Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Ryan Leaf, one of the league's whipping boys, started 25 games over 4 years.
WSS
Not the greatest example because he only played 18 games over 2 years for the team that drafted him. Then they cut him. And one year he was out injured. And the 4th year was as a bench warmer with the Cowboys of all teams. And he was the #2 pick overall which should buy him a lot more credibility than Johnny does at the 23rd pick. So, if your saying JM should get the same chance that Leaf got and Leaf got cut after 18 games over 2 years, why cant the same happen to Johnny M?
So, if your saying JM should get the same chance that Leaf got and Leaf got cut after 18 games over 2 years, why cant the same happen to Johnny M?
Fair point....
And Ryan Leaf was a lot worse off the field then Johnny.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team.
Or...maybe he'll do as well in Dallas as Leaf did?...possible?
And Leaf wasnt a lot worse off the field.....no way.....but he had a lot of similarities to Johnny...as in year one when he was reprimanded for not learning the playbook....or how he flew to Las Vegas and partied all night(day before he was introduced) and then showed up to his press conference hungover and disinterested.....or how he missed team and league meetings, blamed teammates and coaches for his failures(Johnny doesnt, but his fans do), and overall, developed a reputation for not working hard or being committed to the team......THAT is what his problems were........
Coincidentally, he also lied to his coach about an injury.....got out of practice,,,,and then went golfing(sound almost familiar??)
He later spiraled out of control and ended up in Jail, but that was many years after being out of the league
My favorite comparison.....which I made over a year ago.....is Todd Marinovich. And Johnny is exactly in step with THAT stellar career.....22nd overall pick.....rehab at the end of year 1......relapse mid season of year 2.....erratic play through out....CUT after 2 years and only 8 games(see, not unprecedented, as other teams DO it too).....and, of course, out of the league.....
And, Id point out that the few teams that cut chase early, were usually right.....Leaf and Marinovich were as bad as they seemed.....
Mike Pettine leans heavily toward experience. Always choosing veterans over rookies or newcomers.
Sorry, I dont buy that at all..........Bowe, Johnny and Gilbert did not play.
30 other FA's, newcomers and draft picks did.
I think Coaches just prefer to play the good players and really dont care if they are Vets, rookies or newcomers.
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The guy didn't even get his plates renewed!!!
I don't want this loser running my football team!
I say bury him on the bench and let him rot there!!!
GO BROWNS
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looks like Johnny might have an alibi
It's being reported he got an expired tags ticket in Cleveland, down the road from the Browns facility...on the day he was "allegedly" in Vegas. Plot thickens.
looks like Johnny might have an alibi
It's being reported he got an expired tags ticket in Cleveland, down the road from the Browns facility...on the day he was "allegedly" in Vegas. Plot thickens.
It is already known that he was at Browns facility Saturday Morning.
He flew to Vegas Saturday..
Zombo
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Ryan Leaf, one of the league's whipping boys, started 25 games over 4 years.
WSS
Ryan Leaf, one of the league's whipping boys, started 25 games over 4 years.
WSS
And???
We should be the team to give him two more years to complete his Ryan Leaf act at the expense of our franchise?
Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud ... instead of a guy that blew off his first two years ... and then wasted two more?
Zombo
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Ryan Leaf, one of the league's whipping boys, started 25 games over 4 years.
WSS
And???
We should be the team to give him two more years to complete his Ryan Leaf act at the expense of our franchise?
Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud ... instead of a guy that blew off his first two years ... and then wasted two more?
Zombo
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Yes.......but, it's more important to be respected than popular as a leader.
Absolutely... great point... wish I had made it.
Would love to see video of Browns players who say they "like" JM, asked if they respect him in a follow up.
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Romo and Manziel are very different QB's. Would the Dallas OC have to install and the players have to learn TWO different offenses ?
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Ryan Leaf, one of the league's whipping boys, started 25 games over 4 years.
WSS
And???
We should be the team to give him two more years to complete his Ryan Leaf act at the expense of our franchise?
Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud ... instead of a guy that blew off his first two years ... and then wasted two more?
Zombo
Zombo said:
And???
We should be the team to give him two more years to complete his Ryan Leaf act at the expense of our franchise?
Shouldn't you be looking for an example of a guy who blew off his first two years and then became a stud ... instead of a guy that blew off his first two years ... and then wasted two more?
Zombo
Yes.
WSS
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Should? What I'm saying is that pulling the ripcord after this small amount of experience is probably jumping the gun. These guys are letting their emotions take over. And Ryan Leaf was a lot worse off the field then Johnny.
If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then...
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
WSS
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
WSS
i for one am concerned about that. i think he can win games and also believe he is an upgrade over Shaw, Davis, Devlin, Thigpen, Weeden, etc.
as our 3rd string backup QB he's most likely the most talented 3rd stringer in the league.
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And I will preface this as we should preface every discussion: if the reports can be believed...
First of all the journeyman was playing the best football of his life unfortunately that didn't show up in the win loss column.
Second, see the disclaimer, Mike Pettine leans heavily toward experience. Always choosing veterans over rookies or newcomers.
Third, that was the second PlayBook to learn. And he never played with the first one since they threw in a new offense for Cincinnati.
Fourth we know what happened. You and I differ on the value of experience vs discipline. Which I'm guessing will remain a sticking point.
Finally I believe rookies improve with playing time
WSS
And I will preface this as we should preface every discussion: if the reports can be believed...
*Everything I referred to is in the public record through press conferences.*
First of all the journeyman was playing the best football of his life unfortunately that didn't show up in the win loss column.
*True... no one said it'd be easy.*
Second, see the disclaimer, Mike Pettine leans heavily toward experience. Always choosing veterans over rookies or newcomers.
*Mud addressed this.*
Third, that was the second PlayBook to learn. And he never played with the first one since they threw in a new offense for Cincinnati.
*If changing from going under center to the pistol to run the same play is "a new offense" in JM's eyes, then I rest my case.*
Fourth we know what happened. You and I differ on the value of experience vs discipline. Which I'm guessing will remain a sticking point.
*Only if we spill the ale..*
Finally I believe rookies improve with playing time
*Generally? Yes, but it is not a given... and all positions are not equal.*
Coincidentally, he also lied to his coach about an injury.....got out of practice,,,,and then went golfing(sound almost familiar??)
I had forgotten about the golf caper... lol
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We have a Harvard Law Grad handling our salary cap and making personnel decisions. If he weighs the options, even he can see the best idea is just to get rid of him asap
in your idea of the best idea the Browns are the only losers while everyone else involved wins, subjecting the Browns and the fanbase to EVEN MORE ridicule and embarrassment.
time to simply turn the other cheek and allow the Tri-Lambs to spin this thing back into our favor. it's pretty hard to poke fun at someone who doesn't care.
in your idea of the best idea the Browns are the only losers while everyone else involved wins, subjecting the Browns and the fanbase to EVEN MORE ridicule and embarrassment.
time to simply turn the other cheek and allow the Tri-Lambs to spin this thing back into our favor. it's pretty hard to poke fun at someone who doesn't care.
If you think the guy is worthless, and trouble with a capital T, why waste a roster spot on Johnny until he self destructs?
Zombo said:
And??
THAT makes it OK for the starting QB to fly out of town before his teammates get ready to play a rivalry game and skip a treatment meeting?
I haven't been following along here real closely, but ... Your are still not defending this guy are you?
I mean if it's the alcohol, you cut bait but you hope for the best ... if he's just a petulant shithead you hope he never plays in this league again.
We didn't change owners ... we didn't change teammates ... do you think there is anyone left in the organization that trusts this guy?
Zombo
Short answer, NO. Supposedly Chonnine got a real cool reception on his post season interview. MHO is the Browns have had enough of his act.
Should? What I'm saying is that pulling the ripcord after this small amount of experience is probably jumping the gun. These guys are letting their emotions take over. And Ryan Leaf was a lot worse off the field then Johnny.
If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then...
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
WSS
Steve, we don't know all the behind the scenes stuff regarding Manziel- but the Browns sure as hell do. The guy wasted his first year here, then went to rehab (um Haslam & company know the reason why), and then when handed the keys to the car, promptly gave Pettine the finger, and lied about it. Probably lying about the Vegas junket. If you have some knowledge of alcoholics, you have to know lying to cover their ass is a universal trait.
At this point it doesn't matter if Manziel can play meaningful snaps again in the NFL- he's not worth the risk. Now if he manages to clean up his act and become a decent qb for another team, that would be the Browns luck. I'm sure Sashi's analytics are already spinning the risk\reward of keeping Manziel around.
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Should? What I'm saying is that pulling the ripcord after this small amount of experience is probably jumping the gun. These guys are letting their emotions take over. And Ryan Leaf was a lot worse off the field then Johnny.
If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then...
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
WSS
If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then...
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
I like my odds enough to bid him farewell... ASAP...
While I cannot say I can see him doing "well" in Jerrahland, I could see him doing better... at least as well as Wheezy... maybe as well as Cassell.
Supposedly Chonnine got a real cool reception on his post season interview.
WTF is "Chonnine"? And what is it's origin?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Johnny was not in Vegas, The guy in Vegas was Billy why don't you understand that?
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Watching Goff the things that impress me are his pocket awareness and touch on passes. It seems like he almost glides away from rushers - certainly not shedding tacklers like Big Ben. And it seems like he puts the right touch on every throw, not missing the easy ones to the RB in space for example, but still finding the receiver coming across the middle with mustard.
Yep...there's very little to not like. Operating from the pocket just looks so natural to him, with eyes always downfield and scanning, he physically always moves his body when scanning similar to how an Aaron Rodgers does. And he's deadly accurate short/medium/deep range, and tends to make the right reads. Most of the interceptions seem like they just come from trying to force in too tight a window (too much confidence) or tipped pass.
He has a set of qualities that most QBs just can't learn and have to either overcome in other ways, become a backup, or retire early.
Yep...there's very little to not like. Operating from the pocket just looks so natural to him, with eyes always downfield and scanning, he physically always moves his body when scanning similar to how an Aaron Rodgers does. And he's deadly accurate short/medium/deep range, and tends to make the right reads. Most of the interceptions seem like they just come from trying to force in too tight a window (too much confidence) or tipped pass.
He has a set of qualities that most QBs just can't learn and have to either overcome in other ways, become a backup, or retire early.
I agree that Goff has a lot of attributes to like. On one of his highlight reels, on the second throw, he feels the pressure while rolling to his right. He then rifles the ball way down field and hits his WR in stride for a 70 yard td. Oh, and it was when his team was down 7 with 2 minutes to go or something. I know it's one play, and highlights can make anyone look good, but that one throw shows a LOT. Like you said, he scans down the field. He appears natural in the pocket and very fluid. I've read reports that he doesn't have the strongest arm, but it looks pretty damn good to me. The biggest pill to swallow is...do we REALLY want to pull his card at the #2 pick? That's a humongous investment, and we have so many holes. Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit. Of course, Goff could come in and immediately win the job, so who knows. I'll put it to you like this...I wouldn't be upset if we took the kid.
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Yep...there's very little to not like. Operating from the pocket just looks so natural to him, with eyes always downfield and scanning, he physically always moves his body when scanning similar to how an Aaron Rodgers does. And he's deadly accurate short/medium/deep range, and tends to make the right reads. Most of the interceptions seem like they just come from trying to force in too tight a window (too much confidence) or tipped pass.
He has a set of qualities that most QBs just can't learn and have to either overcome in other ways, become a backup, or retire early.
I agree that Goff has a lot of attributes to like. On one of his highlight reels, on the second throw, he feels the pressure while rolling to his right. He then rifles the ball way down field and hits his WR in stride for a 70 yard td. Oh, and it was when his team was down 7 with 2 minutes to go or something. I know it's one play, and highlights can make anyone look good, but that one throw shows a LOT. Like you said, he scans down the field. He appears natural in the pocket and very fluid. I've read reports that he doesn't have the strongest arm, but it looks pretty damn good to me. The biggest pill to swallow is...do we REALLY want to pull his card at the #2 pick? That's a humongous investment, and we have so many holes. Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit. Of course, Goff could come in and immediately win the job, so who knows. I'll put it to you like this...I wouldn't be upset if we took the kid.
I agree that Goff has a lot of attributes to like. On one of his highlight reels, on the second throw, he feels the pressure while rolling to his right. He then rifles the ball way down field and hits his WR in stride for a 70 yard td. Oh, and it was when his team was down 7 with 2 minutes to go or something. I know it's one play, and highlights can make anyone look good, but that one throw shows a LOT. Like you said, he scans down the field. He appears natural in the pocket and very fluid. I've read reports that he doesn't have the strongest arm, but it looks pretty damn good to me. The biggest pill to swallow is...do we REALLY want to pull his card at the #2 pick? That's a humongous investment, and we have so many holes. Add in the fact that there is a good chance Goff wouldn't beat out McCown for a year, and it gets messy. Our roster needs immediate impact players. It'd be difficult to take someone that early and have him sit. Of course, Goff could come in and immediately win the job, so who knows. I'll put it to you like this...I wouldn't be upset if we took the kid.
I think that history/statistics would show that it's a lot easier to find impact players or stars at literally every position than it is to find a franchise QB. It might be an exponential curve as you get to the bottom of the draft too. Occasionally you get a Russell Wilson and once in a life time you get a Tom Brady but not often. But you can find somebody like Jared Allen in the 4th round a lot more often.
That's just why I think if Goff is the guy you take him there. "But we don't have an elite pass rush" "We have McCown" don't seem like too good of reasons to pass on him IMO as some seem to think
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in your idea of the best idea the Browns are the only losers while everyone else involved wins, subjecting the Browns and the fanbase to EVEN MORE ridicule and embarrassment.
time to simply turn the other cheek and allow the Tri-Lambs to spin this thing back into our favor. it's pretty hard to poke fun at someone who doesn't care.
If you think the guy is worthless, and trouble with a capital T, why waste a roster spot on Johnny until he self destructs?
Zombo said:
And??
THAT makes it OK for the starting QB to fly out of town before his teammates get ready to play a rivalry game and skip a treatment meeting?
I haven't been following along here real closely, but ... Your are still not defending this guy are you?
I mean if it's the alcohol, you cut bait but you hope for the best ... if he's just a petulant shithead you hope he never plays in this league again.
We didn't change owners ... we didn't change teammates ... do you think there is anyone left in the organization that trusts this guy?
Zombo
Short answer, NO. Supposedly Chonnine got a real cool reception on his post season interview. MHO is the Browns have had enough of his act.
Should? What I'm saying is that pulling the ripcord after this small amount of experience is probably jumping the gun. These guys are letting their emotions take over. And Ryan Leaf was a lot worse off the field then Johnny.
If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then...
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
WSS
Steve, we don't know all the behind the scenes stuff regarding Manziel- but the Browns sure as hell do. The guy wasted his first year here, then went to rehab (um Haslam & company know the reason why), and then when handed the keys to the car, promptly gave Pettine the finger, and lied about it. Probably lying about the Vegas junket. If you have some knowledge of alcoholics, you have to know lying to cover their ass is a universal trait.
At this point it doesn't matter if Manziel can play meaningful snaps again in the NFL- he's not worth the risk. Now if he manages to clean up his act and become a decent qb for another team, that would be the Browns luck. I'm sure Sashi's analytics are already spinning the risk\reward of keeping Manziel around.
If you think the guy is worthless, and trouble with a capital T, why waste a roster spot on Johnny until he self destructs?
i don't think he's worthless on the field at all, actually i think he's way above average as a #3 QB.
i don't think he's trouble w a capital T, just an immature celebrity who has his priorities other places than how we would like the face of the Brown's franchise to conduct himself...and possibly an addict. as you correctly stated he is self-destructive more than a threat to others. would we prefer if our QB were a two time rapist [at least] or maybe a dog abuser perhaps?
what's the hurry, there are roster spots available in spades for the next 8+ months? he's already bought and paid for. cutting him now benefits him and potentially other teams. if you are gonna cut him do it late summer when roster spots are at a premium and so if another team signs him he's coming in way late and has to learn on the fly. why not make it hard for he and others to succeed rather than paving the way w an entire off season ahead of him?
he's shown flashes of talent and ability to drive the team down the field and score TDs rather than field goals, and without having to helicopter himself across the line. what was that a 22 play drive he led?? it was easily the longest in franchise history by several plays...with a below avg receiving core, Crow, and a rookie RB, but i guess that's easy to do and means nada. for a short QB he finds throwing lanes and had a fraction of the balls Weedz had batted down even though Wheezy is like 5" taller, for example.
because as you stated, chances are he will self destruct. i'd rather wait and see if he does or not until the very last minute. giving up early makes the Browns look like they failed rather than seeing for sure if he truly is a failure. the offseason can be a kind of probationary period leading up thru camp to next season. who knows, maybe he turns it around and feels indebted to us for sticking w him and if pressed into action plays all world for us. which brings me to my last points.
because the Browns play in the AFCN where they need as many QBs on the team that can win games as possible. because of this, he has value regardless of his off the field childish shenanigans that may bring national attention and ridicule, but in reality at least aren't crimes or dangerous to others. seriously, like the Browns national image is respected by otherd and untarnished or something. we look worse if we give up. we make him fetch coffee for a while we reclaim just a little respect back at least.
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Johnny confuses me. He was out at Dave & Busters last night. So during the season, you skip the game to go to Vegas but after the year when you have no obligations your playing arcade games at Dave & Busters?
Johnny confuses me. He was out at Dave & Busters last night. So during the season, you skip the game to go to Vegas but after the year when you have no obligations your playing arcade games at Dave & Busters?
all part of his celebrity and what makes Johnny Manziel Johnny Motha Fukin Football.
he's atypical and impractical and does whatever the fuck he wants, don't try to reason it out you'll hurt your head. moxy can't be bought, faked, or learned...it just is. his id (Freud) makes the calls for this maniac.
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Shaw is a better #3 QB than Johnny. And he costs less.
To the other question about why he couldn't wait a week to go to vegas.
Person: "Hey Johnny you HAVE to come to Vegas this Saturday we're gonna have cocaine and four lokos and strippers"
Johnny: "Well you know I got a game to play"
Person: "Screw that bro"
Johnny: "You're right, I'm too hungover for this shit"
Johnny: "Hey guys, I have a concussion - put me in the protocol thanks, can't play"
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Shaw sucks...in my opinion.
and Johnny doesn't cost any more than him, that money is spent. that money is already gone and nothing besides a trade will get any of it back.
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