Benjamin to sign.....Mack out then in ?
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So in hindsight Bilgewater is the number 1 quarterback you would want out of that draft? If you could go back in time and take one?
WSS
I'd certainly have taken him over Manziel. Their were four first-round QBs available and the Browns managed to pick the only that turned out to be a bust. Knowing what we know now, maybe I go back and take Carr over Bridgewater, but I don't think many people would complain about any of the other three QBs from that draft.
If you sentiment is that we shouldn't all be bowing to the analytics gods and using analytics as the sole piece of evidence for composing a draft board, I agree with you 100%. But nobody is doing that anyway. It's the Cleveland media that is making it out that analytics is the end-all-be-all, not the team itself. Listen to how the team talks about it, it's very different than how the media does.
I'd certainly have taken him over Manziel. Their were four first-round QBs available and the Browns managed to pick the only that turned out to be a bust. Knowing what we know now, maybe I go back and take Carr over Bridgewater, but I don't think many people would complain about any of the other three QBs from that draft.
So in hindsight the analytical report, at least in your opinion, was bullshit?
(sorry, let me rephrase that not quite as accurate as it should have been for the money.
)WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
I think you're missing the point of the report....it wasnt intented to predict who would be the best quarterback...it was to predict the least likely to fail....big difference...
I think you're missing the point of the report....it wasnt intented to predict who would be the best quarterback...it was to predict the least likely to fail....big difference...
OK-then why hasn't analytics and common sense kept Benjamin when we know this is a weak FA and draft when to comes to WR? The question is for everyone, not just you Mud.
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I'd certainly have taken him over Manziel. Their were four first-round QBs available and the Browns managed to pick the only that turned out to be a bust. Knowing what we know now, maybe I go back and take Carr over Bridgewater, but I don't think many people would complain about any of the other three QBs from that draft.
So in hindsight the analytical report, at least in your opinion, was bullshit?
(sorry, let me rephrase that not quite as accurate as it should have been for the money.
)WSS
So in hindsight the analytical report, at least in your opinion, was bullshit?
(sorry, let me rephrase that not quite as accurate as it should have been for the money.
)WSS
I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion other than deciding that's what I meant based on your dislike for him. He's a very good quarterback. If a report tells me he is the best choice and he turns out to be very good, I'm not going to feel too bad that in hindsight that he didn't get turn out to be the best QB available.
He has, in my opinion, the highest floor but also the lowest ceiling of the four available QBs. I'm pretty sure that's what the analytics said, too. He has it when it comes to the most important skill of a QB: the ability to quickly process a defense and make the correct decision with the ball.
The reason we have the FO we have today is to correct the poor process that was in place with Farmer and Pettine: a process that disregarded analytics, disregarded the character issues of Manziel and Gilbert, and bought into the Manziel hype train. When people talk about Sashi's primary trait being a consensus-builder, that tells you all you need to know about Farmer and Pettine's regime. They were not about building a consensus, they were about taking their flavor of the week.
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I think you're missing the point of the report....it wasnt intented to predict who would be the best quarterback...it was to predict the least likely to fail....big difference...
OK-then why hasn't analytics and common sense kept Benjamin when we know this is a weak FA and draft when to comes to WR? The question is for everyone, not just you Mud.
OK-then why hasn't analytics and common sense kept Benjamin when we know this is a weak FA and draft when to comes to WR? The question is for everyone, not just you Mud.
You are speaking as if the team has ultimate authority on the issue. Every FA this year knows their is a ton of money to be had especially after the salary cap increase. Keeping Benjamin requires Benjamin wanting to be kept, and he'll only stay in Cleveland if Cleveland overpays for him. And if a guy is good enough to overpay for, he's good enough to franchise tag, and Benjamin is a #3 wide receiver on any other team in this league. He's not worth a tag, and he's not worth overpaying for.
Common sense also suggests that Hue Jackson has a pretty good chance attracting Marvin Jones and/or Mohammed Sanu to Cleveland. I'm pretty sure we'll have Josh Gordon back, too. Would it be nice to keep Benjamin? Sure. Is he a must-keep, no way. I'd much rather the effort is expended on retaining Gipson, Mack, or Schwartz.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
I think you're missing the point of the report....it wasnt intented to predict who would be the best quarterback...it was to predict the least likely to fail....big difference...
OK-then why hasn't analytics and common sense kept Benjamin when we know this is a weak FA and draft when to comes to WR? The question is for everyone, not just you Mud.
OK-then why hasn't analytics and common sense kept Benjamin when we know this is a weak FA and draft when to comes to WR? The question is for everyone, not just you Mud.
Um...im not sure whats up with Benjiman, but I thought we were trying to sign him.....
At the same time....you cant break the bank on average talent.....dont know the #'s, but everyone has their price and Im starting to think Benji must be asking too much.....and Im not on the Benji love train.....one OK season out of 4 is just that......
I see a lot of folks tearing up gordon for his "slacker play" and taking plays off in those 4-5 games he played last year....yet, even as a presumed drug addict slacker taking plays off, he produced(in 5 games) the same #'s Benji did over 16 games....
Example....in 4 years, Benji has 109 catches for 1685 yards......... an average of 27 catches for 421 yds.....
and in only 3 years. Greg Little had 155 catches for 1821 yds.....an average of 51 catches for 607 yds.....
and Little sucked....we ran him out and is out of the league.....sooooo.....why would we pay big $$ for a guy with crap numbers???
So........to me, he's only worth keeping "at the right price"....but, second/third receivers are dime a dozen.....
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I think you're missing the point of the report....it wasnt intented to predict who would be the best quarterback...it was to predict the least likely to fail....big difference...
I think you're missing the point of the report....it wasnt intented to predict who would be the best quarterback...it was to predict the least likely to fail....big difference...
I think you are sugar coating the report.
This has nothing to do with whether you love Johnny or hate him only the worth of the analytical report.
WSS
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I think you're missing the point of the report....it wasnt intented to predict who would be the best quarterback...it was to predict the least likely to fail....big difference...
I think you are sugar coating the report.
This has nothing to do with whether you love Johnny or hate him only the worth of the analytical report.
WSS
I think you are sugar coating the report.
This has nothing to do with whether you love Johnny or hate him only the worth of the analytical report.
WSS
What am I sugar coating?....the report said he was most likely to succeed.....not the one with most potential or the highest ceiling, etc...
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I think you are sugar coating the report.
This has nothing to do with whether you love Johnny or hate him only the worth of the analytical report.
WSS
What am I sugar coating?....the report said he was most likely to succeed.....not the one with most potential or the highest ceiling, etc...
Uh, well that's great. Just saying that if it turns out he isn't the most successful of the group the report wasn't worth the money.What am I sugar coating?....the report said he was most likely to succeed.....not the one with most potential or the highest ceiling, etc...
I basically just poking a little fun at analytics. I would trade Ozzie Newsome for every computer in DePodestas office.
WSS
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Uh, well that's great. Just saying that if it turns out he isn't the most successful of the group the report wasn't worth the money.What am I sugar coating?....the report said he was most likely to succeed.....not the one with most potential or the highest ceiling, etc...
I basically just poking a little fun at analytics. I would trade Ozzie Newsome for every computer in DePodestas office.
WSS
Uh, well that's great. Just saying that if it turns out he isn't the most successful of the group the report wasn't worth the money.
I basically just poking a little fun at analytics. I would trade Ozzie Newsome for every computer in DePodestas office.
WSS
Clearly it wasnt worth the money, because they didnt listen to it.....BUT, Id say it was worth it, had they listened.....because we would have a decent starting quality QB right now, instead of party boy Manziel(and negative $12.5m)....so, in hindsight, that woulda been worth a LOT more than the 100k they paid for that report....
and, instead of talking about another new QB with our #2 pick....we'd be looking at a top defensive player, or RB, or WR....but we're just starting over...one more time....
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Uh, well that's great. Just saying that if it turns out he isn't the most successful of the group the report wasn't worth the money.
I basically just poking a little fun at analytics. I would trade Ozzie Newsome for every computer in DePodestas office.
WSS
Clearly it wasnt worth the money, because they didnt listen to it.....BUT, Id say it was worth it, had they listened.....because we would have a decent starting quality QB right now, instead of party boy Manziel(and negative $12.5m)....so, in hindsight, that woulda been worth a LOT more than the 100k they paid for that report....
and, instead of talking about another new QB with our #2 pick....we'd be looking at a top defensive player, or RB, or WR....but we're just starting over...one more time....
Well that's assuming that bilgewater would have made Jack shit in the way of difference here.Clearly it wasnt worth the money, because they didnt listen to it.....BUT, Id say it was worth it, had they listened.....because we would have a decent starting quality QB right now, instead of party boy Manziel(and negative $12.5m)....so, in hindsight, that woulda been worth a LOT more than the 100k they paid for that report....
and, instead of talking about another new QB with our #2 pick....we'd be looking at a top defensive player, or RB, or WR....but we're just starting over...one more time....
Maybe you believe he would have been that much better in his rookie season then Josh McCown. Maybe you think our defense and running game would have been stellar because he was there.
And if we had him and went 3 + 13.....
WSS
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I didnt say that by us picking him, we'd suddenly have a great D...thats a lame premise and no QB would do that for our team....its only a piece of the puzzle........I said he'd be a better QB than Johnny was/is....and its pretty clear that he is....
I see no reason that he'd have been better than Josh McCown given the same circumstances.I didnt say that by us picking him, we'd suddenly have a great D...thats a lame premise and no QB would do that for our team....its only a piece of the puzzle........I said he'd be a better QB than Johnny was/is....and its pretty clear that he is....
Especially if Josh had Adrian Peterson in the backfield.
Or that it would have made any difference to the WL list.
WSS
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Id venture to say we wouldnt have even needed Josh McCown, because Bridgewater would've beaten out Brian Hoyer the year before and, unlike with Johnny, we wouldnt have had the same needs in early 2015 due our our rokkie QB being in rehab and absolutely terrible on the field....and he looked pretty good in Minnesota without Peterson in 2014, considering he was first runner up for rookie of the year and in the playoff this year....Vikes went from 5 wins, to 7 wins to 11 wins.....so, argue away, as if picking Johnny is was just as good as picking Bridgewater would have been....
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Id venture to say we wouldnt have even needed Josh McCown, because Bridgewater would've beaten out Brian Hoyer the year before and, unlike with Johnny, we wouldnt have had the same needs in early 2015 due our our rokkie QB being in rehab and absolutely terrible on the field....and he looked pretty good in Minnesota without Peterson in 2014, considering he was first runner up for rookie of the year and in the playoff this year....Vikes went from 5 wins, to 7 wins to 11 wins.....so, argue away, as if picking Johnny is was just as good as picking Bridgewater would have been....
Id venture to say we wouldnt have even needed Josh McCown, because Bridgewater would've beaten out Brian Hoyer the year before and, unlike with Johnny, we wouldnt have had the same needs in early 2015 due our our rokkie QB being in rehab and absolutely terrible on the field....and he looked pretty good in Minnesota without Peterson in 2014, considering he was first runner up for rookie of the year and in the playoff this year....Vikes went from 5 wins, to 7 wins to 11 wins.....so, argue away, as if picking Johnny is was just as good as picking Bridgewater would have been....
Dude you're obsessed with Johnny. That ain't the point that never was.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
ha!...obsessed?.....I think the discussion was about the report and where we would be had we followed it....Johnny is the unfortunate by product of not doing that....
I only mentioned Johnny, because he was the alternative to Bridgewater(who Ive been talking about and you keep shooting down) and because you suggest that picking Bridgewater wouldnt have been a better move because 1) our defense would still suck....or 2) we still wouldnt have won more games(which I doubt).....or 3)McCown might have beaten him out...???
And, now its because Im obsesses?....
You seem to be the one obsessed with protecting him from us baddies and acting as if he's an angel and perfectly fine draft pick, who just wants to have a lil fun and is getting a raw deal....
Much to your chagrin, I guess....people who are obsessed with football(me) and love their team(me) happen to notice when their first round pick is a complete douche and a loser(especially when we saw it from day one)....its also a topic of discussion nation wide, as a matter of fact....so, yeah I talk about it.....surprise surprise....
Ive talked about plenty of other bad picks too....you just haven't noticed cause they're not your boy....
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Id venture to say we wouldnt have even needed Josh McCown, because Bridgewater would've beaten out Brian Hoyer the year before and, unlike with Johnny, we wouldnt have had the same needs in early 2015 due our our rokkie QB being in rehab and absolutely terrible on the field....and he looked pretty good in Minnesota without Peterson in 2014, considering he was first runner up for rookie of the year and in the playoff this year....Vikes went from 5 wins, to 7 wins to 11 wins.....so, argue away, as if picking Johnny is was just as good as picking Bridgewater would have been....
Dude you're obsessed with Johnny. That ain't the point that never was.
WSS
That ain't the point that never was.
Re read the comments again........it's exactly the point....
I see no reason that he'd have been better than Josh McCown given the same circumstances.
Especially if Josh had Adrian Peterson in the backfield.
Or that it would have made any difference to the WL list.
WSS
Id venture to say we wouldnt have even needed Josh McCown, because Bridgewater would've beaten out Brian Hoyer the year before and, unlike with Johnny, we wouldnt have had the same needs in early 2015 due our our rokkie QB being in rehab and absolutely terrible on the field....and he looked pretty good in Minnesota without Peterson in 2014, considering he was first runner up for rookie of the year and in the playoff this year....Vikes went from 5 wins, to 7 wins to 11 wins.....so, argue away, as if picking Johnny is was just as good as picking Bridgewater would have been....
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So what if we drafted Derek Carr, Blake Bortles or Jimmy Garoppolo?
Would anyone still be bitching about that stupid report?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
So what if we drafted Derek Carr, Blake Bortles or Jimmy Garoppolo?
Would anyone still be bitching about that stupid report?
WSS
So what if we drafted Derek Carr, Blake Bortles or Jimmy Garoppolo?
Would anyone still be bitching about that stupid report?
WSS
No one knows what exactly the report said. Word only got out that with the 22nd pick, Bridgewater was considered to be the best available player/QB. For all we know it could have said that the Browns should have picked Thurman Thomas in the top 10. No one will ever know. It could very well have said that Bortles was the best QB but that he wasn't available for the first Browns pick.
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So what if we drafted Derek Carr, Blake Bortles or Jimmy Garoppolo?
Would anyone still be bitching about that stupid report?
WSS
So what if we drafted Derek Carr, Blake Bortles or Jimmy Garoppolo?
Would anyone still be bitching about that stupid report?
WSS
I doubt it, because we'd have a quarterback now.....
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