#1 vs. #2

gftChris

Yeah, sure, I specifically said it won't match.

The Gipper

Not counting the last 3 years, the closest Race between 1 and 2 players in terms of PFR production average are the following:

1978 Earl Campbell 68 pts. Art Still 73 5 pt differential

In this case I gave the edge to Campbell...even though he had fewer CA points.....as Earl did make the HOF...

1979 Cousineau 36 pts Mike Bell 45 ... 9 points different

1982 Ken Sims 32 pts vs. Johnnie Cooks 40 pt ....8 pt different

1991 Russell Maryland 60 pts, E-Rock 52 8 pt different

1987 Vinny Testaverde 97 pts vs. Cornelius Bennet 90 pts. 7 pt difference

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@gftchris said:
In time, Luck vs RG3 might get close to Manning vs Leaf, but not completely there. RG3 at least had *a* productive year before flaming out (and subsequently ending in cleveland apparently)

I don't know if I'd call Luck a world beater as of yet, either.

The Gipper

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I don't know if I'd call Luck a world beater as of yet, either.

Oddly enough....to date Luck has a 45 PFR CA....where Griffin is at 32 pts. Not as big of a difference as you would expect.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@the-gipper said:
Oddly enough....to date Luck has a 45 PFR CA....where Griffin is at 32 pts. Not as big of a difference as you would expect.

Right, I think that story is yet to be written. Luck has had some troubles so far, as has Griffin. Sure, Luck is still the better choice, but it's not as clear cut as it could have been.

Plus, we all know RG3 is going to come to Cleveland and throw for 700 TDs and 5 INT's over the next 10 years.

The Gipper

@darren15 said:
2007 was a tough call

Ah......NO

The Gipper

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Right, I think that story is yet to be written. Luck has had some troubles so far, as has Griffin. Sure, Luck is still the better choice, but it's not as clear cut as it could have been.

Plus, we all know RG3 is going to come to Cleveland and throw for 700 TDs and 5 INT's over the next 10 years.

Ah.....YES

stillmotion

LOL at robert gallery

Canton Mike

Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.

We'll see.

Mike

The Gipper

@canton-mike said:

Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.

We'll see.

Mike

Fair point. That is why I said we may have another Elway/Dickerson situation that year. Both superb players. That is, after all, what one should expect from the #1 and #2 players taken in a draft.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@canton-mike said:

Even though he's a QB, I'm not yet ready to rate Cam Newton over Von Miller...IMO it's at best a tie for Cam although both are fantastic players. Von was instrumental in his Team winning a Super Bowl...Cam was instrumental in his Team LOSING a Super Bowl.

We'll see.

Mike

Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.

TexasAg1969

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.

Ah, no. About equal.

gumby73

Poor damn Archie Manning. Can never win at nothing. Got his ass kicked every weekend for nothing but 2 sons that barely get touched. My Browns QB since 1999..

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@texasag1969 said:

Ah, no. About equal.

I'd venture a bet that the Miller-less Broncos finish with a better record than a Cam-less Panthers.

Miller is an elite player on an otherwise talented defense.

Cam is more or less the glue that held the Panthers offense together.

Not downplaying the acheivements of Von, but Cam probably means more to the Panthers because, without him, they have almost nothing.

This is very similar to the notion that Peyton should have won MVP in 2011.Peyton's absence led that Colts team to a meltdown, therefore he was clearly their most valuable player.

Canton Mike

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
Maybe, but Cam was also instrumental in getting his team to the Super Bowl...maybe more than Von.

Yeah, it's just hard to argue who's the better one here. No clear winner at this time.

Mike

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@canton-mike said:

Yeah, it's just hard to argue who's the better one here. No clear winner at this time.

Mike

Yeah, I think Miller is far better at his craft...but his position is (in a bubble) much less influential than Cam's.

We can all debate the subtle nuances and impact of each position until we're blue in the face, but in all honesty I would much rather have the fifth ranked QB (not Cam's rank, I just picked a number) than the number one ranked edge rusher.

Comeonman

@the-gipper said:
Fair point. That is why I said we may have another Elway/Dickerson situation that year. Both superb players. That is, after all, what one should expect from the #1 and #2 players taken in a draft.

You should expect it. Unless its the Cleveland Browns drafting. We fuck up top 5 picks constantly, and don't get me started on #22 picks. I would like for someone to tell me a team since the return of the Browns that has totally fucked up draft day worse than the Browns. Even as bad as the Browns. But don't worry folks! We have a baseball guy drafting for us now!

Comeonman

I feel like Soju after that post

Tour2ma

Impact of an OLB vs. a QB of the two SB participants? Why is there a debate?

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@tour2ma said:
Impact of an OLB vs. a QB of the two SB participants? Why is there a debate?

The debate isn't over who was more impactful in the super bowl. It's who is more valuable to their team.

Or, another way to look at it, which team is shittier everywhere else.