Jonathan Paul Manziel
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What difference does it make ? Whatever he was doing, he wasn't on the field to support his teammates or for treatment of his alleged concussion. He bailed out at the end of a second season wanting NO part of the hungry steelers team. Doesn't matter where else he was.
What difference does it make ? Whatever he was doing, he wasn't on the field to support his teammates or for treatment of his alleged concussion. He bailed out at the end of a second season wanting NO part of the hungry steelers team. Doesn't matter where else he was.
concussion protocol forbid him from being on the field anyway, so it's really that huge a deal he missed a follow-up medical appt? not physical therapy or typical rehabbing, more like a screening. at year's end, season over, Coach and GM fired, NFL'S protocols not the team's, an irrelevant miss to the game vs the Steelers. was him clapping and cheering from the locker room gonna make the Browns win?
ever had a concussion? i've had several--they suck. there's nothing they can do for you, only time heals. just him flying was punishment in and of itself.
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A and? Like anybody should I'd like to know exactly what's going on. Wouldn't you? All we get is bullshit from Tony Grossi or Mary Kay Cabot or somebody's fucking twitter feed.
My bottom line is if the kid can play at the NFL level and wants to do so here it's good for the Cleveland Browns and I would like to see that facilitated if possible.
If he can't or he doesn't want to then do what we need to do.
B. Yes we did we change coaches and front office. You say we didn't change teammates? Well wait and see there.
C and it doesn't matter at all to you if it's actually alcohol or petulance? Come on dude. I know drugs, I know alcoholics, & I know assholes and I know guys that are a combination of the three. The levels matter.
I'm just curious as to what the inside story is. I don't think that's a ridiculous thing to wonder about.
And this isn't exactly a blue ribbon panel here, is a bunch of Browns fans. The most knowledgeable guy on the board probably knows less about the situation then the guy at the team commissary that orders the cream in the coaches coffee.
Let alone the guy that fetches it.
But just look at this thread Z Man. Half these guys are more concerned with how to fuck with a player they don't like then how to benefit the team.
WSS
the little misfit missed a team meeting moron. who gives a fuck one way or the other what the reason was.
the little misfit missed a team meeting moron. who gives a fuck one way or the other what the reason was.
and where the fuck do you see any improvement with is guy...he still throws across his body to recievers and still throws mostly offbalance...you dude fit right in with the jackass gm they just fired....
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A and? Like anybody should I'd like to know exactly what's going on. Wouldn't you? All we get is bullshit from Tony Grossi or Mary Kay Cabot or somebody's fucking twitter feed.
My bottom line is if the kid can play at the NFL level and wants to do so here it's good for the Cleveland Browns and I would like to see that facilitated if possible.
If he can't or he doesn't want to then do what we need to do.
B. Yes we did we change coaches and front office. You say we didn't change teammates? Well wait and see there.
C and it doesn't matter at all to you if it's actually alcohol or petulance? Come on dude. I know drugs, I know alcoholics, & I know assholes and I know guys that are a combination of the three. The levels matter.
I'm just curious as to what the inside story is. I don't think that's a ridiculous thing to wonder about.
And this isn't exactly a blue ribbon panel here, is a bunch of Browns fans. The most knowledgeable guy on the board probably knows less about the situation then the guy at the team commissary that orders the cream in the coaches coffee.
Let alone the guy that fetches it.
But just look at this thread Z Man. Half these guys are more concerned with how to fuck with a player they don't like then how to benefit the team.
WSS
the little misfit missed a team meeting moron. who gives a fuck one way or the other what the reason was.
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btw, what kind of ngr rule is it that if you have a concussion you can't stand on the sideline in your plain clothes? what possible sense can that make? are they worried about an errant pass smacking a player in the dome as he chats up his teammates?
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you can blow your knee out like Jayln Smith but still hobble out on crutches to root for your teammates, but you get a little bell rung and don't let us see your ass on the sideline?
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Ryan Leaf, one of the league's whipping boys, started 25 games over 4 years.
WSS
Not the greatest example because he only played 18 games over 2 years for the team that drafted him. Then they cut him. And one year he was out injured. And the 4th year was as a bench warmer with the Cowboys of all teams. And he was the #2 pick overall which should buy him a lot more credibility than Johnny does at the 23rd pick. So, if your saying JM should get the same chance that Leaf got and Leaf got cut after 18 games over 2 years, why cant the same happen to Johnny M?
So, if your saying JM should get the same chance that Leaf got and Leaf got cut after 18 games over 2 years, why cant the same happen to Johnny M?
Fair point....
And Ryan Leaf was a lot worse off the field then Johnny.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team.
Or...maybe he'll do as well in Dallas as Leaf did?...possible?
And Leaf wasnt a lot worse off the field.....no way.....but he had a lot of similarities to Johnny...as in year one when he was reprimanded for not learning the playbook....or how he flew to Las Vegas and partied all night(day before he was introduced) and then showed up to his press conference hungover and disinterested.....or how he missed team and league meetings, blamed teammates and coaches for his failures(Johnny doesnt, but his fans do), and overall, developed a reputation for not working hard or being committed to the team......THAT is what his problems were........
Coincidentally, he also lied to his coach about an injury.....got out of practice,,,,and then went golfing(sound almost familiar??)
He later spiraled out of control and ended up in Jail, but that was many years after being out of the league
My favorite comparison.....which I made over a year ago.....is Todd Marinovich. And Johnny is exactly in step with THAT stellar career.....22nd overall pick.....rehab at the end of year 1......relapse mid season of year 2.....erratic play through out....CUT after 2 years and only 8 games(see, not unprecedented, as other teams DO it too).....and, of course, out of the league.....
And, Id point out that the few teams that cut chase early, were usually right.....Leaf and Marinovich were as bad as they seemed.....
Mike Pettine leans heavily toward experience. Always choosing veterans over rookies or newcomers.
Sorry, I dont buy that at all..........Bowe, Johnny and Gilbert did not play.
30 other FA's, newcomers and draft picks did.
I think Coaches just prefer to play the good players and really dont care if they are Vets, rookies or newcomers.
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The guy didn't even get his plates renewed!!!
I don't want this loser running my football team!
I say bury him on the bench and let him rot there!!!
GO BROWNS
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looks like Johnny might have an alibi
It's being reported he got an expired tags ticket in Cleveland, down the road from the Browns facility...on the day he was "allegedly" in Vegas. Plot thickens.
looks like Johnny might have an alibi
It's being reported he got an expired tags ticket in Cleveland, down the road from the Browns facility...on the day he was "allegedly" in Vegas. Plot thickens.
It is already known that he was at Browns facility Saturday Morning.
He flew to Vegas Saturday..
Zombo
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Ryan Leaf, one of the league's whipping boys, started 25 games over 4 years.
WSS
Ryan Leaf, one of the league's whipping boys, started 25 games over 4 years.
WSS
And???
We should be the team to give him two more years to complete his Ryan Leaf act at the expense of our franchise?
Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud ... instead of a guy that blew off his first two years ... and then wasted two more?
Zombo
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Ryan Leaf, one of the league's whipping boys, started 25 games over 4 years.
WSS
And???
We should be the team to give him two more years to complete his Ryan Leaf act at the expense of our franchise?
Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud ... instead of a guy that blew off his first two years ... and then wasted two more?
Zombo
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Yes.......but, it's more important to be respected than popular as a leader.
Absolutely... great point... wish I had made it.
Would love to see video of Browns players who say they "like" JM, asked if they respect him in a follow up.
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Romo and Manziel are very different QB's. Would the Dallas OC have to install and the players have to learn TWO different offenses ?
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Ryan Leaf, one of the league's whipping boys, started 25 games over 4 years.
WSS
And???
We should be the team to give him two more years to complete his Ryan Leaf act at the expense of our franchise?
Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud ... instead of a guy that blew off his first two years ... and then wasted two more?
Zombo
Zombo said:
And???
We should be the team to give him two more years to complete his Ryan Leaf act at the expense of our franchise?
Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud ... instead of a guy that blew off his first two years ... and then wasted two more?
Zombo
Yes.
WSS
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Should? What I'm saying is that pulling the ripcord after this small amount of experience is probably jumping the gun. These guys are letting their emotions take over. And Ryan Leaf was a lot worse off the field then Johnny.
If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then...
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
WSS
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
WSS
i for one am concerned about that. i think he can win games and also believe he is an upgrade over Shaw, Davis, Devlin, Thigpen, Weeden, etc.
as our 3rd string backup QB he's most likely the most talented 3rd stringer in the league.
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And I will preface this as we should preface every discussion: if the reports can be believed...
First of all the journeyman was playing the best football of his life unfortunately that didn't show up in the win loss column.
Second, see the disclaimer, Mike Pettine leans heavily toward experience. Always choosing veterans over rookies or newcomers.
Third, that was the second PlayBook to learn. And he never played with the first one since they threw in a new offense for Cincinnati.
Fourth we know what happened. You and I differ on the value of experience vs discipline. Which I'm guessing will remain a sticking point.
Finally I believe rookies improve with playing time
WSS
And I will preface this as we should preface every discussion: if the reports can be believed...
*Everything I referred to is in the public record through press conferences.*
First of all the journeyman was playing the best football of his life unfortunately that didn't show up in the win loss column.
*True... no one said it'd be easy.*
Second, see the disclaimer, Mike Pettine leans heavily toward experience. Always choosing veterans over rookies or newcomers.
*Mud addressed this.*
Third, that was the second PlayBook to learn. And he never played with the first one since they threw in a new offense for Cincinnati.
*If changing from going under center to the pistol to run the same play is "a new offense" in JM's eyes, then I rest my case.*
Fourth we know what happened. You and I differ on the value of experience vs discipline. Which I'm guessing will remain a sticking point.
*Only if we spill the ale..*
Finally I believe rookies improve with playing time
*Generally? Yes, but it is not a given... and all positions are not equal.*
Coincidentally, he also lied to his coach about an injury.....got out of practice,,,,and then went golfing(sound almost familiar??)
I had forgotten about the golf caper... lol
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We have a Harvard Law Grad handling our salary cap and making personnel decisions. If he weighs the options, even he can see the best idea is just to get rid of him asap
in your idea of the best idea the Browns are the only losers while everyone else involved wins, subjecting the Browns and the fanbase to EVEN MORE ridicule and embarrassment.
time to simply turn the other cheek and allow the Tri-Lambs to spin this thing back into our favor. it's pretty hard to poke fun at someone who doesn't care.
in your idea of the best idea the Browns are the only losers while everyone else involved wins, subjecting the Browns and the fanbase to EVEN MORE ridicule and embarrassment.
time to simply turn the other cheek and allow the Tri-Lambs to spin this thing back into our favor. it's pretty hard to poke fun at someone who doesn't care.
If you think the guy is worthless, and trouble with a capital T, why waste a roster spot on Johnny until he self destructs?
Zombo said:
And??
THAT makes it OK for the starting QB to fly out of town before his teammates get ready to play a rivalry game and skip a treatment meeting?
I haven't been following along here real closely, but ... Your are still not defending this guy are you?
I mean if it's the alcohol, you cut bait but you hope for the best ... if he's just a petulant shithead you hope he never plays in this league again.
We didn't change owners ... we didn't change teammates ... do you think there is anyone left in the organization that trusts this guy?
Zombo
Short answer, NO. Supposedly Chonnine got a real cool reception on his post season interview. MHO is the Browns have had enough of his act.
Should? What I'm saying is that pulling the ripcord after this small amount of experience is probably jumping the gun. These guys are letting their emotions take over. And Ryan Leaf was a lot worse off the field then Johnny.
If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then...
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
WSS
Steve, we don't know all the behind the scenes stuff regarding Manziel- but the Browns sure as hell do. The guy wasted his first year here, then went to rehab (um Haslam & company know the reason why), and then when handed the keys to the car, promptly gave Pettine the finger, and lied about it. Probably lying about the Vegas junket. If you have some knowledge of alcoholics, you have to know lying to cover their ass is a universal trait.
At this point it doesn't matter if Manziel can play meaningful snaps again in the NFL- he's not worth the risk. Now if he manages to clean up his act and become a decent qb for another team, that would be the Browns luck. I'm sure Sashi's analytics are already spinning the risk\reward of keeping Manziel around.
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Should? What I'm saying is that pulling the ripcord after this small amount of experience is probably jumping the gun. These guys are letting their emotions take over. And Ryan Leaf was a lot worse off the field then Johnny.
If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then...
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
WSS
If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then...
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
I like my odds enough to bid him farewell... ASAP...
While I cannot say I can see him doing "well" in Jerrahland, I could see him doing better... at least as well as Wheezy... maybe as well as Cassell.
Supposedly Chonnine got a real cool reception on his post season interview.
WTF is "Chonnine"? And what is it's origin?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Johnny was not in Vegas, The guy in Vegas was Billy why don't you understand that?
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Watching Goff the things that impress me are his pocket awareness and touch on passes. It seems like he almost glides away from rushers - certainly not shedding tacklers like Big Ben. And it seems like he puts the right touch on every throw, not missing the easy ones to the RB in space for example, but still finding the receiver coming across the middle with mustard.
Yep...there's very little to not like. Operating from the pocket just looks so natural to him, with eyes always downfield and scanning, he physically always moves his body when scanning similar to how an Aaron Rodgers does. And he's deadly accurate short/medium/deep range, and tends to make the right reads. Most of the interceptions seem like they just come from trying to force in too tight a window (too much confidence) or tipped pass.
He has a set of qualities that most QBs just can't learn and have to either overcome in other ways, become a backup, or retire early.
Yep...there's very little to not like. Operating from the pocket just looks so natural to him, with eyes always downfield and scanning, he physically always moves his body when scanning similar to how an Aaron Rodgers does. And he's deadly accurate short/medium/deep range, and tends to make the right reads. Most of the interceptions seem like they just come from trying to force in too tight a window (too much confidence) or tipped pass.
He has a set of qualities that most QBs just can't learn and have to either overcome in other ways, become a backup, or retire early.
I agree that Goff has a lot of attributes to like. On one of his highlight reels, on the second throw, he feels the pressure while rolling to his right. He then rifles the ball way down field and hits his WR in stride for a 70 yard td. Oh, and it was when his team was down 7 with 2 minutes to go or something. I know it's one play, and highlights can make anyone look good, but that one throw shows a LOT. Like you said, he scans down the field. He appears natural in the pocket and very fluid. I've read reports that he doesn't have the strongest arm, but it looks pretty damn good to me. The biggest pill to swallow is...do we REALLY want to pull his card at the #2 pick? That's a humongous investment, and we have so many holes. Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit. Of course, Goff could come in and immediately win the job, so who knows. I'll put it to you like this...I wouldn't be upset if we took the kid.
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