, 59.8 Cmp%, 1,595 Yards, 9 TD, 3.7 TD%, 4 INT 1.6 Int% 6.5 YPA, 183.9 YPG, 84.9 RatingNice job on your math here, no that's not it. Your so eager to bash someone that you would try and deceive the people on this board? Brock has a YPG of 83.9. Now how did that little old number "1" get in front of the 83.9? Because nowhere in Brocks stat is there anything close to 183.9 YPG
"You see the Rams are still thinking that they are playing Tony Dorsett" -Jim Brown 1978 -
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Totally agree about having an easy schedule, just happy to have a ticket to the dance. I guess my question is if you have to pick one to keep for the next 3 years is it Pettine, Farmer, or Johnny? Pettine could be a keeper but I feel like he might need a staff revamp. Don't know much about Farmers picks but I loved Shelton and Erving predraft, Duke is a stud but then to me Johnny and Gilbert are complete whiffs. I agree on owners too, Haslam has been patient and good - Snyder won't get a title till his hair's gone completely gray but at least he's gotten out of his own way the past 2 years.
i'd: keep pettine and have him take over D play calling. don't like flip's stuff this year but didn't like shanahan's either when he was here....maybe too much influence of the WCO or just playing to the strength of the players dealt them, dunno but something has to be done there as well.
farmer needs a kick in his ass, and he/they need to hold scouts accountable when their shit is no good.
half our OL might be gone. some D picks might pan out but are still in desperate need of LB help. AND we have no quality receivers over 6'. so even if the browns decide to keep manziel there are enough needs to take up 2 drafts IMO.
i'd: keep pettine and have him take over D play calling. don't like flip's stuff this year but didn't like shanahan's either when he was here....maybe too much influence of the WCO or just playing to the strength of the players dealt them, dunno but something has to be done there as well.
farmer needs a kick in his ass, and he/they need to hold scouts accountable when their shit is no good.
half our OL might be gone. some D picks might pan out but are still in desperate need of LB help. AND we have no quality receivers over 6'. so even if the browns decide to keep manziel there are enough needs to take up 2 drafts IMO.
Thanks for the fill in mik,
Back on topic, watching Pettine, I just get the feeling that McCown is his ride-or-die chic and #1 choice. Seems like Johnny is the sloppy seconds because he knows, while hot and shiny, she already has herpes and won't bear his children.
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Now this is a good example of how you can make stats in your favor. Zombo decided to add into Manziel stats, games in which he threw for 0, 12 and 27 yards. Mop up duty in the Rams and Cardinals game and he must of came into the second game against the Ravens at some point.
Zombo said:
Brock Osweiler
19 G, 5 GS, 3-2, 59.8 Cmp%, 1,595 Yards, 9 TD, 3.7 TD%, 4 INT 1.6 Int% 6.5 YPA, 183.9 YPG, 84.9 RatingNice job on your math here, no that's not it. Your so eager to bash someone that you would try and deceive the people on this board? Brock has a YPG of 83.9. Now how did that little old number "1" get in front of the 83.9? Because nowhere in Brocks stat is there anything close to 183.9 YPG
Umm ... I used all of Manziel's stats, and all of the other guys stats as well.Now this is a good example of how you can make stats in your favor. Zombo decided to add into Manziel stats, games in which he threw for 0, 12 and 27 yards. Mop up duty in the Rams and Cardinals game and he must of came into the second game against the Ravens at some point.
Nice job on your math here, no that's not it. Your so eager to bash someone that you would try and deceive the people on this board? Brock has a YPG of 83.9. Now how did that little old number "1" get in front of the 83.9? Because nowhere in Brocks stat is there anything close to 183.9 YPG
The one in front of 83.9 is a typo. Their passer ratings were not.
Z
--I guess I can update Brock now, anyway. Johnny is great against Cincinnati too.
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Umm ... I used all of Manziel's stats, and all of the other guys stats as well.Now this is a good example of how you can make stats in your favor. Zombo decided to add into Manziel stats, games in which he threw for 0, 12 and 27 yards. Mop up duty in the Rams and Cardinals game and he must of came into the second game against the Ravens at some point.
Nice job on your math here, no that's not it. Your so eager to bash someone that you would try and deceive the people on this board? Brock has a YPG of 83.9. Now how did that little old number "1" get in front of the 83.9? Because nowhere in Brocks stat is there anything close to 183.9 YPG
The one in front of 83.9 is a typo. Their passer ratings were not.
Z
--I guess I can update Brock now, anyway. Johnny is great against Cincinnati too.
Zombo said:
Umm ... I used all of Manziel's stats, and all of the other guys stats as well.
The one in front of 83.9 is a typo. Their passer ratings were not.
Z
--I guess I can update Brock now, anyway. Johnny is great against Cincinnati too.
Yeah convenient spot for a typo.
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Zombo said:
Umm ... I used all of Manziel's stats, and all of the other guys stats as well.
The one in front of 83.9 is a typo. Their passer ratings were not.
Z
--I guess I can update Brock now, anyway. Johnny is great against Cincinnati too.
Yeah convenient spot for a typo.
Osweiler, like Johhny, has a low ypg because of relief appearances, so I have no problem discarding that stat. I think the percentages are the key.Yeah convenient spot for a typo.
And, yes, it was a typo, but Brock threw for 299 tonight, against the Bengals that eat Johnny alive, so that is worth noting.
Z
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Is this a joke?
This partying ahole sucks!!!
I rather reboot than waste another 2-3 year with this midget.
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Bortle and Carr are studs.
Bridgewater will win a ton of games.
We are left with the partying wannabe NFL QB.
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VesnaKociper said:
If he wants to get drunk, laid and even high on grass in places it is legal, it's his fucking business. Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb were huge drunks and whore masters. Picking on this kid during a bye week? Fuck The NFL. I hope Roger Goddell dies in his sleep. Not a Manziel fan, but the kid can't take a shit without someone scolding him or correcting his form.
Shit I agree with Ghoolie.. What is wrong with me? And TCPO is right too. Manziel is fine. I would rather stick with what we have and draft defense and WR.. Everyone here seems to have been infected with Walter's bipolar complex. One second we have the best team ever and the next we should cut the whole team..
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VesnaKociper said:
I hope Roger Goddell dies in his sleep.
Classic Ghoolie.
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Anybody watching AJ McCarron against Denver's #1 rated defense, this is why you draft football players, and not combine boy wonders - workout warriors - who look good in shorts and a tank top. Pick guys that have proven it on film, and done so against other top competition.
"AJ's too slow, AJ's arm is too weak, AJ didn't jump high enough in the 'how high can a guy in shorts jump and swipe the little plastic thingies' drill".........
I'm so sick and tired of the Browns missing on football players because they fall in love with the latest "draft stock riser" who has long arms and can run around little plastic cones really, really, really fast.
PICK GODDAMN FOOTBALL PLAYERS THIS TIME.
You are literally too stupid to insult. Manziel is a severely better "football player" than McCarron. Guess we should bring in Jake Coker too. And last year that black kid that played for Bama because, like, he's totally a football player since he won some games with 4 straight #1 recruiting classes around him (that's an actual stat).Anybody watching AJ McCarron against Denver's #1 rated defense, this is why you draft football players, and not combine boy wonders - workout warriors - who look good in shorts and a tank top. Pick guys that have proven it on film, and done so against other top competition.
"AJ's too slow, AJ's arm is too weak, AJ didn't jump high enough in the 'how high can a guy in shorts jump and swipe the little plastic thingies' drill".........
I'm so sick and tired of the Browns missing on football players because they fall in love with the latest "draft stock riser" who has long arms and can run around little plastic cones really, really, really fast.
PICK GODDAMN FOOTBALL PLAYERS THIS TIME.
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Anybody watching AJ McCarron against Denver's #1 rated defense, this is why you draft football players, and not combine boy wonders - workout warriors - who look good in shorts and a tank top. Pick guys that have proven it on film, and done so against other top competition.
"AJ's too slow, AJ's arm is too weak, AJ didn't jump high enough in the 'how high can a guy in shorts jump and swipe the little plastic thingies' drill".........
I'm so sick and tired of the Browns missing on football players because they fall in love with the latest "draft stock riser" who has long arms and can run around little plastic cones really, really, really fast.
PICK GODDAMN FOOTBALL PLAYERS THIS TIME.
Anybody watching AJ McCarron against Denver's #1 rated defense, this is why you draft football players, and not combine boy wonders - workout warriors - who look good in shorts and a tank top. Pick guys that have proven it on film, and done so against other top competition.
"AJ's too slow, AJ's arm is too weak, AJ didn't jump high enough in the 'how high can a guy in shorts jump and swipe the little plastic thingies' drill".........
I'm so sick and tired of the Browns missing on football players because they fall in love with the latest "draft stock riser" who has long arms and can run around little plastic cones really, really, really fast.
PICK GODDAMN FOOTBALL PLAYERS THIS TIME.
You know who else did so "against top competition"? Greg McElroy. What a long and illustrious NFL career he had.
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VesnaKociper said:
Mik, this cocksucker is the worst kind of fan. His arrogant, self-smug attitude is real. Me? Being an asshole is a fun hobby. Ask Stan and Zombo.... I am good for posting activity. Do you ever read some of the shit I post? I can't even remember 20% of it, but I am told it riles a lot of folks up. Did I tell you that I think we should get rid of Joe Thomas? LMAO.
umm...
can you play this song on the accordion?
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Johnny:
Completions per aimed throws-61.1%
Completions plus drops per aimed throws-70.6%
Brock:
66.1%
72.5%
Mariota:
66.3%
71.5%
Bortles:
63.8%
69.8%
Bridgewater:
75%
79.8%
Carr:
64.6%
72.7%
Winston:
62.3%
69.7%
No one is getting less help from his receivers than our QB.
In case anyone's still not aware, Johnny is a scrambling QB.
Johnny:
Rushing yards-231
Brock:
61
Mariota:
255
Bortles:
314
Bridgewater:
185
Carr:
126
Winston:
186
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love the big mouths.
put $10 on the line and they fall into the cracks and shadows like church mice.
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So much crying and bitching over a lost game. I'll stick to the players on the team for who they think belongs as the starter next year. Too many little weenie whiners here. And what happened to all that previous bitching about how he had no guts and would not take one for the team? So he only broke the Browns running record with his "quitter" play and had them in position to win at the end when his arm was not up to par. All I heard was people bitching that he was gonna just get hurt. The hate on here for the Browns starting QB is just over the top. I was told you folks support the Browns. I don't see it from all but a few when it comes to JM.
Z-take a few days off.
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Donte Whitner?
Ya, like him.
Not sure he will be around to see Johnny's replacement though.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Donte Whitner?
Ya, like him.
Not sure he will be around to see Johnny's replacement though.
Zombo
Since you obviously did not read the article or maliciously chose to ignore the others, here is a quote for all to see from it. Pick and chose all you want, but the team is still behind him Z. Just because you don't agree does not make you right.
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"Manziel even earned praise from tight end Gary Barnidge, despite the fact he threw behind Barnidge at least three times and was picked off on one pass intended for him. Barnidge only corralled three of his eight targets for 47 yards.
"It makes it so tough on the defense because you never know what's going to happen,'' he said. "He's able to extend plays 5, 6, 7 seconds when they are done in four. That makes it tough. It helping our running game b/c it forces the defense too keep an eye on another person in the running game. As soon as they commit too much, the passing game becomes open.''
And while Manziel -- who had three chances in the fourth quarter to win the game -- blamed himself for botching the end when time ran out on him and he couldn't run a final play, Barnidge took the onus off the young signal caller.
"It's tough we ran out of time,'' said Barnidge. "He was doing a good job. He was hustling up the plays. You could see the leadership in him. He got everyone going, got the plays called. I don't think we wasted any time.''
Crowell, who rushed for 88 yards on 16 carries, cited Manziel's leadership in the huddle.
"I felt like Johnny was in control,'' he said. "We made some good plays and we made a couple of bad plays. We made a bad play at the wrong time and I feel like that cost us the game."
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