Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I'd have disowned you first, no worries.
hey mouth, still got a six saying manziel won't start next year.
you a man or a mouse?
hey mouth, still got a six saying manziel won't start next year.
you a man or a mouse?
I'll take it.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
He's a gerbil
The smartest thing I've ever seen you post...and it's still not very smart.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I will just be happy to have a QB that fits whatever system we are trying to run and a staff that fits the systems as well. QB has always been a problem here because we always pick QBs that do not fit our system just because they were good in college. Can we just build the team right once and see what happens?!
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My comparison would be Brady Quinn. Manziel reminds me of BQ in about every way. Anyone else agree?
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This is my first post here and let me preface this by disclaiming that I'm a Redskin fan and lurker on this board since 2012 when both of our teams were linked to trying to trade for RGIII so I have no dog in this fight.
I've watched more recently in my peripheral because I was a big Kyle Shanahan fan and when you guys signed him I wanted to see how he would do here. I've also felt a kinship in the sense that both of our franchises have been management laughing stocks of the NFL and complete debacles overall yet our fanbases stay strong and both play in power divisions. All that said this is what I think from an outsider POV:
There is a difference between "staying the path" and "seeing what you have" with Johnny and realizing when a dud is a dud. I think the mobile 1-read QB's like Kaep, RGIII, and Johnny, while talented, are not worth investing your entire future around. RGIII is a great dude, hard worker, team player etc etc but homie cannot get to a 3rd read in a pressure situation to save his life and Johnny is the same exact way.
McCown is a decent QB when the ish is setup around him right and honestly if he was 5 years younger we wouldn't be having this conversation but just look at Fitz in NYJ. Bounced around from team to team but now hes on a precipice of a wildcard berth. You think they care that he is as old as joe dirt? You think that they think Geno is their future still after seeing what a professional QB can do?
Having injuries to Hartline and the WRs is one thing. Losing a potential stud like Gordon to stupidity is another travesty. But trust your eyes - 300 yard games don't grow on trees and McCown has had them. Barnidge and Jordan Reed are taking the TE championship belt from Gronk within 2 years. I think if healthy all year the Browns could of had a wildcard shot ala the Jets. Outside of Chip Kelly none of these 1-read QB's have a shot of progression unless they really dedicate themselves.
Yeah Johnny, throw your helmet in frustration and proclaim that you didn't come through in crunch-time - in reality dog "crunch-time" was your preparation on mon-tues-weds-thurs, it was you staying late watching film instead of drinking fourlokos.
Johnny has a winner's heart with a Vince Young mind.
Just an outsider and fellow underdog's 2 cents
Gotta love these descents into darkness...
This is my first post here and let me preface this by disclaiming that I'm a Redskin fan and lurker on this board since 2012 when both of our teams were linked to trying to trade for RGIII so I have no dog in this fight.
Nice series of posts...
The common thread between the two HCs and their respective QB decisions is that both got to see their choices day after day, practice after practice and used that to make their choice. I think both have had their choices validated.
The difference was that only one had a choice between two young QBs.
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I'll take it.
datta boy.
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i think Manziel has enough potential to not draft another QB in the first round. Even if the Browns part ways with Johnny, I think it would be OK to go with McCown, Davis and Shaw next season. If the Browns stick with the same coaching staff/playbook, it would be better to stick with QBs that know the system rather than throwing another rookie QB out there, especially since there are no QBs coming out this year that scream #2 pick.
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I'd be interested in seeing your good and bad lists mud.
PS-and just for the record Jerry Jones has very much regretted not having JM
Ha!....you KNOW you arent gonna like that list....glutton for punishment are ya?......
.....no time this minute(gotta go) but will post it up later for you.....And yes.....I keep hearing that Jerry likes him......but I also know there is no way he will pay a decent price...Ive said it before and Ill say it again....if he so regrets not drafting him, then let him put his money where his mouth is and anti up a first or second round pick for him.....otherwise, he really doesnt regret passing on him or like him THAT much....does he?
My gut says he offers something more like a 6th(if that).....(which will be closer to what he thinks he's worth).....
Ha!....you KNOW you arent gonna like that list....glutton for punishment are ya?......
.....no time this minute(gotta go) but will post it up later for you.....And yes.....I keep hearing that Jerry likes him......but I also know there is no way he will pay a decent price...Ive said it before and Ill say it again....if he so regrets not drafting him, then let him put his money where his mouth is and anti up a first or second round pick for him.....otherwise, he really doesnt regret passing on him or like him THAT much....does he?
My gut says he offers something more like a 6th(if that).....(which will be closer to what he thinks he's worth).....
Good points Fly... Johnny is a frat boy, he's disruptive off the field, and I can list a lot more cons, but I look at the improvement between last year and this year, the tempo he brings to the game, and the POTENTIAL to open up the offense, I'd give him a shot and let Johnny be Johnny..not some watered down version... just look at the difference in Crowell's numbers since Manziel has provided an additional running threat. Get a couple of big receivers and and O looks a whole lot different.
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Because JM is part of that "talent"?
Look... all the back and forth at both extremes is tiresome.
I haven't noticed teams spying JM while the quick hitters or wide ZBS runs that have produced chunks the past couple weeks.
I have noticed a couple zone reads go for chunks when, contrary to the treat JM adds, a backside DE or OLB did not honor the QB run. The zone read's elimination of backside pursuit is not nothing, but neither is it pivotal... especially when the bootleg threat is well established.
His run threat requiring a spy should help his passing as much or more than it does our team running attack. The run success should translate into open PAP completions for even more chunks. Have they?
The strides JM has made are in mastering the basics of QB play in the NFL: getting out play calls, pre-snap reads and adjustments. That the contrast is stark is only a testament to how abysmal his early efforts were.
The next step is very, very high...
Bottom line: JM is not garbage, but neither is he, or his promise, great.
The strides JM has made are in mastering the basics of QB play in the NFL: getting out play calls, pre-snap reads and adjustments. That the contrast is stark is only a testament to how abysmal his early efforts were.
The next step is very, very high...
Bottom line: JM is not garbage, but neither is he, or his promise, great.
You are saying the same thing I am. You are just being polite about it.
Being that far way at the end of year two is not good.
We need to make some off-season decisions, and finding a QB WITH great promise should be one of them.
Zombo
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My comparison would be Brady Quinn. Manziel reminds me of BQ in about every way. Anyone else agree?
My comparison would be Brady Quinn. Manziel reminds me of BQ in about every way. Anyone else agree?
He throws a little better deep ball, and is a little slower at reading defenses. But the end result of "small ball" offense and lack of confidence in putting up points when he is in there is very similar.
Zombo
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The fact that he posted this video HIMSELF is what I find troubling.
If a friend put it up, of them partying in his house ... whoops. Sorry, coach.
You do it yourself ... after what happened last time?
This guy puts Johnny Manziel himself above the Cleveland Browns.
Are there any other NFL QBs that post videos of themselves partying in this day age? What is that? I don't get it?
It can't be because I'm an old limpdick, because I don't see Wilson, Marriotta, Carr, Bridgewater, Bortles ... ANY young QBs posting videos of themselves partying and singing/rapping. The only one that does it is the one that has been told not to do it.
This is four days after a humiliating loss in which he had like 136 yards passing?
No ... he's not doing anything wrong in the video ... but he has his coach handling distractions again, answering questions about him ... why do that?
As Herm Edwards says ... "Don't press send".
Zombo
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i'd: keep pettine and have him take over D play calling. don't like flip's stuff this year but didn't like shanahan's either when he was here....maybe too much influence of the WCO or just playing to the strength of the players dealt them, dunno but something has to be done there as well.
farmer needs a kick in his ass, and he/they need to hold scouts accountable when their shit is no good.
half our OL might be gone. some D picks might pan out but are still in desperate need of LB help. AND we have no quality receivers over 6'. so even if the browns decide to keep manziel there are enough needs to take up 2 drafts IMO.
Thanks for the fill in mik,
Back on topic, watching Pettine, I just get the feeling that McCown is his ride-or-die chic and #1 choice. Seems like Johnny is the sloppy seconds because he knows, while hot and shiny, she already has herpes and won't bear his children.
Thanks for the fill in mik,
Back on topic, watching Pettine, I just get the feeling that McCown is his ride-or-die chic and #1 choice. Seems like Johnny is the sloppy seconds because he knows, while hot and shiny, she already has herpes and won't bear his children.
We'll find out in around 10 days what direction this is going. I really doubt Haslam is going to wait long if he thinks serious changes are needed. The problem is, Pettine rode McCown until he was totally broken down- if he was a horse, they would have taken him out back and shot him. The guy is a career backup for a reason- he generally holds onto the ball for too damn long and is slow in his reads- ergo the broken ribs and collarbone.
I'm ambivalent about Manziel. I think he's shown improvement, but the question is if it's enough improvement. I do think the Browns will draft another qb in the spring- but not sure if yet another high pick is the way to go. Generally, this season the Browns have lost games because of gawd awful defense, not poor qb play. The KC game was an aberration in that regard.
Oh, stop being so diplomatic mik. Makes you look bad. How do I pink that anyway?
Come on man- you can't figure out the pink font? I would hope you have that bar up on top of your reply. The colors are next to the smilies.
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Well at least Johnny has a hot mom, there somebody said it!
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Manziel sucks.
The quicker the cord is cut the faster the recovery can begin.
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This board is notorious for its revisionist history. Conveniently, you can wipe away the proof when you're wrong.Zombo said:
Really? I have I ever deleted one of my threads before??
Do you have anything at all ... ever ... to base that on?
I didn't think so.
Are you just a whiny cunt?
OK, that makes sense.
Good talk.
Zombo
Call me a whiny cunt all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Manziel is going to be our starter next year, nor does it change the fact that you'll go back on your sentiments when he does start winning.
Because half of the people here are whiny, reactionary pussies who have zero backbone. Bad game? Aw fuck he's the worst let's get rid of him. Good game? Aw fuck he's better than anyone in the league.
Because most Browns fans don't know jackshit about football or what it takes to win. They just stomp around and throw a tantrum because boo hoo, woe is me, the Browns suck.
C'mon Timmy! You are known to be a flip flopping whiny bitch. Manziel sucks and he will never ever get it... I'm sticking to my gun since draft day.This board is notorious for its revisionist history. Conveniently, you can wipe away the proof when you're wrong.
Call me a whiny cunt all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Manziel is going to be our starter next year, nor does it change the fact that you'll go back on your sentiments when he does start winning.
Because half of the people here are whiny, reactionary pussies who have zero backbone. Bad game? Aw fuck he's the worst let's get rid of him. Good game? Aw fuck he's better than anyone in the league.
Because most Browns fans don't know jackshit about football or what it takes to win. They just stomp around and throw a tantrum because boo hoo, woe is me, the Browns suck.
Most brown fans like you have no clue about football. How can anyone think Manziel can be anything in the pros. What games were folks watching in the college ranks?!?!?
MFG!!
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TCPO and the rest of the Manziel dick lickers are whining in the other thread because we haven't given proper thought to their list of excuses "He has no weapons, boo hoo hoo" ... "He had the sniffles" ... "Aaron Rogers had a bad game too!"
Because, well that is what pussies do. They whine and make excuses instead of maybe saying "wow, it is the end of year two and this guy's footwork is awful, he still can't read defenses or go through progressions, and he is wildly inconsistent."
So I am just wondering ... who can I compare Johnny too? How about the quarterback on the same team with the same players?
McCown 2015: 8 G, 8GS, 1-7, 63.7 comp%, 263 ypg, 4.1TD% 1.4 Int% 7.3 Sack% Rating 93.3
Manziel 2015: 10G, 6 GS, 2-4, 57.8 comp%, 150 ypg, 3.1TD% 2.2 Int% 7.9 Sack% Rating 79.4
We won't go into details on 2014, because it is too ugly, but, Hoyer 7-6, 76.5 Rating, Manziel 0-2 42.0 Rating
I assume we are OK with the "weapons" argument here, unless you think Brian Hartline and Andrew Hawkins were the very key to McCown's success. But I can hear the "experienced QB" whining, so let's look at his classmates:
OK, how about the players in the same draft class, the four QBs taken in the first 36 picks:
Blake Bortles
29 G, 28 GS, 8-20, 58.9 Cmp%, 7,097 Yards, 46 TD, 4.4 TD%, 33 INT 3.1 Int% 6.8 YPA, 244.7 YPG, 80.9 Rating
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Teddy Twatwater
28 G, 27 GS, 16-11, 65.2 Cmp%, 6,051 Yards, 28 TD, 3.4 TD%, 20 INT 2.4 Int% 7.3 YPA, 216.1 YPG, 88.0 Rating
Derek Carr31 G, 31 GS, 10-21, 59.4 Cmp%, 7,063 Yards, 52 TD, 4.6 TD%, 24 INT 2.1 Int% 6.2 YPA, 227.8 YPG, 83.9. RatingLet's see ... They are ALL better at comp %, TD%, and passer rating ... but they aren't even close in rehab stints, lying about their whereabout and douchebag videos.Now comes the "weapons" whining, those loaded teams Carr and Bortles inherited. Plus these guys got to start right away, they didn't have to beat out the likes of career backups Hoyer and McCown.So ... how about just guys with more similar experience to Johnny?Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Marcus Marriota
12 G, 12 GS, 3-9, 62.2 Cmp%, 2,818 Yards, 19 TD, 5.1 TD%, 10 INT 2.7 Int% 7.6 YPA, 234.8 YPG, 91.5 Rating
Oh, those loaded Titans ... but Marriota was a Top 2 Pick, how about a second rounder with similar experience?
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Brock Osweiler
19 G, 5 GS, 3-2, 59.8 Cmp%, 1,595 Yards, 9 TD, 3.7 TD%, 4 INT 1.6 Int% 6.5 YPA, 183.9 YPG, 84.9 Rating
But, but, but ... he's been in the league longer, more camps, more time to "season", better team ...
That what pussies do, they make excuses.
No one will be a valid comparison for them.
Because they can't just look at the guy and go "Boy he's not too good, he's still not getting it, and with his size and potential for off-field problems ... we should probably flush this experiment right now and find a better prospect. Like these other guys. They come in to the league every year. We have high draft picks. Take another shot. Improve the rest of the team, bring in another prospect ... that's what you do. You don't plan on starting this guy next year. You plan on improving the position.
Zombo
Zombo said:
McCown 2015: 8 G, 8GS, 1-7, 63.7 comp%, 263 ypg, 4.1TD% 1.4 Int% 7.3 Sack% Rating 93.3
Manziel 2015: 10G, 6 GS, 2-4, 57.8 comp%, 150 ypg, 3.1TD% 2.2 Int% 7.9 Sack% Rating 79.4
We won't go into details on 2014, because it is too ugly, but, Hoyer 7-6, 76.5 Rating, Manziel 0-2 42.0 Rating
Blake Bortles29 G, 28 GS, 8-20, 58.9 Cmp%, 7,097 Yards, 46 TD, 4.4 TD%, 33 INT 3.1 Int% 6.8 YPA, 244.7 YPG, 80.9 Rating
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Teddy Twatwater
28 G, 27 GS, 16-11, 65.2 Cmp%, 6,051 Yards, 28 TD, 3.4 TD%, 20 INT 2.4 Int% 7.3 YPA, 216.1 YPG, 88.0 Rating
Derek Carr31 G, 31 GS, 10-21, 59.4 Cmp%, 7,063 Yards, 52 TD, 4.6 TD%, 24 INT 2.1 Int% 6.2 YPA, 227.8 YPG, 83.9. RatingLet's see ... They are ALL better at comp %, TD%, and passer rating ... but they aren't even close in rehab stints, lying about their whereabout and douchebag videos.Now comes the "weapons" whining, those loaded teams Carr and Bortles inherited. Plus these guys got to start right away, they didn't have to beat out the likes of career backups Hoyer and McCown.So ... how about just guys with more similar experience to Johnny?Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Marcus Marriota
12 G, 12 GS, 3-9, 62.2 Cmp%, 2,818 Yards, 19 TD, 5.1 TD%, 10 INT 2.7 Int% 7.6 YPA, 234.8 YPG, 91.5 Rating
Oh, those loaded Titans ... but Marriota was a Top 2 Pick, how about a second rounder with similar experience?
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Brock Osweiler
19 G, 5 GS, 3-2, 59.8 Cmp%, 1,595 Yards, 9 TD, 3.7 TD%, 4 INT 1.6 Int% 6.5 YPA, 183.9 YPG, 84.9 Rating
But, but, but ... he's been in the league longer, more camps, more time to "season", better team ... EXACTLY
Because they can't just look at the guy and go "Boy he's not too good, he's still not getting it, and with his size and potential for off-field problems ... we should probably flush this experiment right now and find a better prospect. Like these other guys. They come in to the league every year. We have high draft picks. Take another shot. Improve the rest of the team, bring in another prospect ... that's what you do. You don't plan on starting this guy next year. You plan on improving the position.
Zombo
Z, you can make stats look any way you want to. McCown was putting up numbers ok, but he was getting himself killed in the process. Very gutsy- and stupid. I think Manziel is one ahead of Josh in the win column too.
Regarding Bortles, he's had more starts, Teddy has Peterson, Carr has Crabtree and Cooper. (and a guy on defense named Mack)
The only fair comparison in my book is Mariotta, & they're just about even in the only stat that counts- wins. .
Don't give me any crap about Osweiler- he's sat behind Manning learning from the best for 4 years- and BTW, he has Sanders and Thomas to throw to- and a stud defense to bail him out. So, give Manziel another two seasons, Josh Gordon, and a #1 ranked defense and get back to me on that comparison.
Weren't you the guy just bitching about our sieve defense that gave up 30+ points a ton of games in a row? Like Manziel is responsible for a defense that's near the bottom in every category?
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Way too many pages to read through right now, but my assessment of Manziel was that he did pretty good. I saw the line-up at the beginning of the game and our starting WRs were Benjamin and Gabriel... I was like, "Johnny is gonna have to run for his life"! All he did was avoid being sacked all game long and breaking rushing records for a QB in Clevelnad(and that is going to be a low number when all is said and done). You can't expect him to hit receivers that just aren't there to be hit. On the rare occasion where there is a receiver wide open... he's gotta hit that guy. But that goes for any QB. He's young and has a lot to prove/learn, but he's on the right track.
With Gordon and another big ass WR, on the field that is also playmaker, it's going to be a fun ride with Manziel. It's not Gloom and Doom for me, for me I can start to see the Sun breaking over the peaks at the dawning of a new era. We will get this franchise righted. Manziel spiking that helmet at the end of the game sealed the deal for me. Finally a QB that shows that it pisses him off, it's now 'awe shucks' maybe next time mentality. That fight and desire to win will carry over to the rest of the team and become contagious, he's the catalyst as much as some of you may hate it.
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Zombo said:
McCown 2015: 8 G, 8GS, 1-7, 63.7 comp%, 263 ypg, 4.1TD% 1.4 Int% 7.3 Sack% Rating 93.3
Manziel 2015: 10G, 6 GS, 2-4, 57.8 comp%, 150 ypg, 3.1TD% 2.2 Int% 7.9 Sack% Rating 79.4
We won't go into details on 2014, because it is too ugly, but, Hoyer 7-6, 76.5 Rating, Manziel 0-2 42.0 Rating
Blake Bortles29 G, 28 GS, 8-20, 58.9 Cmp%, 7,097 Yards, 46 TD, 4.4 TD%, 33 INT 3.1 Int% 6.8 YPA, 244.7 YPG, 80.9 Rating
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Teddy Twatwater
28 G, 27 GS, 16-11, 65.2 Cmp%, 6,051 Yards, 28 TD, 3.4 TD%, 20 INT 2.4 Int% 7.3 YPA, 216.1 YPG, 88.0 Rating
Derek Carr31 G, 31 GS, 10-21, 59.4 Cmp%, 7,063 Yards, 52 TD, 4.6 TD%, 24 INT 2.1 Int% 6.2 YPA, 227.8 YPG, 83.9. RatingLet's see ... They are ALL better at comp %, TD%, and passer rating ... but they aren't even close in rehab stints, lying about their whereabout and douchebag videos.Now comes the "weapons" whining, those loaded teams Carr and Bortles inherited. Plus these guys got to start right away, they didn't have to beat out the likes of career backups Hoyer and McCown.So ... how about just guys with more similar experience to Johnny?Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Marcus Marriota
12 G, 12 GS, 3-9, 62.2 Cmp%, 2,818 Yards, 19 TD, 5.1 TD%, 10 INT 2.7 Int% 7.6 YPA, 234.8 YPG, 91.5 Rating
Oh, those loaded Titans ... but Marriota was a Top 2 Pick, how about a second rounder with similar experience?
Johnny Manziel
15 G, 8 GS, 2-6, 57.0 Cmp%, 1,675 Yards, 7 TD, 2.7 TD%, 7 INT 2.7 Int% 6.5 YPA, 111.7 YPG, 74.4 Rating
Brock Osweiler
19 G, 5 GS, 3-2, 59.8 Cmp%, 1,595 Yards, 9 TD, 3.7 TD%, 4 INT 1.6 Int% 6.5 YPA, 183.9 YPG, 84.9 Rating
But, but, but ... he's been in the league longer, more camps, more time to "season", better team ... EXACTLY
Because they can't just look at the guy and go "Boy he's not too good, he's still not getting it, and with his size and potential for off-field problems ... we should probably flush this experiment right now and find a better prospect. Like these other guys. They come in to the league every year. We have high draft picks. Take another shot. Improve the rest of the team, bring in another prospect ... that's what you do. You don't plan on starting this guy next year. You plan on improving the position.
Zombo
Z, you can make stats look any way you want to. McCown was putting up numbers ok, but he was getting himself killed in the process. Very gutsy- and stupid. I think Manziel is one ahead of Josh in the win column too.
Regarding Bortles, he's had more starts, Teddy has Peterson, Carr has Crabtree and Cooper. (and a guy on defense named Mack)
The only fair comparison in my book is Mariotta, & they're just about even in the only stat that counts- wins. .
Don't give me any crap about Osweiler- he's sat behind Manning learning from the best for 4 years- and BTW, he has Sanders and Thomas to throw to- and a stud defense to bail him out. So, give Manziel another two seasons, Josh Gordon, and a #1 ranked defense and get back to me on that comparison.
Weren't you the guy just bitching about our sieve defense that gave up 30+ points a ton of games in a row? Like Manziel is responsible for a defense that's near the bottom in every category?
Z, you can make stats look any way you want to. McCown was putting up numbers ok, but he was getting himself killed in the process. Very gutsy- and stupid. I think Manziel is one ahead of Josh in the win column too.
Regarding Bortles, he's had more starts, Teddy has Peterson, Carr has Crabtree and Cooper. (and a guy on defense named Mack)
The only fair comparison in my book is Mariotta, & they're just about even in the only stat that counts- wins. .
Don't give me any crap about Osweiler- he's sat behind Manning learning from the best for 4 years- and BTW, he has Sanders and Thomas to throw to- and a stud defense to bail him out. So, give Manziel another two seasons, Josh Gordon, and a #1 ranked defense and get back to me on that comparison.
Weren't you the guy just bitching about our sieve defense that gave up 30+ points a ton of games in a row? Like Manziel is responsible for a defense that's near the bottom in every category?
So the only stats that matter for QBs are wins and losses? That's stupid, but let's play along:
Manziel is 2-6. Beat two last place teams.
And having a bad defense is not an excuse for being a bad QB. It only makes the blowouts worse.
Here is how many points we have scored in the games Manziel has taken the majority of the snaps:
0,10,28, 10,9.24,13, 13
A little over 13 pts. per game, Only led us to more than one TD in 2 out of 8 games.
Sorry, but if you are looking for "wins", the 85 Bears or 2000 Ravens would be hard-pressed to win more than 3 of those starts.
Zombo
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Manziel
Footwork - below avg
Arm strength - below avg
Accuracy - below avg
Ability to read defense - piss poor
Height - below avg
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Z, you can make stats look any way you want to. McCown was putting up numbers ok, but he was getting himself killed in the process. Very gutsy- and stupid. I think Manziel is one ahead of Josh in the win column too.
Regarding Bortles, he's had more starts, Teddy has Peterson, Carr has Crabtree and Cooper. (and a guy on defense named Mack)
The only fair comparison in my book is Mariotta, & they're just about even in the only stat that counts- wins. .
Don't give me any crap about Osweiler- he's sat behind Manning learning from the best for 4 years- and BTW, he has Sanders and Thomas to throw to- and a stud defense to bail him out. So, give Manziel another two seasons, Josh Gordon, and a #1 ranked defense and get back to me on that comparison.
Weren't you the guy just bitching about our sieve defense that gave up 30+ points a ton of games in a row? Like Manziel is responsible for a defense that's near the bottom in every category?
So the only stats that matter for QBs are wins and losses? That's stupid, but let's play along:
Manziel is 2-6. Beat two last place teams.
And having a bad defense is not an excuse for being a bad QB. It only makes the blowouts worse.
Here is how many points we have scored in the games Manziel has taken the majority of the snaps:
0,10,28, 10,9.24,13, 13
A little over 13 pts. per game, Only led us to more than one TD in 2 out of 8 games.
Sorry, but if you are looking for "wins", the 85 Bears or 2000 Ravens would be hard-pressed to win more than 3 of those starts.
Zombo
Zombo said:
So the only stats that matter for QBs are wins and losses? That's stupid, but let's play along:
Manziel is 2-6. Beat two last place teams.
And having a bad defense is not an excuse for being a bad QB. It only makes the blowouts worse.
Here is how many points we have scored in the games Manziel has taken the majority of the snaps:
0,10,28, 10,9.24,13, 13
A little over 13 pts. per game, Only led us to more than one TD in 2 out of 8 games.
Sorry, but if you are looking for "wins", the 85 Bears or 2000 Ravens would be hard-pressed to win more than 3 of those starts.
Zombo
Z, I'm really not defending Manziel, but those points #s just might be attributable to no weapons?
If the Browns decide to terminate the JFF experiment, it won't make me particularly sad.
I think I made my case in another thread. If you decide Manziel isn't the answer- just because you have a top five pick, doesn't mean you have to take a quarterback at all costs. Not if the value isn't there. I've pointed out the disaster cases. Russell, Griffin, Harrington. That would set us back even farther than sticking with Johnny boy. Just having a franchise qb isn't the automatic ticket to the Promised Land either, or you want to tell me guys like Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, and Matt Stafford aren't?
If it was that damn easy to find the next franchise quarterback- every team would have one. I think we've tried.
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