Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Kinda hard to fake much of any injury now. Look up what an MRI shows. Hamstring, sprain or strain, it shows all. Concussion?, Kinda hard to fake that now too. 21st century guys.
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Kinda hard to fake much of any injury now. Look up what an MRI shows. Hamstring, sprain or strain, it shows all. Concussion?, Kinda hard to fake that now too. 21st century guys.
Kinda hard to fake much of any injury now. Look up what an MRI shows. Hamstring, sprain or strain, it shows all.
My only point is that there is no protocol to check strains and sprains.....if team wants to keep a guy out, they can simply say he pulled a hamstring and no one will question it....or call for an MRI......
Now....if a player says he's hurt, then maybe the team can or will check that out....but not the league.....
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I will say this in fairness to Manziel. The suspension of the WR, the loss of TE Jordan Cameron, and the seeming failure to invest adequately in the skill positions would have a negative effect on any young QB. If you look at the great QBs over the decades, you will invariably see those teams invest heavily in skill positions after acquiring the franchise signal caller. Pittsburgh followed the Bradshaw drafting with Franco Harris and Lynn Swann in the first rounds. Aikman was followed in subsequent drafts by Emmitt Smith, Alvin Harper, Jimmy Smith, and Kevin Williams. Peyton Manning was drafted in the Colts by 1998. The Colts provided him with Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark. The Steelers followed the Roethlisberger draft with Heath Miller, Santonio Holmes, and Rashad Mendenhall. Luck was given Dwayne Allen, Coby Fleener and TY Hilton in the same draft, and Donte Moncrief and Phillip Dorsett in later drafts. The Raiders gave Carr Amari Cooper the next year. I think if there is going to be any hope of Manziel developing into the QB Browns fans hope, you have to give him the tools around him to succeed.
But he has to do his part.
I agree about skill position players, but in fairness, we never skipped a beat at TE. Cameron was replaced by Barnidge, who has played better, and has stayed healthier.
And McCown and Hoyer had the same weapons as Johnny.
In the 7 games where McCown took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 21.8 points per game and 290.1 passing yards per game.
In the 7 games where Manziel took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 15.3 points per game and 195.5 passing yards per game.
But, since the defense had its two best games of the year with Johnny under center, and held the lowly Titans to 14 and the lowly 49ers to 10 ... Johnny was better.
Our third best defensive game was holding the Chiefs to 17, but our QB was 13-32 in that game.
We gave up 24 or more points in all of McCowns starts ... but I'm sure that was his fault. Johnny "inspired" the defense.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I agree about skill position players, but in fairness, we never skipped a beat at TE. Cameron was replaced by Barnidge, who has played better, and has stayed healthier.
And McCown and Hoyer had the same weapons as Johnny.
In the 7 games where McCown took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 21.8 points per game and 290.1 passing yards per game.
In the 7 games where Manziel took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 15.3 points per game and 195.5 passing yards per game.
But, since the defense had its two best games of the year with Johnny under center, and held the lowly Titans to 14 and the lowly 49ers to 10 ... Johnny was better.
Our third best defensive game was holding the Chiefs to 17, but our QB was 13-32 in that game.
We gave up 24 or more points in all of McCowns starts ... but I'm sure that was his fault. Johnny "inspired" the defense.
Zombo
I stand corrected about the TE position, but the overall analysis remains unchanged. If ANY QB is to succeed in Cleveland, he'll need more help.
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Devils advocate here.....
.....Assuming Gordon comes back next year(which Im feeling is gonna happen)....
He's the #1 WR....for sure.....
Benji is #2 WR....for sure.....
Hawkins is likely the #3 or slot guy(and one of the best, at that).....
And Barnidge is your TE......
And Duke is your HB.....
The only place I truly see a deep need for "skill player upgrades" are at QB.....and maybe RB with Crowell.....
So....assuming the above.....where do the "new skill players" go.....or who do they replace and why?
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Devils advocate here.....
.....Assuming Gordon comes back next year(which Im feeling is gonna happen)....
He's the #1 WR....for sure.....
Benji is #2 WR....for sure.....
Hawkins is likely the #3 or slot guy(and one of the best, at that).....
And Barnidge is your TE......
And Duke is your HB.....
The only place I truly see a deep need for "skill player upgrades" are at QB.....and maybe RB with Crowell.....
So....assuming the above.....where do the "new skill players" go.....or who do they replace and why?
Devils advocate here.....
.....Assuming Gordon comes back next year(which Im feeling is gonna happen)....
He's the #1 WR....for sure.....
Benji is #2 WR....for sure.....
Hawkins is likely the #3 or slot guy(and one of the best, at that).....
And Barnidge is your TE......
And Duke is your HB.....
The only place I truly see a deep need for "skill player upgrades" are at QB.....and maybe RB with Crowell.....
So....assuming the above.....where do the "new skill players" go.....or who do they replace and why?
Again, I said it before......whatever personnell guy we have coming in here (and I don't think it will be Ray Farmer).....it would not surprise me if a WR and a RB were taken fairly high.
I mean....we have to make up for Farmer's fuckups with Terence West and Vince Mayle.
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So....you dont think Duke is a suitable(or even excellent) follow up to West?.....
And....assuming he returns.....would Josh Gordon not be a quality #1 in place of Mayle?
So....you dont think Duke is a suitable(or even excellent) follow up to West?.....
And....assuming he returns.....would Josh Gordon not be a quality #1 in place of Mayle?
Sure.....both would be right. I am just saying, don't be surprised if our next GM goes Ghoolie on us and wants more weaponry at the offensive skill positions.
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My question is this:
1) How can guys come in on Wednesday and say they have a concussion?
2) I mean, a blow to the head is a blow to the head....why would it take so long to diagnose?
3) And....have the plays where these concussions occurred been identified?
1) I would guess that they just walk in and report that their head hurts or they are having symptoms....
2) During a game, if a player receives a mjor blow to the head, there are league spotters who have the authority to conduct a sideline check....this happens often.....but not always........Sometimes a player feels fine and no one notices the hit, so it goes undiagnosed, unless the player says something.....
3) I have no clue...but doubt that its a critical thing to know....if he has a concussion, he has a concussion.....and thats all that really matters, right?>...
1) I would guess that they just walk in and report that their head hurts or they are having symptoms....
2) During a game, if a player receives a mjor blow to the head, there are league spotters who have the authority to conduct a sideline check....this happens often.....but not always........Sometimes a player feels fine and no one notices the hit, so it goes undiagnosed, unless the player says something.....
3) I have no clue...but doubt that its a critical thing to know....if he has a concussion, he has a concussion.....and thats all that really matters, right?>...
Adrenalin can play a role the day of the injury. I've seen NFL players pop up after a big hit and shake their head and continue to play. The "head shake" should be an unmissable red flag, yet it does not seem to be.
As for the diagnosis "delay"... Some symptoms can be delayed for days. My money here is on light sensitivity showing up.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/concussion/basics/symptoms/con-20019272
And in reply to Gip- every NFL player now has a "baseline" normal. You don't get to practice or play until you return to normal. That's why Haden and Hawkins got permanently sat this year.
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Gotcha, I do think JM is faking it, or that Pet set it up.
Just wondered why he was ruled out so quickly?
Usually they leave questionable or game time status up there, unless you need to get cleared by the protocol a week early or some shit....
i don't know much about the protocol.
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1) I would guess that they just walk in and report that their head hurts or they are having symptoms....
2) During a game, if a player receives a mjor blow to the head, there are league spotters who have the authority to conduct a sideline check....this happens often.....but not always........Sometimes a player feels fine and no one notices the hit, so it goes undiagnosed, unless the player says something.....
3) I have no clue...but doubt that its a critical thing to know....if he has a concussion, he has a concussion.....and thats all that really matters, right?>...
Well, on the last point, it just seems that Johnny did fine....sort of...in the latter part of the game. Nothing affected him there.
And what is the issue about saying right now that he is out for Sunday.
Wouldn't it be better to wait and see. There are still 3 days between now and then. How cant they tell right now that he wouldn't be capable of playing Sunday?
Well, on the last point, it just seems that Johnny did fine....sort of...in the latter part of the game. Nothing affected him there.
And what is the issue about saying right now that he is out for Sunday.
Wouldn't it be better to wait and see. There are still 3 days between now and then. How cant they tell right now that he wouldn't be capable of playing Sunday?
i think you make a great point...don't they usually give day to day updates?...i have not seen any... i think this all bullshit...He just wants out and somehow pulled this shit off...Kind of like that running back we had...hillis...to this day, no one will ever ever change my mind in that the asshole was faking his injury...
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What's the difference in symptoms between "concussed" and "hung over" ?
I have all of those symptoms after a few too many rounds of scotch. Give me a bottle of Glenlivet Nadurra and a couple Cohibas and I won't get to my baseline for a couple days.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
1) I would guess that they just walk in and report that their head hurts or they are having symptoms....
2) During a game, if a player receives a mjor blow to the head, there are league spotters who have the authority to conduct a sideline check....this happens often.....but not always........Sometimes a player feels fine and no one notices the hit, so it goes undiagnosed, unless the player says something.....
3) I have no clue...but doubt that its a critical thing to know....if he has a concussion, he has a concussion.....and thats all that really matters, right?>...
Adrenalin can play a role the day of the injury. I've seen NFL players pop up after a big hit and shake their head and continue to play. The "head shake" should be an unmissable red flag, yet it does not seem to be.
As for the diagnosis "delay"... Some symptoms can be delayed for days. My money here is on light sensitivity showing up.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/concussion/basics/symptoms/con-20019272
And in reply to Gip- every NFL player now has a "baseline" normal. You don't get to practice or play until you return to normal. That's why Haden and Hawkins got permanently sat this year.
And in reply to Gip- every NFL player now has a "baseline" normal. You don't get to practice or play until you return to normal. That's why Haden and Hawkins got permanently sat this year.
yeah, but there were updates usually with the progress. I have not seen shit on chonnie...again, who gives a shit at this point, let him go to dallas where he wants to go anyway...he's a texassss boy in his heart...
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Devils advocate here.....
.....Assuming Gordon comes back next year(which Im feeling is gonna happen)....
He's the #1 WR....for sure.....
Benji is #2 WR....for sure.....
Hawkins is likely the #3 or slot guy(and one of the best, at that).....
And Barnidge is your TE......
And Duke is your HB.....
The only place I truly see a deep need for "skill player upgrades" are at QB.....and maybe RB with Crowell.....
So....assuming the above.....where do the "new skill players" go.....or who do they replace and why?
Devils advocate here.....
.....Assuming Gordon comes back next year(which Im feeling is gonna happen)....
He's the #1 WR....for sure.....
Benji is #2 WR....for sure.....
Hawkins is likely the #3 or slot guy(and one of the best, at that).....
And Barnidge is your TE......
And Duke is your HB.....
The only place I truly see a deep need for "skill player upgrades" are at QB.....and maybe RB with Crowell.....
So....assuming the above.....where do the "new skill players" go.....or who do they replace and why?
don't agree with benjamin...too small. he's good special team player and that is it...returning kicks, punts etc...would have been nice to see bowe pan out and play like he did the first few yrs with the chiefs...don't know what happened to him...I agree with one of the poster that we need and should get another bigger reciever if available in the draft that can make an immediate impact..
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Devils advocate here.....
.....Assuming Gordon comes back next year(which Im feeling is gonna happen)....
He's the #1 WR....for sure.....
Benji is #2 WR....for sure.....
Hawkins is likely the #3 or slot guy(and one of the best, at that).....
And Barnidge is your TE......
And Duke is your HB.....
The only place I truly see a deep need for "skill player upgrades" are at QB.....and maybe RB with Crowell.....
So....assuming the above.....where do the "new skill players" go.....or who do they replace and why?
don't agree with benjamin...too small. he's good special team player and that is it...returning kicks, punts etc...would have been nice to see bowe pan out and play like he did the first few yrs with the chiefs...don't know what happened to him...I agree with one of the poster that we need and should get another bigger reciever if available in the draft that can make an immediate impact..
don't agree with benjamin...too small. he's good special team player and that is it...returning kicks, punts etc...would have been nice to see bowe pan out and play like he did the first few yrs with the chiefs...don't know what happened to him...I agree with one of the poster that we need and should get another bigger reciever if available in the draft that can make an immediate impact..
Bowe is old and according to a KC reporter I heard before the season started was saying that Bowe was done last year and anyone who watched the games should've been able to see it. He isn't going to pan out unless he finds a delorean and can get it up to 88mph and go back in time. He's getting released and we eat the $9 million guaranteed.
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don't agree with benjamin...too small. he's good special team player and that is it...returning kicks, punts etc...would have been nice to see bowe pan out and play like he did the first few yrs with the chiefs...don't know what happened to him...I agree with one of the poster that we need and should get another bigger reciever if available in the draft that can make an immediate impact..
Bowe is old and according to a KC reporter I heard before the season started was saying that Bowe was done last year and anyone who watched the games should've been able to see it. He isn't going to pan out unless he finds a delorean and can get it up to 88mph and go back in time. He's getting released and we eat the $9 million guaranteed.
I love listening to Doug Dieken on Monday afternoons when he calls into the Bull & Fox show. He always talks about some behind the scenes stuff that nobody else will talk about. This week when Doug called in he was discussing Dwayne Bowe. According to Doug, he said that Bowe has developed a following of younger players. He is filling them with negativity, such as telling them that the weight room and conditioning really isn't that important. From the way Dieken described Bowe, he sounds like a locker room cancer. Time to cut him out.Bowe is old and according to a KC reporter I heard before the season started was saying that Bowe was done last year and anyone who watched the games should've been able to see it. He isn't going to pan out unless he finds a delorean and can get it up to 88mph and go back in time. He's getting released and we eat the $9 million guaranteed.
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My opinion: Manziel doesn't have what it takes to be an effective quarterback in the NFL.
- He's not a very accurate passer. In the NFL you have to hit open receivers; Manziel has made a quick career of missing them.
- He's too short to see over the O-Line. That wasn't as debilitating at A&M because Manziel just chucked jump balls to Evans when he couldn't see. That doesn't work in the NFL.
- He can't control his behavior off the field. A QB is the face of an NFL franchise. Manziel's face is covered in greasepaint.
Is he exciting when he scrambles? You bet. Is he going to win in the NFL? Hell no.
The quarterback search continues...
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I don't see what the big deal is with the NFL benching Manziel and other players with concussions. I mean, Kosar used to play while hungover concussed all the time, and yet he shows no ill side effects today, right? These NFL doctors today have no idea what they're talking about...
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And what is the issue about saying right now that he is out for Sunday..........Wouldn't it be better to wait and see. ........... How cant they tell right now that he wouldn't be capable of playing Sunday?
I think it just boils down to practicing for the game.....and if Johnny cant practice, then he wont be prepared......
Maybe, if he recovers today or something, they could get him some reps....otherwise im guessing they'd rather just go with the guy who practiced all week.....
This might be part of it but the main problem is Johnny didn't report any problems until Wednesday. Most of the time we know of these concussions durning or after the game but by not knowing anything until Wednesday, Johnny lost 3 days of proper healing time. Even when guys are concussed on Sundays you still aren't hearing of them being cleared to play until the end of the week.I think it just boils down to practicing for the game.....and if Johnny cant practice, then he wont be prepared......
Maybe, if he recovers today or something, they could get him some reps....otherwise im guessing they'd rather just go with the guy who practiced all week.....
It wouldn't surprise me in the very near future that the NFL will make it mandatory for a player that had a concussion to miss the following game.
Truth be told I kind of wished that Johnny hadn't said anything and that probably 10 time worse that all these people saying hes faking it
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Hey it only gets better Tramon Williams is on the concussion protocol.
Can we just forfeit, and get it over with? Or is every guy with a f**king headache now in "concussion protocol"?
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Some responses here about faking are just plain ignorant. If Manziel is "faking" a concussion, then the MD who is checking him for it needs to be fired for not knowing how to detect a "fake" from a real concussion. It's ludicrous to suggest that either Manziel or Pettine are using this as a convenient out for Sunday.
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