Abortion Laws
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If you want to get serious about the subject these are some deep moral issues that should not be taken lightly. With abortions you have babies that are being killed in the womb. Some will say what about a baby that is deformed and ultrasounds show it? I saw a man on television recently born without arms and legs who is living life to the fullest. What about assisted suicide for those with terminal disease who are suffering yet once the door is open where does it lead? I saw recently in Europe a young woman was allowed to have government assisted suicide because of her depression.
So many times once you open the door on these moral issues it steadily goes downhill. The democrats for decades used the slogan that abortions should be safe, legal and rare but they have now dropped the rare. Why? What has changed accept now abortions have become so common. You can use the extreme arguments of the birth defects or a woman being raped but the real facts are that the vast majority of abortions are done for convenience.
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If you want to get serious about the subject these are some deep moral issues that should not be taken lightly. With abortions you have babies that are being killed in the womb. Some will say what about a baby that is deformed and ultrasounds show it? I saw a man on television recently born without arms and legs who is living life to the fullest. What about assisted suicide for those with terminal disease who are suffering yet once the door is open where does it lead? I saw recently in Europe a young woman was allowed to have government assisted suicide because of her depression.
So many times once you open the door on these moral issues it steadily goes downhill. The democrats for decades used the slogan that abortions should be safe, legal and rare but they have now dropped the rare. Why? What has changed accept now abortions have become so common. You can use the extreme arguments of the birth defects or a woman being raped but the real facts are that the vast majority of abortions are done for convenience.
If you want to get serious about the subject these are some deep moral issues that should not be taken lightly. With abortions you have babies that are being killed in the womb. Some will say what about a baby that is deformed and ultrasounds show it? I saw a man on television recently born without arms and legs who is living life to the fullest. What about assisted suicide for those with terminal disease who are suffering yet once the door is open where does it lead? I saw recently in Europe a young woman was allowed to have government assisted suicide because of her depression.
So many times once you open the door on these moral issues it steadily goes downhill. The democrats for decades used the slogan that abortions should be safe, legal and rare but they have now dropped the rare. Why? What has changed accept now abortions have become so common. You can use the extreme arguments of the birth defects or a woman being raped but the real facts are that the vast majority of abortions are done for convenience.
Pretty soon the Government will have counselors who will 'recommend' execution due to depression, bad genes, etc.
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Slippery slope? I'm convinced
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If you want to get serious about the subject these are some deep moral issues that should not be taken lightly. With abortions you have babies that are being killed in the womb. Some will say what about a baby that is deformed and ultrasounds show it? I saw a man on television recently born without arms and legs who is living life to the fullest. What about assisted suicide for those with terminal disease who are suffering yet once the door is open where does it lead? I saw recently in Europe a young woman was allowed to have government assisted suicide because of her depression.
So many times once you open the door on these moral issues it steadily goes downhill. The democrats for decades used the slogan that abortions should be safe, legal and rare but they have now dropped the rare. Why? What has changed accept now abortions have become so common. You can use the extreme arguments of the birth defects or a woman being raped but the real facts are that the vast majority of abortions are done for convenience.
I saw a man on television recently born without arms and legs who is living life to the fullest.
I'm not discounting that some people can make some semblance of a life with such deformities. But it ain't "full". If he doesn't have much in the way of cognitive disability then fine. But I see no valor in bringing forth severely mentally handicapped children into this world. I would rather those souls come back another time in a better form. But it's not my call, it's between the two souls involved in the pregnancy. And that is my firm final belief.
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I saw a man on television recently born without arms and legs who is living life to the fullest.
I'm not discounting that some people can make some semblance of a life with such deformities. But it ain't "full". If he doesn't have much in the way of cognitive disability then fine. But I see no valor in bringing forth severely mentally handicapped children into this world. I would rather those souls come back another time in a better form. But it's not my call, it's between the two souls involved in the pregnancy. And that is my firm final belief.
I'm not discounting that some people can make some semblance of a life with such deformities. But it ain't "full". If he doesn't have much in the way of cognitive disability then fine. But I see no valor in bringing forth severely mentally handicapped children into this world. I would rather those souls come back another time in a better form. But it's not my call, it's between the two souls involved in the pregnancy. And that is my firm final belief.
Of course it also includes the taxpayers who will need to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars for ongoing care.
I'm sure you wouldn't want to limit the right of bringing forth deformed children to only those with the means to pay for them.
WSS
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I'm not discounting that some people can make some semblance of a life with such deformities. But it ain't "full". If he doesn't have much in the way of cognitive disability then fine. But I see no valor in bringing forth severely mentally handicapped children into this world. I would rather those souls come back another time in a better form. But it's not my call, it's between the two souls involved in the pregnancy. And that is my firm final belief.
Of course it also includes the taxpayers who will need to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars for ongoing care.
I'm sure you wouldn't want to limit the right of bringing forth deformed children to only those with the means to pay for them.
WSS
Of course it also includes the taxpayers who will need to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars for ongoing care.
I'm sure you wouldn't want to limit the right of bringing forth deformed children to only those with the means to pay for them.
WSS
did I say I want to limit anybody's rights? I said I felt it personally wrong to do so, but in the end it isn't my call. The woman can "choose" to bring forth a severely deformed child.....just as she can opt not to. It's not my business. Even if the child was mine and I had some brain injury which caused me to think that bringing such a child into this world was the right call....in the end it still isn't my call. If I don't like it than I can tell the woman to fuck off and leave her.
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I'm not talking about anybody's rights, just the morality of bringing a severely handicapped child into the world to be paid for by society.
Or by you, should she decide to hit you up for child support and medical bills for the next 18 years.
WSS
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I need to figure out how to post a poll here. I'm curious as to which of the four sections these guys fall into and don't trust anybody to add their name to it.
No abortion for any reason,
illegal in the third trimester,
illegal in the 3rd trimester but with exceptions for life rape and incest or
anytime for any reason the woman sees fit.
WSS
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I need to figure out how to post a poll here. I'm curious as to which of the four sections these guys fall into and don't trust anybody to add their name to it.
No abortion for any reason,
illegal in the third trimester,
illegal in the 3rd trimester but with exceptions for life rape and incest or
anytime for any reason the woman sees fit.
WSS
I need to figure out how to post a poll here. I'm curious as to which of the four sections these guys fall into and don't trust anybody to add their name to it.
No abortion for any reason,
illegal in the third trimester,
illegal in the 3rd trimester but with exceptions for life rape and incest or anytime for any reason the woman sees fit.
WSS
Want me to set one up?
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I need to figure out how to post a poll here. I'm curious as to which of the four sections these guys fall into and don't trust anybody to add their name to it.
No abortion for any reason,
illegal in the third trimester,
illegal in the 3rd trimester but with exceptions for life rape and incest or anytime for any reason the woman sees fit.
WSS
Want me to set one up?
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I'm not talking about anybody's rights, just the morality of bringing a severely handicapped child into the world to be paid for by society.
Or by you, should she decide to hit you up for child support and medical bills for the next 18 years.
WSS
I'm not talking about anybody's rights, just the morality of bringing a severely handicapped child into the world to be paid for by society.
Or by you, should she decide to hit you up for child support and medical bills for the next 18 years.
WSS
well obviously the cost to me specifically is incremental. Not too many of these children survive to term anyway. Those that do, and the mother chooses to go to term with them....yeah fine. If there was just an epidemic of children being born that basically will never be functioning members of society, than things would have to be looked at. You can't as a society say it's no problem to bring these kids into the world but we can't give you a dime. You would have to say if you want to have children like that you're on your own, and then they're on their own once you're gone.
There's no such epidemic for now but think about events in the past with people who lived around a water supply that got shit in by companies dumping mercury into it at will....those kids were royally fucked. I absolutely would have condoned the death penalty for the heads of companies that did that knowingly. But here in the U.S we give those people blowjobs for being great capitalists.
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I think you are dancing around the question.
You get the chick pregnant and it's her decision to abort or not even though she knows there will be serious health problems. You have no place in the decision just the 18 years of support.
But you are correct, it's not an epidemic, even though one of my very best friends has a severely damaged twin brother who has been a ward of the state on and off for most of his life. Still is.
I'm kind of referencing the idea that if it is the woman's choice alone maybe it should be her responsibility alone?
WSS
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I think you are dancing around the question.
You get the chick pregnant and it's her decision to abort or not even though she knows there will be serious health problems. You have no place in the decision just the 18 years of support.
But you are correct, it's not an epidemic, even though one of my very best friends has a severely damaged twin brother who has been a ward of the state on and off for most of his life. Still is.
I'm kind of referencing the idea that if it is the woman's choice alone maybe it should be her responsibility alone?
WSS
I'm kind of referencing the idea that if it is the woman's choice alone maybe it should be her responsibility alone?
WSS
try to fly that one past the right wing nutjobs in this country. Cause of course what you suggest would increase the number of abortions. So if they want less abortions they have to be willing to foot the bill in these cases. Which is precisely why they won't support such a measure because they know they would be hemming themselves up.
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I'm kind of referencing the idea that if it is the woman's choice alone maybe it should be her responsibility alone?
WSS
try to fly that one past the right wing nutjobs in this country. Cause of course what you suggest would increase the number of abortions. So if they want less abortions they have to be willing to foot the bill in these cases. Which is precisely why they won't support such a measure because they know they would be hemming themselves up.
try to fly that one past the right wing nutjobs in this country. Cause of course what you suggest would increase the number of abortions. So if they want less abortions they have to be willing to foot the bill in these cases. Which is precisely why they won't support such a measure because they know they would be hemming themselves up.
Ha, actually try to fly that past the women over on the other side of the aisle.
Sure honey decide to do whatever you want with that kid. But I don't want anything to do with it so you're on your own. Enjoy your choice.
WSS
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I saw a man on television recently born without arms and legs who is living life to the fullest.
I'm not discounting that some people can make some semblance of a life with such deformities. But it ain't "full". If he doesn't have much in the way of cognitive disability then fine. But I see no valor in bringing forth severely mentally handicapped children into this world. I would rather those souls come back another time in a better form. But it's not my call, it's between the two souls involved in the pregnancy. And that is my firm final belief.
I'm not discounting that some people can make some semblance of a life with such deformities. But it ain't "full". If he doesn't have much in the way of cognitive disability then fine. But I see no valor in bringing forth severely mentally handicapped children into this world. I would rather those souls come back another time in a better form. But it's not my call, it's between the two souls involved in the pregnancy. And that is my firm final belief.
I had a cousin, erin, who was severely re tarded. I couldn't even point you to her particular re tardation but it was much more severe than downs syndrome. She died at age 21 but I can confirm that she lived. She was still able to enjoy things. She enjoyed music and swimming and her favorite television programs. She loved going to school and she loved to cuddle with people who loved her. Even with all her disabilities she found love in her short, unlucky life and you know what? She touched so many lives and people's hearts. I remember a family cruise when I was 18 or so, and an older guy approached us, crying and said she was the most beautiful person he'd ever met. Everyone found a reason to be a nicer person when they were around her and on the few occasions they didn't myself or her brothers or all of us would beat their fucking ass for them. When she died literally hundreds of people came to her funeral and when we carried her coffin to her final resting place we sang "pretty woman" and it was the hardest song I've ever sung because I was crying so hard. Because, you see, even with all her disabilities she found a reason and a way to live her life as a person and not a burden. The human spirit cannot be dampened down. She had a chance to live and love and experience creature comforts and I'd rather her have that chance 100% of the time than be aborted just like I'd rather live like she lived than be dead. One moment of true love or happiness is worth the price of admission.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Nice post Cysko. Who decides what life is valuable and what isn't? It is a slippery slope once you go down that road. I don't think we should be making that call and should consider all life valuable and to be protected and not destroyed.
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I'm not discounting that some people can make some semblance of a life with such deformities. But it ain't "full". If he doesn't have much in the way of cognitive disability then fine. But I see no valor in bringing forth severely mentally handicapped children into this world. I would rather those souls come back another time in a better form. But it's not my call, it's between the two souls involved in the pregnancy. And that is my firm final belief.
I had a cousin, erin, who was severely re tarded. I couldn't even point you to her particular re tardation but it was much more severe than downs syndrome. She died at age 21 but I can confirm that she lived. She was still able to enjoy things. She enjoyed music and swimming and her favorite television programs. She loved going to school and she loved to cuddle with people who loved her. Even with all her disabilities she found love in her short, unlucky life and you know what? She touched so many lives and people's hearts. I remember a family cruise when I was 18 or so, and an older guy approached us, crying and said she was the most beautiful person he'd ever met. Everyone found a reason to be a nicer person when they were around her and on the few occasions they didn't myself or her brothers or all of us would beat their fucking ass for them. When she died literally hundreds of people came to her funeral and when we carried her coffin to her final resting place we sang "pretty woman" and it was the hardest song I've ever sung because I was crying so hard. Because, you see, even with all her disabilities she found a reason and a way to live her life as a person and not a burden. The human spirit cannot be dampened down. She had a chance to live and love and experience creature comforts and I'd rather her have that chance 100% of the time than be aborted just like I'd rather live like she lived than be dead. One moment of true love or happiness is worth the price of admission.
I had a cousin, erin, who was severely re tarded. I couldn't even point you to her particular re tardation but it was much more severe than downs syndrome. She died at age 21 but I can confirm that she lived. She was still able to enjoy things. She enjoyed music and swimming and her favorite television programs. She loved going to school and she loved to cuddle with people who loved her. Even with all her disabilities she found love in her short, unlucky life and you know what? She touched so many lives and people's hearts. I remember a family cruise when I was 18 or so, and an older guy approached us, crying and said she was the most beautiful person he'd ever met. Everyone found a reason to be a nicer person when they were around her and on the few occasions they didn't myself or her brothers or all of us would beat their fucking ass for them. When she died literally hundreds of people came to her funeral and when we carried her coffin to her final resting place we sang "pretty woman" and it was the hardest song I've ever sung because I was crying so hard. Because, you see, even with all her disabilities she found a reason and a way to live her life as a person and not a burden. The human spirit cannot be dampened down. She had a chance to live and love and experience creature comforts and I'd rather her have that chance 100% of the time than be aborted just like I'd rather live like she lived than be dead. One moment of true love or happiness is worth the price of admission.
That story worked out. I grant you there are plenty of times when things, to "our" perspective....seem to work out. But you can't take her exp and extrapolate it over the entire population of people who are born with these deformities. One of my best friends in life, him and his wife are "devout" catholics. Her first pregnancy they told her you've got a pretty good chance of not making it out alive. She went through with it anyway. Long story short she almost died and the kid was stillborn. My buddy told me dude I've been pro life my whole life....but seeing the fetus, I was so grateful the kid didn't live he would have had a disastrously miserable life. The fetus was just all kinds of mangled. Plus he almost lost his wife so life put perspective on him. Things worked out for them though, they now have two boys who are a couple years old each and no difficulties in pregnancy. And he's still got his wife to raise the kids. Perspective.
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No you're still not getting it because it's clear you've never had anyone like that to touch your life. That's fine. I may be a whole lot more jaded about it if it wasn't for "E". In the same way if I've never had my heart broken I might be tempted to tell a heartbroken friend "sack up, little buddy. Plenty of fish in the sea"
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No you're still not getting it because it's clear you've never had anyone like that to touch your life. That's fine. I may be a whole lot more jaded about it if it wasn't for "E". In the same way if I've never had my heart broken I might be tempted to tell a heartbroken friend "sack up, little buddy. Plenty of fish in the sea"
No you're still not getting it because it's clear you've never had anyone like that to touch your life. That's fine. I may be a whole lot more jaded about it if it wasn't for "E". In the same way if I've never had my heart broken I might be tempted to tell a heartbroken friend "sack up, little buddy. Plenty of fish in the sea"
Of course in a matter of time that advice will make sense to the injured party.
WSS
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In other words without her it would have been easy to harden my heart and look at a re tarded person and say "they have no value, they can't contribute, the world would be better off without them" but by changing my opinion her life DID have value. It made me a better person, a more compassionate person. That's a quantifiable value, to me.
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