Goff Or Lynch @2?
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One final thing about taking a qb @ #2. I looked at the draft value chart. If the Titans want to sucker us into moving up to #1 overall to guarantee our guy, here's the (realistic) cost.
Browns- our third, and next years second round. (if we're building through the draft, not gonna happen.) Should the following jump us, we'll just take Bosa, or the qb they don't take- assuming we like him enough.
Cowboys- their first, second, and next years first.
49ers- probably three firsts.
One final thing about taking a qb @ #2. I looked at the draft value chart. If the Titans want to sucker us into moving up to #1 overall to guarantee our guy, here's the (realistic) cost.
Browns- our third, and next years second round. (if we're building through the draft, not gonna happen.) Should the following jump us, we'll just take Bosa, or the qb they don't take- assuming we like him enough.
Cowboys- their first, second, and next years first.
49ers- probably three firsts.
I don't see the Cowboys doing that...they're in win now mode with Romo. Giving up this year's second and next years' first means giving up two instant impact players for a QB who won't start for at least a couple of years.
The Chargers are likely taking an OT, depending on what the Titans do at 1 the Cowboys will be left with one of Bosa/Goff/Lynch.
There's a few interesting tradeback scenarios for the Titans and Chargers though...
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Hue jackson is a nice hire bit I'm not sure how you guys are so hyped up about the draft when Cleveland's actual, winning, superstar team, your Cleveland Cavaliers have a huge game against the spurs tonight. It's a travesty that the cavs get so little play here when they're giving us so much to actually feel good about. Go Cavs!
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Hue jackson is a nice hire bit I'm not sure how you guys are so hyped up about the draft when Cleveland's actual, winning, superstar team, your Cleveland Cavaliers have a huge game against the spurs tonight. It's a travesty that the cavs get so little play here when they're giving us so much to actually feel good about. Go Cavs!
Hue jackson is a nice hire bit I'm not sure how you guys are so hyped up about the draft when Cleveland's actual, winning, superstar team, your Cleveland Cavaliers have a huge game against the spurs tonight. It's a travesty that the cavs get so little play here when they're giving us so much to actually feel good about. Go Cavs!
Personally I hate basketball. Therefore I'm not as excited about the Cavaliers As I am the Browns.
WSS
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It's basketball, which is kinda sucky. But outside of that, this is a browns forum, not shocking that one gets much more attention.
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Hue jackson is a nice hire bit I'm not sure how you guys are so hyped up about the draft when Cleveland's actual, winning, superstar team, your Cleveland Cavaliers have a huge game against the spurs tonight. It's a travesty that the cavs get so little play here when they're giving us so much to actually feel good about. Go Cavs!
Personally I hate basketball. Therefore I'm not as excited about the Cavaliers As I am the Browns.
WSS
I used to feel that way until I started giving it a fair chance. Now I can say that it's a great game to watch. Much more dynamic and exciting than all other major sports that aren't football.Personally I hate basketball. Therefore I'm not as excited about the Cavaliers As I am the Browns.
WSS
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It's basketball, which is kinda sucky. But outside of that, this is a browns forum, not shocking that one gets much more attention.
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The browns will always be number one in my heart but they are done and there ain't squat going on for months. Meanwhile the best team in town is tearing it up right now.
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Neither were Brady Quinn, Brian Hoyer, Brandon Weeden, Jason Campbell, Charlie Frye, Josh McCown, Connor Shaw, Austin Davis or anybody else. Now shall we hearken back to the words of wisdom of Frank Morgan in The Wizard of Oz when he said : "But they've got one thing you haven't got; a price tag of the second pick of the NFL Draft!"
WSS
True enough Steve- but we haven't drafted a qb in the top 5 since Couch. Other than Quinn, none of those guys had the aspirations you're going to put on a #2 overall pick. Remember my "It's a sin if we draft Quinn"? I cringed when we drafted Wee-Done, thought it was a desperation move by Homgren- right again. I was probably the #1 Manziel critic pre-draft. Damn, I'm about as smart as those chickens that outsmarted Farmer.
I've been raving about Goff more than any QB prospect we've had a chance at in nearly forever.
He's gotten better every year at Cal, but he also has the smarts, footwork, mechanics, accuracy, etc. to match. Best by far in this QB class at basically everything if you watch him from a technical standpoint.
Lynch is...OK.
Big slinger, I think he's a less athletic Kaepernick type of guy. Has a lot more problems out of the box than Goff, also has the fact he worked in a system that is pretty dumb by NFL standards. Lots of very simple reads or quick decisions, the type of systems you see the Brandon Weedens and Johnny Manziels come from.
Goff played primarily in a spread-type system too, but albeit a much more complex one. He actually had to change plays at the line, make much more complicated reads. Basically it gave Goff a lot more control over what was going to happen compared to the system Lynch was in.
Lynch might be worthy of a late first-round pick. I probably wouldn't touch him until the 2nd or later.
Goff is worth the #1 overall pick.
Maybe. I'm on board with the previous posters- if we lose 60% of our starting o-line, you're going to be putting Goff in a Derek Carr situation.
Agree... Goff's floor is franchise level... book it. I can't remember the last draft when I said that of a QB prospect. (Luck? Yes, but I thought his floor was higher than "franchise".) Draft position is all about odds and Goff rings the bell.
But even that is not enough to take him top five or even top ten. What makes him Top Two is he has upside... he is franchise-plus.
Here's his DraftBreakdown page with six-2015 games. For those who would pass on him... spend some time... see for yourselves... if you have not already.
I'll watch more of that link later Tour. My initial impressions- he sure has the arm. Looks to have decent pocket awareness. Accurate throwing on the run. Cal AD praised him when he announced as "a high character guy." Concerns? He has a Sam Bradford build at 6'4" 210, doesn't mean he can't add another 10 pounds. Johnny Scramble he isn't, kinda reminds me of Bernie Kosar.
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Don't get too full of yourself pal, anybody over 15 years or so turned out to be right if they predicted the Browns would suck and can pat themselves on the back and boast.True enough Steve- but we haven't drafted a qb in the top 5 since Couch. Other than Quinn, none of those guys had the aspirations you're going to put on a #2 overall pick. Remember my "It's a sin if we draft Quinn"? I cringed when we drafted Wee-Done, thought it was a desperation move by Homgren- right again. I was probably the #1 Manziel critic pre-draft. Damn, I'm about as smart as those chickens that outsmarted Farmer.
.
And when we fail every year we reset everything we're doing the year before like a video game except it doesn't seem like anybody remembers where the monsters are hiding when you start over.
We get a boner listening to Mel Kiper so we pretend it's been the quarterback that's been keeping us down all these years.
So we haven't drafted a top 5 quarterback? That's true. And Jared Goff wouldn't be a top 5 quarterback in any recent draft.
And when you say the Cowboys wouldn't give up a bunch of pics for a quarterback that's not going to start for two years are you kidding? Not that I think they'd be wise to mortgage the ranch on him but somebody new is going to start within the next two years. Tony Romo isn't getting any healthier.
You also mention other shitty teams have drafted quarterbacks. Yes. Still in last place in the NFC South, and the team that drafts before us this year drafted big-name Hot Shot superstar quarterbacks. Everybody's boyfriend Bilgewater wasn't a top five pick and the only reason the Vikings havent sucked too badly is that they've had plenty of other first-rate weapons.
The Faguars didn't finish in the basement just because they've got the other hotshot quarterback in their division, and they are still the shittiest team in football. Still only won 2 more games than we did.
And no team with a highly rated quarterback runs the ball as poorly, stop the run and/or defend the pass as poorly as the Cleveland Browns.
And even the lowly Houston dumbass Texans got to the playoffs with bums under center.
Everybody talks about the elite teams but the one thread that runs through them is consistency.
And if you guys think Jared Goff or Paxton Lynch aren't going to start the first year you are dreaming.
Especially if Joe Thomas wants out, Mack leaves and Mitchell Schwartz gets a golden parachute from somebody. Hell even with them we couldn't run the ball or protect the quarterback. Imagine three Cameron Irving's on the front line...
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Don't get too full of yourself pal, anybody over 15 years or so turned out to be right if they predicted the Browns would suck and can pat themselves on the back and boast.True enough Steve- but we haven't drafted a qb in the top 5 since Couch. Other than Quinn, none of those guys had the aspirations you're going to put on a #2 overall pick. Remember my "It's a sin if we draft Quinn"? I cringed when we drafted Wee-Done, thought it was a desperation move by Homgren- right again. I was probably the #1 Manziel critic pre-draft. Damn, I'm about as smart as those chickens that outsmarted Farmer.
.
And when we fail every year we reset everything we're doing the year before like a video game except it doesn't seem like anybody remembers where the monsters are hiding when you start over.
We get a boner listening to Mel Kiper so we pretend it's been the quarterback that's been keeping us down all these years.
So we haven't drafted a top 5 quarterback? That's true. And Jared Goff wouldn't be a top 5 quarterback in any recent draft.
And when you say the Cowboys wouldn't give up a bunch of pics for a quarterback that's not going to start for two years are you kidding? Not that I think they'd be wise to mortgage the ranch on him but somebody new is going to start within the next two years. Tony Romo isn't getting any healthier.
You also mention other shitty teams have drafted quarterbacks. Yes. Still in last place in the NFC South, and the team that drafts before us this year drafted big-name Hot Shot superstar quarterbacks. Everybody's boyfriend Bilgewater wasn't a top five pick and the only reason the Vikings havent sucked too badly is that they've had plenty of other first-rate weapons.
The Faguars didn't finish in the basement just because they've got the other hotshot quarterback in their division, and they are still the shittiest team in football. Still only won 2 more games than we did.
And no team with a highly rated quarterback runs the ball as poorly, stop the run and/or defend the pass as poorly as the Cleveland Browns.
And even the lowly Houston dumbass Texans got to the playoffs with bums under center.
Everybody talks about the elite teams but the one thread that runs through them is consistency.
And if you guys think Jared Goff or Paxton Lynch aren't going to start the first year you are dreaming.
Especially if Joe Thomas wants out, Mack leaves and Mitchell Schwartz gets a golden parachute from somebody. Hell even with them we couldn't run the ball or protect the quarterback. Imagine three Cameron Irving's on the front line...
WSS
To be fair the Texans play in a crappy division with other perennial losers where as we play in a division with two and sometimes three bullies/perennial playoff teams.Don't get too full of yourself pal, anybody over 15 years or so turned out to be right if they predicted the Browns would suck and can pat themselves on the back and boast.
And when we fail every year we reset everything we're doing the year before like a video game except it doesn't seem like anybody remembers where the monsters are hiding when you start over.
We get a boner listening to Mel Kiper so we pretend it's been the quarterback that's been keeping us down all these years.
So we haven't drafted a top 5 quarterback? That's true. And Jared Goff wouldn't be a top 5 quarterback in any recent draft.
And when you say the Cowboys wouldn't give up a bunch of pics for a quarterback that's not going to start for two years are you kidding? Not that I think they'd be wise to mortgage the ranch on him but somebody new is going to start within the next two years. Tony Romo isn't getting any healthier.
You also mention other shitty teams have drafted quarterbacks. Yes. Still in last place in the NFC South, and the team that drafts before us this year drafted big-name Hot Shot superstar quarterbacks. Everybody's boyfriend Bilgewater wasn't a top five pick and the only reason the Vikings havent sucked too badly is that they've had plenty of other first-rate weapons.
The Faguars didn't finish in the basement just because they've got the other hotshot quarterback in their division, one of the shittiest ones in football. Still only won 2 more games than we did.
And no team with a highly rated quarterback runs the ball as poorly, stop the run and/or defend the pass as poorly as the Cleveland Browns.
And even the lowly Houston dumbass Texans got to the playoffs with bums under center.
Everybody talks about the elite teams but the one thread that runs through them is consistency.
And if you guys think Jared Goff or Paxton Lynch aren't going to start the first year you are dreaming.
Especially if Joe Thomas wants out, Mack leaves and Mitchell Schwartz gets a golden parachute from somebody. Hell even with them we couldn't run the ball or protect the quarterback. Imagine three Cameron Irving's on the front line...
WSS
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Hue jackson is a nice hire bit I'm not sure how you guys are so hyped up about the draft when Cleveland's actual, winning, superstar team, your Cleveland Cavaliers have a huge game against the spurs tonight. It's a travesty that the cavs get so little play here when they're giving us so much to actually feel good about. Go Cavs!
Hue jackson is a nice hire bit I'm not sure how you guys are so hyped up about the draft when Cleveland's actual, winning, superstar team, your Cleveland Cavaliers have a huge game against the spurs tonight. It's a travesty that the cavs get so little play here when they're giving us so much to actually feel good about. Go Cavs!
I'm all about the cavs, my cousin is actually heading to San Antonio today and going to the game. I think it's just hard to follow it too closely until after the all star break.
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I don't even know what these guys look like. I understand Goff is the more accurate pro-ready one and Lynch is kinda the prototype that needs some coaching up, if that's true then Goff is probably the leader in the clubhouse , but things change. I remember when Aaron Rodgers was the concensus #1 over Alex Smith, but by the time they over-analyzed them Smith went 1st and Rodgers in the mid 20's.
I'll probably get into the draft once we know who our Coach, staff and Personnel guy are going to be.
If one of these guys is truly a top ten grade then pick him at #2 and don't look back. I assume neither are deceptive midget drunks that can't learn a playbook or see over their linemen. So that's a step in the right direction.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I don't even know what these guys look like. I understand Goff is the more accurate pro-ready one and Lynch is kinda the prototype that needs some coaching up, if that's true then Goff is probably the leader in the clubhouse , but things change. I remember when Aaron Rodgers was the concensus #1 over Alex Smith, but by the time they over-analyzed them Smith went 1st and Rodgers in the mid 20's.
I'll probably get into the draft once we know who our Coach, staff and Personnel guy are going to be.
If one of these guys is truly a top ten grade then pick him at #2 and don't look back. I assume neither are deceptive midget drunks that can't learn a playbook or see over their linemen. So that's a step in the right direction.
Zombo
good post..Lynch is stronger and has the better arm Goff more pro ready.....Wentz will also go in the 1st so drafting either Goff or Lynch is a lock...Ginger or Mary ann? you win either way
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Zombo said:
I don't even know what these guys look like. I understand Goff is the more accurate pro-ready one and Lynch is kinda the prototype that needs some coaching up, if that's true then Goff is probably the leader in the clubhouse , but things change. I remember when Aaron Rodgers was the concensus #1 over Alex Smith, but by the time they over-analyzed them Smith went 1st and Rodgers in the mid 20's.
I'll probably get into the draft once we know who our Coach, staff and Personnel guy are going to be.
If one of these guys is truly a top ten grade then pick him at #2 and don't look back. I assume neither are deceptive midget drunks that can't learn a playbook or see over their linemen. So that's a step in the right direction.
Zombo
good post..Lynch is stronger and has the better arm Goff more pro ready.....Wentz will also go in the 1st so drafting either Goff or Lynch is a lock...Ginger or Mary ann? you win either way
good post..Lynch is stronger and has the better arm Goff more pro ready.....Wentz will also go in the 1st so drafting either Goff or Lynch is a lock...Ginger or Mary ann? you win either way
I think when it's all said and done Wentz *might* get drafted ahead of Lynch.
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We should draft both Goff and cardale jones later in the draft.
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To be fair the Texans play in a crappy division with other perennial losers where as we play in a division with two and sometimes three bullies/perennial playoff teams.Don't get too full of yourself pal, anybody over 15 years or so turned out to be right if they predicted the Browns would suck and can pat themselves on the back and boast.
And when we fail every year we reset everything we're doing the year before like a video game except it doesn't seem like anybody remembers where the monsters are hiding when you start over.
We get a boner listening to Mel Kiper so we pretend it's been the quarterback that's been keeping us down all these years.
So we haven't drafted a top 5 quarterback? That's true. And Jared Goff wouldn't be a top 5 quarterback in any recent draft.
And when you say the Cowboys wouldn't give up a bunch of pics for a quarterback that's not going to start for two years are you kidding? Not that I think they'd be wise to mortgage the ranch on him but somebody new is going to start within the next two years. Tony Romo isn't getting any healthier.
You also mention other shitty teams have drafted quarterbacks. Yes. Still in last place in the NFC South, and the team that drafts before us this year drafted big-name Hot Shot superstar quarterbacks. Everybody's boyfriend Bilgewater wasn't a top five pick and the only reason the Vikings havent sucked too badly is that they've had plenty of other first-rate weapons.
The Faguars didn't finish in the basement just because they've got the other hotshot quarterback in their division, one of the shittiest ones in football. Still only won 2 more games than we did.
And no team with a highly rated quarterback runs the ball as poorly, stop the run and/or defend the pass as poorly as the Cleveland Browns.
And even the lowly Houston dumbass Texans got to the playoffs with bums under center.
Everybody talks about the elite teams but the one thread that runs through them is consistency.
And if you guys think Jared Goff or Paxton Lynch aren't going to start the first year you are dreaming.
Especially if Joe Thomas wants out, Mack leaves and Mitchell Schwartz gets a golden parachute from somebody. Hell even with them we couldn't run the ball or protect the quarterback. Imagine three Cameron Irving's on the front line...
WSS
To be fair the Texans play in a crappy division with other perennial losers where as we play in a division with two and sometimes three bullies/perennial playoff teams.
That too.
WSS
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Zombo said:
I don't even know what these guys look like. I understand Goff is the more accurate pro-ready one and Lynch is kinda the prototype that needs some coaching up, if that's true then Goff is probably the leader in the clubhouse , but things change. I remember when Aaron Rodgers was the concensus #1 over Alex Smith, but by the time they over-analyzed them Smith went 1st and Rodgers in the mid 20's.
I'll probably get into the draft once we know who our Coach, staff and Personnel guy are going to be.
If one of these guys is truly a top ten grade then pick him at #2 and don't look back. I assume neither are deceptive midget drunks that can't learn a playbook or see over their linemen. So that's a step in the right direction.
Zombo
good post..Lynch is stronger and has the better arm Goff more pro ready.....Wentz will also go in the 1st so drafting either Goff or Lynch is a lock...Ginger or Mary ann? you win either way
good post..Lynch is stronger and has the better arm Goff more pro ready.....Wentz will also go in the 1st so drafting either Goff or Lynch is a lock...Ginger or Mary ann? you win either way
More like cousin Pearl or Jethrine.
WSS
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The more I think about it, the more I don't think we'll go QB at #2. Dalton was a second rounder, and perhaps Jackson believes he can have similar results drafting another QB in the second or third round.
I'm excited about having a talented play caller as a head coach. Jackson knows he needs playmakers, and it's possible his reputation for scoring touchdowns and using innovative formations could attract free agents that otherwise wouldn't have given us the time of day. Someone like...Alshon Jeffery perhaps? I've spoken several times about having a guy that can make the "jump ball touchdown" grab, and not many do it better than Jeffery. Was he with McCown in Chicago?
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Don't get too full of yourself pal, anybody over 15 years or so turned out to be right if they predicted the Browns would suck and can pat themselves on the back and boast.True enough Steve- but we haven't drafted a qb in the top 5 since Couch. Other than Quinn, none of those guys had the aspirations you're going to put on a #2 overall pick. Remember my "It's a sin if we draft Quinn"? I cringed when we drafted Wee-Done, thought it was a desperation move by Homgren- right again. I was probably the #1 Manziel critic pre-draft. Damn, I'm about as smart as those chickens that outsmarted Farmer.
.
And when we fail every year we reset everything we're doing the year before like a video game except it doesn't seem like anybody remembers where the monsters are hiding when you start over.
We get a boner listening to Mel Kiper so we pretend it's been the quarterback that's been keeping us down all these years.
So we haven't drafted a top 5 quarterback? That's true. And Jared Goff wouldn't be a top 5 quarterback in any recent draft.
And when you say the Cowboys wouldn't give up a bunch of pics for a quarterback that's not going to start for two years are you kidding? Not that I think they'd be wise to mortgage the ranch on him but somebody new is going to start within the next two years. Tony Romo isn't getting any healthier.
You also mention other shitty teams have drafted quarterbacks. Yes. Still in last place in the NFC South, and the team that drafts before us this year drafted big-name Hot Shot superstar quarterbacks. Everybody's boyfriend Bilgewater wasn't a top five pick and the only reason the Vikings havent sucked too badly is that they've had plenty of other first-rate weapons.
The Faguars didn't finish in the basement just because they've got the other hotshot quarterback in their division, and they are still the shittiest team in football. Still only won 2 more games than we did.
And no team with a highly rated quarterback runs the ball as poorly, stop the run and/or defend the pass as poorly as the Cleveland Browns.
And even the lowly Houston dumbass Texans got to the playoffs with bums under center.
Everybody talks about the elite teams but the one thread that runs through them is consistency.
And if you guys think Jared Goff or Paxton Lynch aren't going to start the first year you are dreaming.
Especially if Joe Thomas wants out, Mack leaves and Mitchell Schwartz gets a golden parachute from somebody. Hell even with them we couldn't run the ball or protect the quarterback. Imagine three Cameron Irving's on the front line...
WSS
What makes one game in 82 that occurs before the halfway point of the season "huge"?
Don't get too full of yourself pal, anybody over 15 years or so turned out to be right if they predicted the Browns would suck and can pat themselves on the back and boast.
... Jared Goff wouldn't be a top 5 quarterback in any recent draft.
Sounds like the words of someone who hasn't gotten any player predictions right.
And as for Goff... with the exception of 2015 are you sure? Looks a lot more like "would have in every draft" to these old eyes.
2014
1 Houston Texans Jadeveon Clowney DE South Carolina
2 St. Louis Rams Greg Robinson T Auburn
3 Jacksonville Jaguars Blake Bortles QB Central Florida
4 Buffalo Bills Sammy Watkins WR Clemson
5 Oakland Raiders Khalil Mack OLB Buffalo
6 Atlanta Falcons Jake Matthews T Texas A&M
2013
1 Kansas City Chiefs Eric Fisher OT Central Michigan
2 Jacksonville Jaguars Luke Joeckel OT Texas A&M
3 Miami Dolphins Dion Jordan DE Oregon
4 Philadelphia Eagles Lane Johnson OT Oklahoma
5 Detroit Lions Ezekiel Ansah DE Brigham Young
6 Cleveland Browns Barkevious Mingo OLB LSU
2012
1 Indianapolis Colts Andrew Luck QB Stanford
2 Washington Redskins Robert Griffin QB Baylor
3 Cleveland Browns Trent Richardson RB Alabama
4 Minnesota Vikings Matt Kalil T USC
5 Jacksonville Jaguars Justin Blackmon WR Oklahoma State
6 Dallas Cowboys Morris Claiborne CB LSU
2011 is killer, but even Blaine Gabbert was taken at #10...
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Could be I'm missing your point but which of these players would have been replaced in their draft order if Jared Goff had been available? Or Paxton Lynch?
ps in case I wasn't clear I meant he would not be a quarterback picked in the top 5. Yes hed probably be one of the five quarterbacks taken in the first few rounds, maybe.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
We'll have to wait until the rest of the pre-draft stuff before getting the final shakedown on Goff (and others).
But today, I think he's a better prospect than Mariotta, Bortles, and EJ Manuel (2015, 2014, 2013 top QB picks)
I don't care what draft class you're talking about frankly, Goff is a top-class prospect period and would be considered high in any draft class. Definitely the most ready to make an impact day 1 as a starter in this class.
This is actually not a very weak QB class - I don't know why people say that every year that Andrew Luck isn't in the draft. There's a few prospects that would be considered first-round in any given year IMO (Goff, Wentz, Lynch)
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We'll have to wait until the rest of the pre-draft stuff before getting the final shakedown on Goff (and others).
But today, I think he's a better prospect than Mariotta, Bortles, and EJ Manuel (2015, 2014, 2013 top QB picks)
I don't care what draft class you're talking about frankly, Goff is a top-class prospect period and would be considered high in any draft class. Definitely the most ready to make an impact day 1 as a starter in this class.
This is actually not a very weak QB class - I don't know why people say that every year that Andrew Luck isn't in the draft. There's a few prospects that would be considered first-round in any given year IMO (Goff, Wentz, Lynch)
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