Farmer and Pettine both fired. Official
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This is a hard one. For me, it depends on what other coaches are available before I fire Pet. Farmer is easier, I fire him. Someone has to be held accountable for this 3-13 dumpster fire, and Ray and his phone get the boot. Now if the Colts are dumb enough to fire Pagano, then I also fire Pet and target Pags.
I like Pet the man, but I haven't seen enough improvement to hand him the keys again if there is a proven coach that I can replace him with....... If there isn't that proven coach, then I keep him as making a lateral move just for the sake of making a move would set us back even further.
Are we really sure Pagano is that great of a coach? He "lucked" into a franchise QB and Arians coached that team for most of his first year anyways. I know he's won more games than Pettine has here...but are we really sure he's a great coach?
Are we really sure Pagano is that great of a coach? He "lucked" into a franchise QB and Arians coached that team for most of his first year anyways. I know he's won more games than Pettine has here...but are we really sure he's a great coach?
How many great coaches had crap QB's?
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
Cash is nice when you sign a three year contract with guaranteed money no matter what shit effort you make.
Weather the storm for a year and walk out with three years pay. That is who will come if pettine is gone.
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One Post From the Truth said:
Pettine is gone, sure as shit.
Farmer is gone also.
Get an experienced coach who's been in the playoffs. Someone under the radar. Like Arians.
Get a GM that's had some success.
Because coaches and GM's that have been to the playoffs and have had success other places grow on trees and are easy to find.
Rod Graves might be available. I believe Pagano will be also.Because coaches and GM's that have been to the playoffs and have had success other places grow on trees and are easy to find.
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If we fire .. We will get the 8th best candidate.
Our takent level is low,we have no qb, and Jimmy will have fired 3 coaches in 4 offseasons ... we will be last choice.
Z
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One Post From the Truth said:
Rod Graves might be available. I believe Pagano will be also.
Rod Graves I've never heard of. Pagano...definitely has had success in Indy. Just looked him up..didn't realize that he was a coach with the Browns with Butch.
Rod Graves was the GM when the Cards went to SB in '08. He's got an eye for talent. He lost his job when he couldn't land P. Manning in Az. No one knows too much other than Coach Whiz and him were shit canned.Rod Graves I've never heard of. Pagano...definitely has had success in Indy. Just looked him up..didn't realize that he was a coach with the Browns with Butch.
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If we fire .. We will get the 8th best candidate.
Our takent level is low,we have no qb, and Jimmy will have fired 3 coaches in 4 offseasons ... we will be last choice.
Z
Zombo said:
If we fire .. We will get the 8th best candidate.
Our takent level is low,we have no qb, and Jimmy will have fired 3 coaches in 4 offseasons ... we will be last choice.
Z
This is why Jimmy needs to open the wallet and pay
We can get a Gruden, Cowher, Parcells, Gibbs, type guy
Just pay the money
It isn't our money, and the team is worth Almost DOUBLE what Jimmy paid for it.
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If we fire .. We will get the 8th best candidate.
Our takent level is low,we have no qb, and Jimmy will have fired 3 coaches in 4 offseasons ... we will be last choice.
Z
Zombo said:
If we fire .. We will get the 8th best candidate.
Our takent level is low,we have no qb, and Jimmy will have fired 3 coaches in 4 offseasons ... we will be last choice.
Z
Unfortunately that is reality. So away with Farmer and O'Neil.
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You can't fire Pettine and here's why....the new GM isn't going to find anyone better to replace him. Period. We know this. You can get Elliot Wolf that's fine, but just because he becomes our GM doesn't mean we're gonna have elite level coaches banging down the door to come coach here. We know this. If this clown show continues, we can maybe get away with firing Pettine next year. We fire another coach after 2 years and it's over. Cleveland fans really need to wake up to that fact. No one is coming here that's worth a shit. We'll be rolling the dice again on some unproven coach who's coming here as mostly an audition for a job in some other organization. I'm not some huge Pettine fan, i have some real issues with our defense was handled this year and that is on him...he's a defense guy. And the fact that it's coming out that Gilbert was his pick. He's got one more year to show improvement in that defense.
You underestimate the lure of cash.....
If Jimmy puts out the money, we can get anyone he wants
You underestimate the lure of cash.....
If Jimmy puts out the money, we can get anyone he wants
i think that's wishful thinking at this point. I think alot of the proven guys look at it that they might get Jimmy to part with alot of cash, but the experience here ruins their careers. Why would a Cowher or Gruden come to an organization as dysfunctional as this where there's no hope of turning things around quickly enough to satisfy the fan base that will be calling for them to be tarred and feathered halfway through the 1st season of what would necessarily be a minimum of a 4 year project? Why? You know full well that Gruden could sign on with us and the boners on this board for him woudl be raging......till literally 7 games into next season when we'll be lucky to have won a game or two.
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I would pretty much say all of them.How many great coaches had crap QB's?
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Supposedly numerous sources in the org get the feeling Pettine is done. Take it for what it is worth.
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Like many (most) Fans, I have had my thoughts about who may get the axe, but I am certainly not qualified to say who stays or goes. However, I strongly believe that the most important hire Jimmy could make is an experienced football guy as a President of Football Operations (POFO as Gipper has stated) to make intelligent, informed football decisions. The progression from there should be whether or not Farmer stays, then the HC issue, and on from there to create a legitimate & credible chain of command.
That's what I would like to see, but we'll see what ACTUALLY happens.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
This is a hard one. For me, it depends on what other coaches are available before I fire Pet. Farmer is easier, I fire him. Someone has to be held accountable for this 3-13 dumpster fire, and Ray and his phone get the boot. Now if the Colts are dumb enough to fire Pagano, then I also fire Pet and target Pags.
I like Pet the man, but I haven't seen enough improvement to hand him the keys again if there is a proven coach that I can replace him with....... If there isn't that proven coach, then I keep him as making a lateral move just for the sake of making a move would set us back even further.
Are we really sure Pagano is that great of a coach? He "lucked" into a franchise QB and Arians coached that team for most of his first year anyways. I know he's won more games than Pettine has here...but are we really sure he's a great coach?
Are we really sure Pagano is that great of a coach? He "lucked" into a franchise QB and Arians coached that team for most of his first year anyways. I know he's won more games than Pettine has here...but are we really sure he's a great coach?
I like Pags. I think he's done a great job this year with the hand he was dealt, and his teams always seem prepared and they play hard........ Just a gut feel on my part.
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Like many (most) Fans, I have had my thoughts about who may get the axe, but I am certainly not qualified to say who stays or goes. However, I strongly believe that the most important hire Jimmy could make is an experienced football guy as a President of Football Operations (POFO as Gipper has stated) to make intelligent, informed football decisions. The progression from there should be whether or not Farmer stays, then the HC issue, and on from there to create a legitimate & credible chain of command.
That's what I would like to see, but we'll see what ACTUALLY happens.
Mike
Like many (most) Fans, I have had my thoughts about who may get the axe, but I am certainly not qualified to say who stays or goes. However, I strongly believe that the most important hire Jimmy could make is an experienced football guy as a President of Football Operations (POFO as Gipper has stated) to make intelligent, informed football decisions. The progression from there should be whether or not Farmer stays, then the HC issue, and on from there to create a legitimate & credible chain of command.
That's what I would like to see, but we'll see what ACTUALLY happens.
Mike
totally agree with this
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Keep 'em all. Even Farmer. Even O'Neill! Just get more juice at your position coach spots. Our guys are inexperienced, and suck.
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I say, "Stay the Course"!
Keep everything in place, build off what we have and if we don't eclipse a .500 season next year then we will have to pull the plug.
But for right now, I feel like we need to invest in continuity. Maybe this scheme will work with a little more time towards adjustments.
With the Browns getting Gordon back, a draft that might hold the number 1 overall pick to go along with a good draft class, getting Ekpre next season and just development from all our guys... we have a shot here to make a hell of a good football team.
Pettine needs to be better. O'Neil needs to be better. Special Teams, specifically field goal unit, needs to be better. The micromanaging of the D line needs to stop. Guys like Shelton need to be in there for 3 downs, make the other team dread hitting our wall. Get some monsters out there and let them feast.
But, I say we stay the course. Unless we can pry The Oz from Baltimore to come and be our GM and Gruden wants the Head Coaching Job.. hold firm and lets see if we can build something here. The longer we have continuity the faster and better our guys will be able to play. With knowing all the exceptions to the rules and where the plays are to be made... just build, invest and embrace the process. Superbowl next year, Gordon is the comeback player of the year. The Defense and Offense rank in the top 5 and our Gameplans are much more effective. Go Browns.
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I'm in agreement PG and also with Mike. We do need experience, but this doesn't mean we have to fire. Continuity could well be the key.
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To keep everyone for the sake of continuity is not the answer....and even if it is, who has the patience? I really liked Pettine, but I think there is a lot going on that we just don't even know about. What if Pettine is the one who sabotaged this whole mess this season? We sign Bowe....he doesn't play him....we have Manziel...he doesn't play him until it's too late to really evaluate him. I have a feeling that this marriage between Farmer and Pettine has been a disaster...even worse than we think, from day one. If the plan is to keep Manziel, then Pettine absolutely has to go. If the plan is to get rid of Manziel, then Pettine still has to go. If he couldn't compromise for the sake of winning games in the past, he will only drag us down further...if that's possible. Farmer is incompetent and doesn't have one clue on how to evaluate talent. He should have been gone already, except for one possibility. Most media and fans believe that Farmer was the " fall guy" and took the heat for drafting Manziel, when it was actually an order from Haslam. If Farmer is still here after Monday, then we know this is true. Fire them all and hire a respected football person to build the management and the team. This is what most of us agree on. If Haslam picks the right individual, he will have enough influence to attract a decent coach and GM.
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The problem is that despite the bluster and the pontifications on this board we really don't know anything about the personal dynamics among the three key players.
If I were Jimmy Haslam I do my best to get the general manager and the head coach to open up and tell me their honest feelings.
It could be that they are on the same page and just fucking everything up. It could be Pet resents Farmer, and if so might be subconsciously undermining the pics.
If Jimmy really is calling the shots, as in Johnny, then it doesn't matter who the coach is.
If I were the owner I'd sit down with Johnny and ask him to come clean about his feelings about playing in Cleveland and his relationship with the coaching staff. Then and only then what I consider a trade with Dallas who sucks without Tony Romo.
Problem is that if the head coach and GM don't get along that's a bad sign. The harder you force it the more resentment you get. But the fact is either the players are up to par or they're not being used very well. If we disregard injuries look at Paul Kruger. He was fine last year, but now playing in a different situation... I don't know enough about football to tell you if Mingo has been properly used, but I hear a lot of pundits questioning that.
Of course if you should can the coach and GM I would imagine the coordinators would be replaced. And personally I'd like to start 2016 with a commitment to Johnny as he builds and on the field relationship with Gordon. A healthy Brian Hartline and another good year from Gary Barnidge and a toughened up defense with Joey Bosa and better luck with a defensive back at the top of the second round and a little easier last place schedule and I'm looking at a marked improvement on the season.
Of course all of this rests on Jimmy's ability to talk with men and get some straight answers.
WSS
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