#1 vs. #2
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This is not about boxing or college football basketball #1 vs. #2.....it is about the NFL draft. Here I list the #1 and the #2 draft picks going back to 1970...and I am bolding those who I believe had the best career. So, lets see how these things shake out. A few years I cannot decide and I will note those. # means HOF player:
1970 Terry Bradshaw# vs. Mike McCoy
1971 Jim Plunkett vs. Archie Manning
1972 Walt Patulski vs. Sherman White
1973 John Matuscak vs. Bert Jones
1974 Too Tall Jones vs. Bo Mathews
1975 Steve Bartkowski vs. Randy White#
1976 Leroy Selmon# vs. Steve Niehaus
1977 Ricky Bell vs. Tony Dorsett#
1978 Earl Campbell vs. Art Still
1979 Tom Cousineau vs. Mike Bell.....first up for grabs...both bust material
1980 Billy Sims vs. Lam Jones
1981 George Rogers vs. Lawrence Taylor#
1982 Ken Sims vs. Johnnie Cooks....up for grabs, both not good
1983 John Elway# vs. Eric Dickerson # only year since 1970 both 1 and 2 made HOF
1984 Irving Fryar vs. Dean Steinkuhler
1985 Bruce Smith# vs. Bill Fralic
1986 Bo Jackson vs. Tony Casillas. despite Bo's short brilliance, Casillas had better career.
1987 Vinny Testaverde vs. Cornelius Bennett. up for grabs...both had very productive careers
1988 Aundray Bruce vs. Neil Smith
1989 Troy Aikman# vs. Tony Mandarich
1990 Jeff George vs. Blair Thomas
1991 Russell Maryland vs. Eric Turner up for grabs, both good players
1992 Steve Emtman vs. Quentin Coryatt. up for grabs, both basically busts
1993 Drew Bledsoe vs. Rick Mirer
1994 Dan Wilkinson vs. Marshall Faulk#
1995 Kijana Carter vs. Tony Boselli
1996 Keyshawn Johnson vs. Kevin Hardy up for grabs, both good, not great
1997 Orlando Pace# vs. Darrell Russell
1998 Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf. The biggest disparity between #1 and #2 perhaps ever...at least in this period. Only Akili Smith and Art Schlichter rival Leaf for biggest bust ever.
1999 Tim Couch vs. Donovan McNabb
2000 Courtney Brown vs. Lavar Arrington
2001 Michael Vick vs. Leonard Davis
2002 David Carr vs. Julius Peppers
2003 Carson Palmer vs. Charles Rogers
2004 Eli Manning vs. Robert Gallery
2005 Alex Smith vs. Ronnie Brown
2006 Mario Williams vs. Reggie Bush
2007 Jamarcus Russell vs. Calvin Johnson
2008 Jake Long vs. Chris Long only time 1 and 2 had same last name!!
2009 Matt Stafford vs. Jason Smith
2010 Sam Bradford vs. N. Suh
2011 Cam Newton vs. Von Miller if both keep going as is we could have 2d HOF 1&2 duo.
2012 Andrew Luck vs. Robert GriffinIII
2013 Eric Fisher vs. Luke Joeckel up for grabs, too soon to tell
2014 Jadaveon Clowney vs. Greg Robinson too soon
2015 Jameis Winston vs. Marcus Mariota too soon
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In my estimation the #1s had the better player in 23 years, the #2 in 14 seasons with 6 up for grabs and 3 too soon to tell.
Give your opinion on the up for grabs....or if you disagree with me on any of these.
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In time, Luck vs RG3 might get close to Manning vs Leaf, but not completely there. RG3 at least had *a* productive year before flaming out (and subsequently ending in cleveland apparently)
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In time, Luck vs RG3 might get close to Manning vs Leaf, but not completely there. RG3 at least had *a* productive year before flaming out (and subsequently ending in cleveland apparently)
In time, Luck vs RG3 might get close to Manning vs Leaf, but not completely there. RG3 at least had *a* productive year before flaming out (and subsequently ending in cleveland apparently)
That can never happen. RG3 already has a Pro Bowl appearance. His PFR CA is at 32. Leaf's PFR CA was a 1.
The biggest disparities between 1 and 2 in regard to Production,using the CA is:
Peyton 177 vs. Leaf 1: 176 points
Carson Palmer 100 vs. Charles Rogers 4: 96
Lawrence Taylor 137 vs. George Rogers 46: 91 Taylor the #2
Bruce Smith 148 vs. Bill Fralic 58 90
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Yeah, sure, I specifically said it won't match.
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Not counting the last 3 years, the closest Race between 1 and 2 players in terms of PFR production average are the following:
1978 Earl Campbell 68 pts. Art Still 73 5 pt differential
In this case I gave the edge to Campbell...even though he had fewer CA points.....as Earl did make the HOF...
1979 Cousineau 36 pts Mike Bell 45 ... 9 points different
1982 Ken Sims 32 pts vs. Johnnie Cooks 40 pt ....8 pt different
1991 Russell Maryland 60 pts, E-Rock 52 8 pt different
1987 Vinny Testaverde 97 pts vs. Cornelius Bennet 90 pts. 7 pt difference
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In time, Luck vs RG3 might get close to Manning vs Leaf, but not completely there. RG3 at least had *a* productive year before flaming out (and subsequently ending in cleveland apparently)
In time, Luck vs RG3 might get close to Manning vs Leaf, but not completely there. RG3 at least had *a* productive year before flaming out (and subsequently ending in cleveland apparently)
I don't know if I'd call Luck a world beater as of yet, either.
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I don't know if I'd call Luck a world beater as of yet, either.
Oddly enough....to date Luck has a 45 PFR CA....where Griffin is at 32 pts. Not as big of a difference as you would expect.
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I don't know if I'd call Luck a world beater as of yet, either.
Oddly enough....to date Luck has a 45 PFR CA....where Griffin is at 32 pts. Not as big of a difference as you would expect.
Oddly enough....to date Luck has a 45 PFR CA....where Griffin is at 32 pts. Not as big of a difference as you would expect.
Right, I think that story is yet to be written. Luck has had some troubles so far, as has Griffin. Sure, Luck is still the better choice, but it's not as clear cut as it could have been.
Plus, we all know RG3 is going to come to Cleveland and throw for 700 TDs and 5 INT's over the next 10 years.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
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Oddly enough....to date Luck has a 45 PFR CA....where Griffin is at 32 pts. Not as big of a difference as you would expect.
Right, I think that story is yet to be written. Luck has had some troubles so far, as has Griffin. Sure, Luck is still the better choice, but it's not as clear cut as it could have been.
Plus, we all know RG3 is going to come to Cleveland and throw for 700 TDs and 5 INT's over the next 10 years.
Right, I think that story is yet to be written. Luck has had some troubles so far, as has Griffin. Sure, Luck is still the better choice, but it's not as clear cut as it could have been.
Plus, we all know RG3 is going to come to Cleveland and throw for 700 TDs and 5 INT's over the next 10 years.
Ah.....YES
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LOL at robert gallery
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Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.
We'll see.
Mike
INÂ DORSEY I TRUST -
Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.
We'll see.
Mike
Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.
We'll see.
Mike
Fair point. That is why I said we may have another Elway/Dickerson situation that year. Both superb players. That is, after all, what one should expect from the #1 and #2 players taken in a draft.
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Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.
We'll see.
Mike
Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.
We'll see.
Mike
Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.
We'll see.
Mike
Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.
Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.
Ah, no. About equal.
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Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.
Ah, no. About equal.
I'd venture a bet that the Miller-less Broncos finish with a better record than a Cam-less Panthers.Ah, no. About equal.
Miller is an elite player on an otherwise talented defense.
Cam is more or less the glue that held the Panthers offense together.
Not downplaying the acheivements of Von, but Cam probably means more to the Panthers because, without him, they have almost nothing.
This is very similar to the notion that Peyton should have won MVP in 2011.Peyton's absence led that Colts team to a meltdown, therefore he was clearly their most valuable player.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.
We'll see.
Mike
Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.
Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.
Yeah, it's just hard to argue who's the better one here. No clear winner at this time.
Mike
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