RG3 Signs with the Browns
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Good pick up, expecially if they build offense around him.
I hate this shit! How about first we let a QB show us he is worth building an O around?
To save space I'm not going to repost the Jersey of Sadness. I'll just note they probably should start another row, or the names are going to start hitting the floor.
Taller mannequin?
Apparently Hue Jackson "fell in love with RG III" at the personal workout, and he displayed "freakish" accuracy and incredible speed. After the workout, Hue told our management team and owners that he wanted him, and Haslam said, "Go and get him."
Dangerous to fall in love... like I said, Hue has stuck his neck out.
But if this account is valid, then even more disturbing to me is Haslam having played a part in the decision.
What do you hate and why do you hate it?I hate this shit! How about first we let a QB show us he is worth building an O around?
Oh,this must be the part where we ignore Griffin's actual stats and replace them with empty rhstoric and pretend like he hasn't shown his talent. Am I right?
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What do you hate and why do you hate it?
Oh,this must be the part where we ignore Griffin's actual stats and replace them with empty rhstoric and pretend like he hasn't shown his talent. Am I right?
It's where we get the "he's bad at going through his progressions" argument jammed down our throat, despite the fact that it's nearly impossible to tell from film for a number of reasons.
No offense to Tour, it's just the same argument over and over again.
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That's not looking deep enough. Flacco (who Wentz is being compared to) went to Delaware State, remember? Goff had near zero supporting cast at Cal. Sure they're a risk-
In the last 30 years there have probably have only been 3-5 QBs who weren't considered a risk, Andrew Luck being the last. FWIW, I was totally against Holmgren's sell the ranch to get RG III- I was right. If we take Goff or Wentz and they flop, we're only out 1 first round pick, not three. I'll go on record I like what I see out of the Goff Wentz duo. BTW, Hue went to both pro days, and liked what he saw.
Not to be dickish. But any coach at any workout or tape viewing said anything negative about a player?.. I guess it means we really don't know.. I like both QB's.. signing this bag of shit QB does not thrill Me so.
Not to be dickish. But any coach at any workout or tape viewing said anything negative about a player?.. I guess it means we really don't know.. I like both QB's.. signing this bag of shit QB does not thrill Me so.
Well that too- and you're right. No coach\GM\scout is going to come out publicly after a workout and say "man, this kid sucks." It's smokescreen season, and the Browns are laying down a pretty heavy cloud.
Now regarding RG III- you may be right, I share your apprehension. But that's based on reports Griffin has been figured out, ala Derek Anderson who had only one pitch speed- a blazing fastball, with zero touch. Take away the deep stuff, and he was toast- tossing rockets his running backs couldn't handle on swing passes.
If it is true Griffin can't read a defense to save his life, we just wasted around $6 million to find out he hasn't learned anything in 4 years as a pro. The guy isn't stupid, so just maybe he can be coached up to a rudimentary level. MHO is he probably can't do much worse than McCown, and assuming we take a QB @ #2, he can be the pinata while the line stabilizes, and the rookie sits and watches.
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Good pick up, expecially if they build offense around him.
I hate this shit! How about first we let a QB show us he is worth building an O around?
To save space I'm not going to repost the Jersey of Sadness. I'll just note they probably should start another row, or the names are going to start hitting the floor.
Taller mannequin?
Apparently Hue Jackson "fell in love with RG III" at the personal workout, and he displayed "freakish" accuracy and incredible speed. After the workout, Hue told our management team and owners that he wanted him, and Haslam said, "Go and get him."
Dangerous to fall in love... like I said, Hue has stuck his neck out.
But if this account is valid, then even more disturbing to me is Haslam having played a part in the decision.
But if this account is valid, then even more disturbing to me is Haslam having played a part in the decision.
It could have been worse. I could have been Haslem visiting a homeless shelter again.
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It could have been worse. I could have been Haslem visiting a homeless shelter again.
Maybe Sashi should keep a roll of duct tape around if it looks like Jimmy is going to spout off.
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Not to be dickish. But any coach at any workout or tape viewing said anything negative about a player?.. I guess it means we really don't know.. I like both QB's.. signing this bag of shit QB does not thrill Me so.
Well that too- and you're right. No coach\GM\scout is going to come out publicly after a workout and say "man, this kid sucks." It's smokescreen season, and the Browns are laying down a pretty heavy cloud.
Now regarding RG III- you may be right, I share your apprehension. But that's based on reports Griffin has been figured out, ala Derek Anderson who had only one pitch speed- a blazing fastball, with zero touch. Take away the deep stuff, and he was toast- tossing rockets his running backs couldn't handle on swing passes.
If it is true Griffin can't read a defense to save his life, we just wasted around $6 million to find out he hasn't learned anything in 4 years as a pro. The guy isn't stupid, so just maybe he can be coached up to a rudimentary level. MHO is he probably can't do much worse than McCown, and assuming we take a QB @ #2, he can be the pinata while the line stabilizes, and the rookie sits and watches.
Well that too- and you're right. No coach\GM\scout is going to come out publicly after a workout and say "man, this kid sucks." It's smokescreen season, and the Browns are laying down a pretty heavy cloud.
Now regarding RG III- you may be right, I share your apprehension. But that's based on reports Griffin has been figured out, ala Derek Anderson who had only one pitch speed- a blazing fastball, with zero touch. Take away the deep stuff, and he was toast- tossing rockets his running backs couldn't handle on swing passes.
If it is true Griffin can't read a defense to save his life, we just wasted around $6 million to find out he hasn't learned anything in 4 years as a pro. The guy isn't stupid, so just maybe he can be coached up to a rudimentary level. MHO is he probably can't do much worse than McCown, and assuming we take a QB @ #2, he can be the pinata while the line stabilizes, and the rookie sits and watches.
I'm amazed he would come here if he's just basically the punching bag till Rocky gets his shit together. But , I guess at this point.. He's not in position to ask for much.. It's sad to wind up that way.. weather or not you like the guy or not. But I guess this is where Hue and House and Pep will earn thier pay check's so to speak.
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
Sounds like you and the Browns have a lot in common. And I am not sure you are right about that 2 year rule.
Here ya go, you old smartass!!..
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/8/29/6077941/nfl-practice-squad-rules-eligibility-salary-deadline
scroll down to where it says.. what makes a player eligible.
Here ya go, you old smartass!!..
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/8/29/6077941/nfl-practice-squad-rules-eligibility-salary-deadline
scroll down to where it says.. what makes a player eligible.
"In addition, a player is allowed on the practice squad for two years. If a player is on the practice squad for six weeks, up fron three weeks per the previous agreement, in a season, it is considered a year of PS sevice. Players are only allowed to be on a practice squad for a third year if their team keeps 53 players on the active-inactive list at all times."
many NFL players have been on Practice Squads for 3 years. but typically 2 or less.
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Well there goes the 2nd pick going for a qb maybe a good thing. J. Ramsey is the solid choice here right now.
"One said:
Well there goes the 2nd pick going for a qb maybe a good thing. J. Ramsey is the solid choice here right now.
why? please explain.
we are talking about a billion dollar company here, with no certain franchise QB on the roster, picking 2nd overall, with no guarantee they will be picking anywhere near the top of the draft next year and you are thinking Ramsey who you feel is "solid". ?? REALLY?!?
allow me to step off track a moment. i own four hooptie automobiles, that i affectionately call my "beaters". two are pretty rough. one is a classic. the fourth i acquired recently, is a restoration but the frame is pretty shoddy and i'm still unsure if it can hold up as an everyday option...but it looks decent so far.
as it stands now i feel i have two fairly reliable work cars, and i may decide to let the other two go entirely.
they may each run another 10 years...but none would preclude me from buying a new car.
a car analogy is just that--a car analogy--but hopefully it helped illustrate that just because the browns have QBs, the decision to draft their future guy is mutually exclusive.
RG3 is an unknown. right now the entire QB room-Griffin included-doesn't even add up to half of some franchise QBs yearly salaries, and adding a rookie contract still won't put them (all combined) near the cost of what most teams spend on their franchise QBs alone.
the team is unsure if their franchise QB is on the roster at the moment. simply adding another piece to the Browns puzzle is certainly not a foregone conclusion they won't draft a QB 2nd overall.
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and what if RG3 just still sucks and you don't pick the QB at #2?
shame. shame . shame on you FO. it would be unforgivable at this point of 23 QBs since '99 not to secure your future at that position.
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and what if RG3 just still sucks and you don't pick the QB at #2?
shame. shame . shame on you FO. it would be unforgivable at this point of 23 QBs since '99 not to secure your future at that position.
You pick a QB in 2017 or 2018 with your top 3 pick. I think we all can agree that the most consistent way to build a better team is to build a solid defense. I think that was the Farmer/Pettine plan but don't think they fully committed to it.
If securing top QBs was easy Blaine Gabbert/Josh Mccown/Brian Hoyer wouldn't be starters
You pick a QB in 2017 or 2018 with your top 3 pick. I think we all can agree that the most consistent way to build a better team is to build a solid defense. I think that was the Farmer/Pettine plan but don't think they fully committed to it.
If securing top QBs was easy Blaine Gabbert/Josh Mccown/Brian Hoyer wouldn't be starters
agree that they certainly don't grow on trees...so while they are picking at the top of the draft this year why would they risk passing on one if they believe Goff or Wentz could be their guy aka future franchise QB?
put another way, while 2nd overall is a valuable spot to pick at, would you rather spend ONE pick on a shot at finally securing the QB position for the first time since the early/mid 1990s, or wait a couple years and potentially have to mortgage several future drafts spending three (or more) 1st rd picks to attempt to climb up a handful of spots--ala Wash Redskins and RG3--just to watch him possibly bust.
no one makes that trade cheaply either and rest assured, the other 31 teams don't want the Browns to have a franchise QB just as badly as we DO want them to.
put like that, using the 2nd overall pick and possibly securing him now (or busting wasting a single pick) sounds a hell of a lot better than selling the farm to get one and then seeing him bust. Wimbley, Taylor, Mingo, Gilbert, Shelton etc coulda been franchise QBs. there's some examples of the Browns previous attempts at building a dominant defense at the expense of not investing in THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION ON THE FIELD.
hell, toss in Edwards, Winslow, Richardson and Erving as well. all wastes.
Weeden and JFF aside, going cheap via McJake, Frye, Quinn, McCoy, Dorsey, Shaw etc hasn't worked out. i hope this new regime tries a true blue-chip top 10 player at QB for once this decade...
to think the Browns can afford to pass up the opportunity to draft someone they like (assuming they do like Wentz or Goff) and can roll the dice and then a year or two from now have a franchise QB fall right in their lap at their natural pick without moving higher in the draft...is just being greedy in my opinion. reprehensibly so.
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1) I would take RG3 over Kap
2) We didn't pay him much. We are swimming in cap
3) unless we're sure Wentz/Goff is a franchise QB, I'm fine taking the best available, elite player. Build the team then plug in the QB. Going the other way is what we've done for years. We'll just break the QB. No one us is expecting great things. Let RG3 and maybe a later QB run the show. If one does well, you got your guy. If not, at least you have a young superstar
obviously just cuz you draft one at #2 doesn't mean you have to throw him in there immediately.3) unless we're sure Wentz/Goff is a franchise QB, I'm fine taking the best available, elite player. Build the team then plug in the QB. Going the other way is what we've done for years. We'll just break the QB. No one us is expecting great things. Let RG3 and maybe a later QB run the show. If one does well, you got your guy. If not, at least you have a young superstar
remember Kitna? let RG3 and McCown be the cannonfodder until the kid adjusts to the nfl and the o line is adequate to protect the future franchise QB. actually, from here it appears that very well may be the plan.
if the Browns don't like Wentz or Goff then it's BPA all the way for me, regardless of offense or defense.
JUST NO MORE FRIGGIN BUSTS!!
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And if it were that damn tough RG3 wouldn't have been riding the pine.
WSS
? RG3 was the 2nd pick of the draft and ROY. Clearly he showed some promise but at this point is a miss, drafting a 10+ year franchise QB is tough.
? RG3 was the 2nd pick of the draft and ROY. Clearly he showed some promise but at this point is a miss, drafting a 10+ year franchise QB is tough.
and you surely don't find one passing up QBs to take cornerbacks or defensive ends that may or may not convert to OLB. not specifically directed at you Bacon, just saying.
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Zombo said:
Duh.
Zombo
Well until McCown is cut/traded, I think he beats RG3 out personally. Also, Hue might have set up a competition between the rook and RG3, but this makes it seems like the rook will sit and learn regardless.
Well until McCown is cut/traded, I think he beats RG3 out personally. Also, Hue might have set up a competition between the rook and RG3, but this makes it seems like the rook will sit and learn regardless.
consider the source: cbs sports doesn't know any more than MKCabot. they are purely speculating McCown will be gone. and i agree, McCown > RG3 as far as football intelligence and exp. could be a close race depending on playcalling.
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and what if RG3 just still sucks and you don't pick the QB at #2?
shame. shame . shame on you FO. it would be unforgivable at this point of 23 QBs since '99 not to secure your future at that position.
Then you try to get the QB you take in round 2-3-4 to be as good or better than any expect. It happens.
Then you try to get the QB you take in round 2-3-4 to be as good or better than any expect. It happens.
can good QBs be found in late rounds consistently enough for it to be a viable strategy for finding the person known as the single most important player on the entire team?
remember we are talking about a billion dollar franchise here, one that should be expected to make sound, prudent, educated decisions and not gambling at that level correct? but it does seem as if they do, and may have to.
is it that franchise QBs can realistically be found later, or should those [couple few present-day actual legit franchise QBs] that were passed on and taken late just have been taken much, much sooner?
i dare anyone to try and name a single team in the NFL that--if given the advantage of hindsight--would NOT be willing to spend a 1st rd pick on Tom Brady or Russell Wilson. good luck w that.
in my opinion finding one late is definitely more exception than rule. "flukes" if you will.
here's reality: as noted, it's a billion dollar company predominantly hinging upon one position, yet so many of our fans, GMs, FO, Owners etc seem completely willing to be absolutely cheap and not truly invest in the position. then there's the issue w investing too much. both are detrimentally irresponsible.
for we suffering fans, after 25 plus QBs in the span of Peyton Manning's career (i think it might be 27 now?) you'd think you could rule out naivety or lack of realization by now as reasons why some aren't on board w drafting JG or CW and want D. maybe they aren't sold on them as franchise QBs. maybe their ideal and ultimate Browns team is seen through Ohio State glasses. who knows why but offseason disagreement is decent fun either way.
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I think it's more likely we go RG3/someone/rookie than RG3/rookie/someone.Zombo said:
They are all gone.
Gip, I love McCown too, but let me count the ways in which he is gone:
1. He's 37.
2. He's not Hue's guy.
3. We just replaced him with RG3
4. He counts $5 mil against the cap.
5. We can trade him for a late round pick to someone like the Jets and avoid the cap hit.
Shaw ... He's not NFL material, bye.
Davis ... I will give him a 5% chance, because Brown signed him to a friendly contract. But if he's not the guy that Hue wants to develop in the third slot, and I'm pretty sure he won't be ... gone.
Zombo
I think, given RG3's injury history and the luck that circles Cleveland QB's, they're going to want as much padding between #1 and rookie as possible - assuming they are buying full in on the "developing" a QB narrative.
It feels a lot like the Brees/Rivers SD situation to me. We have a talented QB, but we like a guy in this draft. We're going to build the team and still put us in a chance to win with RG3, while our rookie rides the pine behind an older, very experienced vet.
Next season, we'll cut the old vet and the rookie moves up to #2. RG3 will play for a contract extension here, but we have the bargaining chips because of the rookie. RG3 will play well, get injured, the rookie will take over and that will be it.
EXACTLY like SD.
I think it's more likely we go RG3/someone/rookie than RG3/rookie/someone.
I think, given RG3's injury history and the luck that circles Cleveland QB's, they're going to want as much padding between #1 and rookie as possible - assuming they are buying full in on the "developing" a QB narrative.
It feels a lot like the Brees/Rivers SD situation to me. We have a talented QB, but we like a guy in this draft. We're going to build the team and still put us in a chance to win with RG3, while our rookie rides the pine behind an older, very experienced vet.
Next season, we'll cut the old vet and the rookie moves up to #2. RG3 will play for a contract extension here, but we have the bargaining chips because of the rookie. RG3 will play well, get injured, the rookie will take over and that will be it.
EXACTLY like SD.
^^^ by far my favorite scenario, everybody wins.
...except Browns opponents. and perhaps McJosh. although Josh is still a winner in some ways, because like Cribbs (but on a different scale) he will likely forever garner respect from the Browns fanbase for bleeding for us and showing us his immense heart on the field and will be extended the honors we publicly bestow upon our Browns royalty.
something guys like Dilfer, Dorsey, Garcia, Quinn, Frye, Weeden, Wallace, Campbell etc will probably never experience.
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Hue stuck his neck out on this one. The focus has been on RG's "attitude". Even if it has improved, there is still a little matter of "aptitude" for the position.
All those three needed was yet another QB who can't complete a progression?
And that is the key point... RG's running masked his pass deficiencies his rookie year. Injury eliminated the running. The passing never developed.
I though you guys might find this read interesting. It has me leaning towards the Goff side of the fence.... I hope RG was studying defensive tendencies while he was sitting on the bench... More of the above.
http://craighoffman.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-talk-radio-hosts-guide-to-rgiii.html?m=1
There are parallels between the lines, but at least Wentz does not compound them with an over-sized ego... or an under-massed body...
here's hoping the game has slowed down significantly for RG3 and that Hue & Co take a personal interest in coaching him up/developing him further. the former cannot be understated and will hopefully be a difference-maker.Hue stuck his neck out on this one. The focus has been on RG's "attitude". Even if it has improved, there is still a little matter of "aptitude" for the position.
And that is the key point... RG's running masked his pass deficiencies his rookie year. Injury eliminated the running. The passing never developed.
steak without seasoning sucks as bad as virginal coitus. on paper RG3 should improve with age and exp. let's hope he stays healthy and his potential can finally be realized. this is not entitlement talking--but if anyone deserves it, seriously it has to be us.
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Gipper, looks like you're starting your bickering a little bit early? In six weeks or so we will know if Josh is still here or not. Whether or not it's the right move or whether or not anybody here wants to see it happen has no bearing on these guys.
If he's still here in May you can certainly do the superior dance.
Hardly worth arguing about something that hasn't happened yet.
WSS
Well, I only started it because others have concluded that dumping McCown is the way to go.....and getting some other unknown, perhaps totally inexperienced commodity to replace him. To me, that is far from ideal. I would prefer keeping someone that we know is reliable, steady, if not spectacular, than having no experience at all on our side beyond the fragile Griffin.
As for arguing about something that hasn't happened yet.....that is what we do on here. All day, every day. That is why we do a mock draft.....and have Camp this guy or Camp that guy. It is all argument about something that hasn't happened yet.
Well, I only started it because others have concluded that dumping McCown is the way to go.....and getting some other unknown, perhaps totally inexperienced commodity to replace him. To me, that is far from ideal. I would prefer keeping someone that we know is reliable, steady, if not spectacular, than having no experience at all on our side beyond the fragile Griffin.
i agree Gipper.
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Of course that's what happened. Ok, maybe Hue is the sweetest talking man on the planet, but I'll stick to no one else wanted him as a starter.While i like RG3 and i wanna see how he does with Flash Gordan, Barnidge, and whoever we draft it could be nice, but im a little weary that rg3 signed with us because no one else would give him a starting chance lil scary.
Of course that's what happened. Ok, maybe Hue is the sweetest talking man on the planet, but I'll stick to no one else wanted him as a starter.
a silver lining is that for some people rejection is great fuel for success. doubt is the only way to bring out that "i'll show you!" fire in a person.
would be great if RG3 has that fire in him.
success is a healthy revenge.
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Of course that's what happened. Ok, maybe Hue is the sweetest talking man on the planet, but I'll stick to no one else wanted him as a starter.
yeah, this is a headscratcher indeed....they are saying rg3 is just going to be a bridge qb and will be looking to latch on with someone else eventually...why do we have to showcase this guy for other teams and pay him...jeeeez, this fo just constantly fucks up...draft the qb at number 2 and let him play..wentz looks like he has the tools...at least he has not had 2 knee surguries either...if jackson is this incredible coach that knows how to groom qb's, then groom the kid hue and let mccown the backup...he can pitch in also...this is just nuts....
yeah, this is a headscratcher indeed....they are saying rg3 is just going to be a bridge qb and will be looking to latch on with someone else eventually...why do we have to showcase this guy for other teams and pay him...jeeeez, this fo just constantly fucks up...draft the qb at number 2 and let him play..wentz looks like he has the tools...at least he has not had 2 knee surguries either...if jackson is this incredible coach that knows how to groom qb's, then groom the kid hue and let mccown the backup...he can pitch in also...this is just nuts....
most guys play their best ball in contract years. maybe we'll get lucky and either get high level play out of him or even better yet strike gold and end up retaining him. or plan B w a rookie. or plan C which is me simply hoping this billion $$ company actually has a plan C.
if they draft a QB i suspect you will probably like this affordable incentive-driven signing a little bit more.
although we hope one of them can be our franchise guy, we aren't roped over a barrel and entirely committed to either one.
nothing to lose, everything to gain.
i like having contingencies, options, and cushion/insurance. personally i'm satisfied thus far.
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